Fresh Textbook Thread...

[TIDE-HSV]

Since many late entrants are only reading the last couple of pages, a fresh start will allow us to determine how many pages exist and which one we read last...

 

[BigEasyTider]

To answer a question raised in the previous thread, comparing us to Ball State:

• We had basically the exact same system as Ball State did

• The Ball State violations were much more widespread (89), and the total monetary value involved was much higher

• Ball State discovered the violations themselves, but drug their feet a bit in self-reporting, while we reported immediately and began the investigation

• Ball State also got in some trouble for some softball violations in their situation, and there were also accusations outstanding against the men's basketball coaches for NCAA rules violations (that was a separate matter)

• Ball State was charged with lack of institutional control and failure to monitor, where as we only got failure to monitor

• We are a repeat offender, but to my knowledge Ball State was not

When you put it all together, what we did was far less egregious than what Ball State did, so accordingly our sanctions should be far less than what they received. That might not work out that way, but that is how it should go. The repeat offender label could hurt us, but everything else is clearly going in our favor relative to Ball State.

On the note, the repeat offender label doesn't necessarily mean anything. It lays out some punishments that will result, but it's only a presumption, and the NCAA can overcome it by just allowing your case to be an exception. It's nothing like a binding precedent that requires the NCAA to act in a certain way.

We'll just have to see how it plays out. I'm not too worried about this though, when you put it all together there are just no major worries. We might get a little probation and lose a couple of scholarships, but nothing that will slow the juggernaut that Coach Saban is building.

The real concern is not now, it's what happens in the probationary window moving forward. If something new arises then, we're suddenly right back on the brink...

 

[drjohn432]

Just anxious

 

[TIDE-HSV]

You're honest...

 

[GrayTide]

Since I do not understand how all of this could have happened and because we have no control over the outcome I am taking a "no further comment" stance. I just hope a decision is rendered quickly which is probably wishful thinking.

 

[tidefan23]

To answer a question raised in the previous thread, comparing us to Ball State:

• Ball State discovered the violations themselves, but drug their feet a bit in self-reporting, while we reported immediately and began the investigation

I thought someone posted in the other thread that we didn't report right away as well.

Get rid of the two players that are still on the team and there's two of the scholys.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

If so, that's not accurate. We reported promptly. Ball St. didn't, if that's what you're thinking about. We used the "student privacy" defense to parry FOIs from the press over the last several months to keep it out of the press, but the NCAA has been kept apprised...

 

[Drewy26]

I thought someone posted in the other thread that we didn't report right away as well.

Get rid of the two players that are still on the team and there's two of the scholys.

The discrepancy was discovered on a Wednesday. Five football players were suspended for that Saturday's game (a HUGE rivalry game against UT.)

NCAA/SEC was notified on Thursday. NCAA enforcement staff were on campus before the week was out.

If that's not "reporting right away," then I don't know what is.

 

[Tider n LA]

To answer a question raised in the previous thread, comparing us to Ball State:

• We had basically the exact same system as Ball State did

• The Ball State violations were much more widespread (89), and the total monetary value involved was much higher

• Ball State discovered the violations themselves, but drug their feet a bit in self-reporting, while we reported immediately and began the investigation

• Ball State also got in some trouble for some softball violations in their situation, and there were also accusations outstanding against the men's basketball coaches for NCAA rules violations (that was a separate matter)

• Ball State was charged with lack of institutional control and failure to monitor, where as we only got failure to monitor

• We are a repeat offender, but to my knowledge Ball State was not

When you put it all together, what we did was far less egregious than what Ball State did, so accordingly our sanctions should be far less than what they received. That might not work out that way, but that is how it should go. The repeat offender label could hurt us, but everything else is clearly going in our favor relative to Ball State.

On the note, the repeat offender label doesn't necessarily mean anything. It lays out some punishments that will result, but it's only a presumption, and the NCAA can overcome it by just allowing your case to be an exception. It's nothing like a binding precedent that requires the NCAA to act in a certain way.

We'll just have to see how it plays out. I'm not too worried about this though, when you put it all together there are just no major worries. We might get a little probation and lose a couple of scholarships, but nothing that will slow the juggernaut that Coach Saban is building.

The real concern is not now, it's what happens in the probationary window moving forward. If something new arises then, we're suddenly right back on the brink...

You have a good assessment of the situation. The bad part is the ncaa are bias and they don't like Bama. They may be digging deeper than just textbooks and I hope I am wrong there. UA did withhold info to the media and that was wrong. I became a tidepride member in Shula's last season when they sucked, now there is a waiting list but if the ncaa slams us, which wouldn't surprise me, and Saben says screw this, I bet that list goes away. I hope they get off light but there is something about this I don't like.

