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Is Tennessee In the Ascendancy?

WishIwasInBama said:
I think this game will be alot like the LSU game is in terms of recruiting. We go hard with all the moblie/La guys with LSU and I think we will go hard with UT for the Georgia kids much in the same way
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Richt closed off Georgia kids to UT long ago. Berry was a legacy and the two they got from GA last year weren't recruited by UGA.

Once Richt, Meyer and Saban showed up on the scene (especially Richt) UT's talent took a huge nosedive.
 
deliveryman35 said:
I've noticed here, and in other posts, your supreme confidence that Lane is going to fail in the long term. What have you seen so far that makes you so sure of that?
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He's got the same look as CMS on the sidelines. I don't see many "mamma's and Papa's" letting their kids play for a "nimrod"! Would you trust him with your kids? I don't see the return of UT under CLK.
 
One thing I've learned about football is moral victories don't go very far. Bama fans have well learned that lesson. There's no such thing as a "good loss" and has no indication what kind of team you'll have "next season".

The Vol fans are excited because they see something better than they did last season. They are taking the "things they see better" and are extrapolating that into some sort of great success in the near future.
 
deliveryman35 said:
I don't want to make any more out of yesterday's game than what it's worth, but I was really taken aback by just how tough they played us. Let's face it, there's a disparity in talent between our two teams and you can't tell me our guys had trouble getting up for our most natural, border rivalry game. This, of course, is not a new phenomenon. In 1966 when we arguably had our best Bryant-coached team ever we beat them in even a closer game(11-10) as yesterday. But, with the strides that they are making in recruiting, and the coaches that Lane has surrounded himself with, I'm just wondering if we got a glimpse of the future yesterday. Most people think once Tebow is gone that Urban Meyer may start looking for greener pastures(whether he wants to or not), that would obviously leave a vacuum for either UT or UGA to fill. Right now my money is on the vols....what's your opinion?
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I can see a lot of improvement since the season started. I feel better about Kiffin now than before. He wasn't my first choice but I'm beginning to believe in this staff and what they are trying to do. Recruiting so far, is looking good. The team seems to be playing hard even in the tough losses. They don't quit and any so-called football expert likes that. The team as a whole has stayed out of the off-season trouble so far. They are pushed in the classroom by Kiffin and crew. Monty sure hasn't disappointed anyone working the defense and is really liked by a lot of folks. Crompton is playing a lot better at the most important position on the team. Kiffin has stated he wants his team to be like your Bama team by being tough and physical. I know Kiffin has more respect for Bama than Fla.
As for the Bama-Tn. rivalry, I want both teams to be at their best when they play each year unlike the last few years. I want to get excited with a big win over Bama when we win and when we lose I want to be down for a day and then forget about it and not whine all year over excuses and name-calling. I want this rivalry to be what it used to be, "The Third Saturday of October".
Who knows how we will be in the next few years but I like what I am seeing even though we are 3-4.
 
deliveryman35 said:
I don't want to make any more out of yesterday's game than what it's worth, but I was really taken aback by just how tough they played us
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South Carolina played us tough too. Are they in "the ascendancy" too?

All we have to do is look at how well Shula and Franchoine seemed to do their first year and then contrast that to their actual head coaching ability. How about Charlie Weis at Notre Dame?

This isn't General Neyland's SEC anymore.
 
They'll have a little success but for the most part I think they have a snot-nosed version of Mike Shula, right down to the trophy wife. One of these sense of entitlement child of a pro coach kids who gets by on name alone. He'll do okay but when he can't win the big games, UT will look elsewhere. And Fran will be available. Heh.

When I listen to Kiffin I can't help but think of that episode of Seinfeld with the "bad breaker-upper" guy. He'll either learn to change or he'll be gone. Simple as that.
 
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JessN said:
You can write this one in blood: Barring some kind of major-league scandal and/or a nuclear bomb going off in Alachua County, Florida is going nowhere no matter what Meyer does.

