News Article: Kentucky Clerk Is Due In Federal Court For Contempt Hearing

[Tide1986]

Holidays are not "enforced" so this is an absurd example.

I generally agree, but I will note that the closure of government offices on a holiday can be construed as a form of enforcement.

 

[cbi1972]

If my example is so absurd, then US servicemen and women must not be US citizens and donot deserve equal rights because that is exactly what happens on Bagram Air Field in the time of Ramadan. That order is not an Afghani order, not a made up military order, but an order that comes straight from Pennsylvania Ave in Washington DC.

The US military makes considerations for Muslim troops during Ramadan, but there is no way they force everyone to observe Islamic tradition.

 

[81usaf92]

The US military makes considerations for Muslim troops during Ramadan, but there is no way they force everyone to observe Islamic tradition.

Then why aren't american troops practicing it in bases in turkey which is primarily a traditional Muslim country or how bout bases in Saudi Arabia? I was in Afghanistan in 2010 and 13, and in 2010 we didn't practice Ramadan and that is 9 years into the war , but we have to do it 3 years later. Makes no sense except the government is picking and choosing of what breaks or doesn't break constitutional standards.

 

[Jon]

If my example is so absurd, then US servicemen and women must not be US citizens and donot deserve equal rights because that is exactly what happens on Bagram Air Field in the time of Ramadan. That order is not an Afghani order, not a made up military order, but an order that comes straight from Pennsylvania Ave in Washington DC.

I googled this and all I can find is the military making considerations for Muslim troops during Ramadan which I am fine with, just as they should make considerations for Passover for jewish soldiers and yule for pagans. Do you have information that shows the US Military making all soldiers observe Ramadan? I'd have a problem with that

 

[Jon]

Then why aren't american troops practicing it in bases in turkey which is primarily a traditional Muslim country or how bout bases in Saudi Arabia? I was in Afghanistan in 2010 and 13, and in 2010 we didn't practice Ramadan and that is 9 years into the war , but we have to do it 3 years later. Makes no sense except the government is picking and choosing of what breaks or doesn't break constitutional standards.

they made you fast from sunup to sunset?

 

[cbi1972]

Then why aren't american troops practicing it in bases in turkey which is primarily a traditional Muslim country or how bout bases in Saudi Arabia? I was in Afghanistan in 2010 and 13, and in 2010 we didn't practice Ramadan and that is 9 years into the war , but we have to do it 3 years later. Makes no sense except the government is picking and choosing of what breaks or doesn't break constitutional standards.

U.S. military makes Ramadan considerations for Muslim troops
Bagram hosts Eid al Fitr dinner, celebrates Ramadan

Date Posted: 09.15.2010 08:33
Location: BAGRAM AIR FIELD, **

BAGRAM AIR FIELD, Afghanistan – Service members at Bagram Air Field hosted an Eid al Fitr (eed) feast here Sept. 14 marking the end of Ramadan.

The governors of the 14 provinces that make up Regional Command-East attended the dinner along with senior Afghan military representatives, RC-East Commander U.S. Army Maj. Gen. John Campbell, and U.S. Senior Civilian Tom Gibbons.

After a social hour and music played by the Gul Zaman Band, the attendees listened to excerpts from the Quran and a few short speeches before dinner was served.

At the end of the dinner, Campbell presented the Afghan military representatives awards and medals showing International Security Assistance Forces appreciation for their devotion to their country.

In the end, governors left with a framed gift from Campbell and a book of Afghan poetry.

This seems less about enforcing constitutional standards than it is attempting to get along with locals.

What exactly were you forced to do?

 

[81usaf92]

U.S. military makes Ramadan considerations for Muslim troops
Bagram hosts Eid al Fitr dinner, celebrates Ramadan


This seems less about enforcing constitutional standards than it is attempting to get along with locals.

What exactly were you forced to do?

Ok so because I can't drink water in public because of Ramadan isn't violating my constitutional right? This rule comes atleast 9 years after the war and isn't enforced in Saudi Arabia so I think that is a violation and a health risk for Americans who aren't acclimated to the conditions surrounded by an enemy that is we had to go to seperate sides of the base to even get a glass of water while on duty. So the news report doesn't tell the whole story

 

[Jon]

Ok so because I can't drink water in public because of Ramadan isn't violating my constitutional right? This rule comes atleast 9 years after the war and isn't enforced in Saudi Arabia so I think that is a violation and a health risk for Americans who aren't acclimated to the conditions surrounded by an enemy that is we had to go to seperate sides of the base to even get a glass of water while on duty. So the news report doesn't tell the whole story

what exactly where you forced to do? He asked once and I'll ask again

 

[seebell]

If my example is so absurd, then US servicemen and women must not be US citizens and donot deserve equal rights because that is exactly what happens on Bagram Air Field in the time of Ramadan. That order is not an Afghani order, not a made up military order, but an order that comes straight from Pennsylvania Ave in Washington DC.

Are you sure of that?

http://www.stripes.com/news/middle-east/us-personnel-in-bahrain-prepare-for-ramadan-1.290721

http://www.stripes.com/news/middle-east/troops-in-mideast-given-guidance-on-ramadan-1.150254

While NATO troops in the field across Afghanistan are not restricted from eating, drinking or smoking outside the wire, they are made aware of the holiday, according to Air Force Maj. Deb Balentine, a spokesman for the coalition’s International Security Assistance Force.
Troops are encouraged to be sensitive to the importance of fasting and not to eat or drink in front of Afghan citizens, she said.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/ramadan.asp

Such claims were based on a single article from the military publication Stars and Stripes which has been greatly exaggerated in the telling. What that article actually reported is that some U.S. military personnel in Bahrain have been briefed about the significance of Ramadan, Navy personnel there have been ordered to dress more conservatively while off-base during that month, and troops have been reminded that activities such as eating, drinking, and smoking in public in the daytime during the month of Ramadan is a violation of local law (and as with other local laws, they can be detained by authorities for breaking them):

Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/ramadan.asp#ViEuR734UrT6t7ss.99


Of course Obama is a Muslim so he may have ordered our troops to obey Sharia law.