 

[TommyMac]

One thing's for dang sure, we need to go over every facet of our athletic programs to ensure that we aren't caught with our pants down again.

 

[Tider n LA]

One thing's for dang sure, we need to go over every facet of our athletic programs to ensure that we aren't caught with our pants down again.

Mal Moore needs to go and the guy who is suppose to replace him was at FSU and look what happened to them yesterday. UA needs to clean house as far as the administration at the top of the AD.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Mal "went" a long time ago, in the sense of handling the running of the AD. Hart has been doing that almost since he came on board. And I hear you on Hart. The last time we hired a guy who'd left an NCAA mess behind him, his name was "Bockrath."

 

[BigAl5833]

What kind of probation would we possibly be looking at? No Bowl Games, Tv, or something else?

 

[TIDE-HSV]

What's expected is just an elongation of the repeat "window," not a ban on TV or post-season. That type of punishment has never been meted out for this type of "FTM." To add a couple of positives to all the negatives previous posters have dug up - on the last probation, the NCAA made it abundantly clear that we were being punished for other infractions they felt we'd committed, but which they were choosing not to allege. BTW, this was accurate on their part. I knew of some of the violations personally, and some of them were pretty bad. The other factor is that members of the COI said later that the punishment was a mistake, in that the damage inflicted was far, far worse than they had intended. Does this help us now? Dunno...

 

[rolltidescott]

Mal "went" a long time ago, in the sense of handling the running of the AD. Hart has been doing that almost since he came on board. And I hear you on Hart. The last time we hired a guy who'd left an NCAA mess behind him, his name was "Bockrath."

TIDE-HSV, do you think that Hart's presence at Bama will cause the NZAA to keep a more 'watchful' eye on Bama and to potentially react 'stronger' should anything come up in the future?

I guess what I'm trying to ask is, does Hart represent an increased risk for Bama with the NZAA?

 

[4Q Basket Case]

All things considered, I really don't think punishment for this offense will be material -- a couple of scholarships at most, plus some bad publicity and catcalls from the eastern part of the state. No big deal there.

But I do expect the repeat violator window to be lengthened. That's a real potential problem, and dang scary. If any idiot out there does anything idiotic, no matter how little control we have over them, how many times the AD has warned the whole world, we could be in major major trouble.

In my experience, a single moron can overcome any rule, system, procedure or policy anyone can implement, and that's our vulnerability.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I guess what I'm trying to ask is, does Hart represent an increased risk for Bama with the NZAA?

I'm not going to lie and say that it doesn't cause me any concern at all. And, Shelby, right above, is correct. That's my biggest concern also - we can't control the universe, but we're put into the position of having to do just that...

 

[Crimson Surfer]

UA releases 160 pages detailing its response to NCAA

The NCAA found “potential for major violations” in the University of Alabama’s student-athlete textbook scandal and Alabama’s response “substantially admits that the infractions occurred,” according to documents released by UA on Thursday.

Alabama released more than 160 pages of documents detailing its investigation into the textbook distribution case that surfaced in the fall of 2007 and resulted in the suspension of five football players — including lineman Antoine Caldwell and running back Glen Coffee — for four games in the 2007 season.

 

[derek4tide]

I'm not going to lie and say that it doesn't cause me any concern at all. And, Shelby, right above, is correct. That's my biggest concern also - we can't control the universe, but we're put into the position of having to do just that...

Does this action by the ncaa give cause for the BOT to look at their options concerning Hart's tenure?

 

[bobmack12champs]

You have a good assessment of the situation. The bad part is the ncaa are bias and they don't like Bama. They may be digging deeper than just textbooks and I hope I am wrong there. UA did withhold info to the media and that was wrong. I became a tidepride member in Shula's last season when they sucked, now there is a waiting list but if the ncaa slams us, which wouldn't surprise me, and Saben says screw this, I bet that list goes away. I hope they get off light but there is something about this I don't like.

Normally, I don't respond to threads, but until we have the final word, there's not a thing we can do or say that will change anything.
As far as witholding info from the media, I could care less about the Birmingham news (Kevin Scarbinsky)in particular.Even Cecil Hurt,( an Alabama beat writer whom I respect). Then you have Paul Finebaum, a radio talk show host that milked it for all it was worth: will keep doing so until the last hour.

I said all of that to say this, if witholding info from the above mentioned is wrong, then so be it.They (the above mentioned minus Cecil) never wrote or said anything positive about the Tide in the previous sanctions.
After Finebaum ran it into the ground (this latest) quite a few callers were from war egle country.

bobmack