They won't make the same mistake again with a Zook-like guy. They and UA have each learned their respective lessons. If Meyer leaves after this year, they'll have a list of no fewer than 50 very competent head coaches who would come running for the chance to coach at that school. It literally recruits itself.

Even Coach Bryant knew it -- he saw UF as a sleeping giant many decades ago. Well, the giant is awake and it's not going back to sleep.

UT could get itself strong enough where it, UGA and UF took turns representing the division, but Florida can't be pushed out of the picture. Tennessee can be for the simple reason that it can't sustain its program with Tennessee-based recruits. The state of Tennessee might put out 15-20 guys a year that can play SEC ball; the state of Florida puts out 150 or more.

What will hamper Tennessee from this point forward is being surrounded by other great recruiters. Financial and insurance guys call it a "competitive market." For Tennessee, the four main threats are Saban, Richt, Butch Davis at UNC and Dabo Swinney at Clemson. Al Groh at UVA has also been a thorn in their sides. I feel one of the reasons they nabbed Kiffin was that he was familiar with recruiting Texas and California from his USC days and could help get some of those guys to come to Knoxville.

Point being, UT has the steepest ladder of the three main SEC East schools to climb. I'm not saying it's impossible, but there will never again be a day in our lives where Tennessee is the unquestioned year-in, year-out leader in the SEC East and UGA and UF are fighting for scraps.
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Jess, you make some good points, but I think it's already factored in that UT relies on a national recruiting strategy. It's always been that way for them.

I'm not saying that UF is going to go the way of Vanderbilt, but I don't see them keeping their stranglehold on the East anymore after this year. With the development of the South Florida program and the resurgence of Miami, and factor in Nick and other guys now successfully raiding the state for talent, I see the talent pool for Florida to draw upon becoming greatly diluted. Couple that with Georgia trending downward with Mark Richt, and I see an opening for UT over in that division, if they continue to recruit well and keep a good staff in tact. That's all I am saying....
 
When you look at his staff, would you want any of them coaching at BAMA? (And yes I'm aware Thompson used to be at BAMA. That is a burned bridge.)
Are they better than what we have? Better than Meyers staff? Better than LSU's staff? Would YOU want Kiffin as a head coach? Is he good enough to coach BAMA or UF or LSU? No.

I'd venture a guess that Monte might be the only one any of their rival fans would have respect for and would even want. Just a thought.
 
Crimson Cat said:
When you look at his staff, would you want any of them coaching at BAMA? (And yes I'm aware Thompson used to be at BAMA. That is a burned bridge.)
Are they better than what we have? Better than Meyers staff? Better than LSU's staff? Would YOU want Kiffin as a head coach? Is he good enough to coach BAMA or UF or LSU? No.

I'd venture a guess that Monte might be the only one any of their rival fans would have respect for and would even want. Just a thought.
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Minus him as a head Coach Orgeron is a pretty good recruiter and D-line coach. I wouldn't trade him for anybody on this staff but if there was an opening I wouldn't be up in arms if we hired him
 
JessN said:
You can write this one in blood: Barring some kind of major-league scandal and/or a nuclear bomb going off in Alachua County, Florida is going nowhere no matter what Meyer does.

They won't make the same mistake again with a Zook-like guy. They and UA have each learned their respective lessons. If Meyer leaves after this year, they'll have a list of no fewer than 50 very competent head coaches who would come running for the chance to coach at that school. It literally recruits itself.

Even Coach Bryant knew it -- he saw UF as a sleeping giant many decades ago. Well, the giant is awake and it's not going back to sleep.

UT could get itself strong enough where it, UGA and UF took turns representing the division, but Florida can't be pushed out of the picture. Tennessee can be for the simple reason that it can't sustain its program with Tennessee-based recruits. The state of Tennessee might put out 15-20 guys a year that can play SEC ball; the state of Florida puts out 150 or more.

What will hamper Tennessee from this point forward is being surrounded by other great recruiters. Financial and insurance guys call it a "competitive market." For Tennessee, the four main threats are Saban, Richt, Butch Davis at UNC and Dabo Swinney at Clemson. Al Groh at UVA has also been a thorn in their sides. I feel one of the reasons they nabbed Kiffin was that he was familiar with recruiting Texas and California from his USC days and could help get some of those guys to come to Knoxville.

Point being, UT has the steepest ladder of the three main SEC East schools to climb. I'm not saying it's impossible, but there will never again be a day in our lives where Tennessee is the unquestioned year-in, year-out leader in the SEC East and UGA and UF are fighting for scraps.
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Well, you certanly saved me a lot of writing. Jess is correct in that TN just doesn't put out Div I recruits, for whatever reason. With a much smaller population, MS puts out more than twice as many. They have to recruit regionally/nationally, or die. It will be interesting to see if they can maintain the broader base when the novelty factor of "infant terrible/senior citizen" has worn off. As Jess as noted, the backyard ain't gonna be that easy any more. UF, OTOH, simply has a downhill coast every year in recruiting. They don't even have to break a sweat to break the top five. Saturday proved nothing at all for the long term. He's got Fulmer's recruits at the moment. Saban took a team made up of Shula recruits, some with a bad attitude, and precocious freshmen and cobbled together an undefeated regular season. Let's see how close Lane can come to that...
 
deliveryman35 said:
Jess, you make some good points, but I think it's already factored in that UT relies on a national recruiting strategy. It's always been that way for them.
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But in the past, their national recruiting strategy depending heavily on cherry picking Georgia, Alabama and Florida for the very top recruits. They can't depend on that anymore - now they have to settle on the left overs.
 
WishIwasInBama said:
Minus him as a head Coach Orgeron is a pretty good recruiter and D-line coach. I wouldn't trade him for anybody on this staff but if there was an opening I wouldn't be up in arms if we hired him
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See, I wouldn't. Too much stuff happened with Ogre at OleMiss. Good recruiter or not.
 
deliveryman35 said:
Jess, you make some good points, but I think it's already factored in that UT relies on a national recruiting strategy. It's always been that way for them.

I'm not saying that UF is going to go the way of Vanderbilt, but I don't see them keeping their stranglehold on the East anymore after this year. With the development of the South Florida program and the resurgence of Miami, and factor in Nick and other guys now successfully raiding the state for talent, I see the talent pool for Florida to draw upon becoming greatly diluted. Couple that with Georgia trending downward with Mark Richt, and I see an opening for UT over in that division, if they continue to recruit well and keep a good staff in tact. That's all I am saying....
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I don't think you do really realize the depth of the Florida talent pool. Even with the "raiding," there will be enough FL kids who want to play for the state flagship to make UF the most talented SEC team on into the future. That's what I expect...
 
pcolatide said:
Florida actually has a very small talent pool to draw from!! Urban has said they only recruit the top 1% of the top 1%. That's not a whole lot of folks to pick from. :)
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But then you have FSU and Miami to compete with for the other 99%.
 
TIDE-HSV said:
I don't think you do really realize the depth of the Florida talent pool. Even with the "raiding," there will be enough FL kids who want to play for the state flagship to make UF the most talented SEC team on into the future. That's what I expect...
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It's deep, no doubt about it. Only Texas compares in per capita talent output each year.

I just think it will be interesting to see how the next couple of years play out. I'm no soothesayer, but I can remember betting on Urban Meyer back in '05 on this board with my"back up the truck and load up with UM stock" rant and some of these same posters(some MOD's included) wanted to run me out on a rail as crazy because supposedly he didn't know what he was getting into and that we would all in the SEC wipe the floor with him. Some of our friends here(some being the same posters as before) would have you think that Tennessee isn't going anywhere and that they have virtually no chance with their current coaching staff to rebuild their program. They could be right. I hope they are. But,...we'll see;)
 
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