 

[92tide]

Are you sure of that?

http://www.stripes.com/news/middle-east/us-personnel-in-bahrain-prepare-for-ramadan-1.290721

http://www.stripes.com/news/middle-east/troops-in-mideast-given-guidance-on-ramadan-1.150254

While NATO troops in the field across Afghanistan are not restricted from eating, drinking or smoking outside the wire, they are made aware of the holiday, according to Air Force Maj. Deb Balentine, a spokesman for the coalition’s International Security Assistance Force.
Troops are encouraged to be sensitive to the importance of fasting and not to eat or drink in front of Afghan citizens, she said.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/ramadan.asp

Such claims were based on a single article from the military publication Stars and Stripes which has been greatly exaggerated in the telling. What that article actually reported is that some U.S. military personnel in Bahrain have been briefed about the significance of Ramadan, Navy personnel there have been ordered to dress more conservatively while off-base during that month, and troops have been reminded that activities such as eating, drinking, and smoking in public in the daytime during the month of Ramadan is a violation of local law (and as with other local laws, they can be detained by authorities for breaking them):

Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/ramadan.asp#ViEuR734UrT6t7ss.99


Of course Obama is a Muslim so he may have ordered our troops to obey Sharia law.

this faux outrage was pretty well covered a few months back iirc

 

[TRUTIDE]

In both examples you have the Government or one of it's agents (Davis) trying to impose their religion on others which is exactly and specifically what the first amendment was designed to prevent.

Here we go...we have gone from Kim Davis was breaking the law to her imposing her religion on everybody else. What about her rights? You have no tolerance for Christians, do you? The LGBT will not stop until all people that oppose your lifestyle are run out of business, thrown in jail or submit. This was never just about getting a special right and to be able to love a partner. It is about changing the culture to make the other 97% of the country fully believe that the homosexual lifestyle is moral an normal. I know that all homosexuals are not like this. The couples I know would rather just do their thing and be left alone. For others, there will never be any real satisfaction. The never ending battle.

 

[81usaf92]

what exactly where you forced to do? He asked once and I'll ask again

For the whole month of Ramadan soldiers on the base can only consume water and food in approved buildings because all of the sudden they feel it offends afghanis. This may seem like a good compromise but take into account the weight of the gear of your average american gi and the extreme weather then you will find it is a health and safety risk for those working gates and towers. All because of a religious holiday. For all y'all that say it is overblown, I'm telling you I have lived it so I know first hand of what goes on at baf. Unless it changed since 2013 that is.

As for local afghan law... We have known about Ramadan for forever so why all of the sudden change the us customs after atleast 10 years. Also why do bases in turkey and saidi not abide by those local laws pertaining to Muslim customs

 

[Jon]

Here we go...we have gone from Kim Davis was breaking the law to her imposing her religion on everybody else. What about her rights? You have no tolerance for Christians, do you? The LGBT will not stop until all people that oppose your lifestyle are run out of business, thrown in jail or submit. This was never just about getting a special right and to be able to love a partner. It is about changing the culture to make the other 97% of the country fully believe that the homosexual lifestyle is moral an normal. I know that all homosexuals are not like this. The couples I know would rather just do their thing and be left alone. For others, there will never be any real satisfaction. The never ending battle.

someone else answered this far better than I could so the image below(from reddit)

And I have plenty of tolerance for Christians, heck I married one

 

[81usaf92]

someone else answered this far better than I could so the image below(from reddit)

And I have plenty of tolerance for Christians, heck I married one

Agree for the record of the meat of the thread ( Kim Davis )

 

[NationalTitles18]

Again, you can argue from that point of view because you know the outcome 40 something years later. Booker T's compromise was rejected by the NAACP because people like Dubois blasted because they believed in all rights now, and most of the NAACP and African Americans didn't strongly follow the separate but equal ideals. The whole idea of separate but equal was to slowly but methodically integrate blacks into US society and be accepted as first class citizens after enough people woke up. Dubois constantly badgering the courts and turning to communist and extreme socialists views created radical paranoia that made politicans and your everyday citizen buy into the beliefs of the KKK and the Aryan brotherhood. It also didn't help that it created equally radical groups on the African American side such as the Nation of Islam and Black Panthers that where paranoid that African American rights were not going to happen without force. Thank God, or whatever you believe, that MLK had a non violent group that broke through the chaos. Im not saying separate but equal would've worked, or worked better, but more or less we really don't know because the NAACP never backed it after Booker T helped with the Atlanta conference, but I can point out that DADT actually made the military more aware of gays and less against the repeal and less opposed to the gays than the civilian community on the issue.

As far as the constitution, the vagueness of amendments prior to the 20th century can be interpreted a multitude of ways depending on who is reading them. The 1st and 2nd are good examples. Also what constitutes as a speedy trial. I guess someone could argue that they believe a speedy trial should be a week after their alledged crime.

No, I can argue that because 1. I am right, and 2. It was what should have been done.

 

[Tide1986]

this faux outrage was pretty well covered a few months back iirc

I feel no particular outrage, but I will note that an employer in the U.S. that discriminates on the basis of religion might be in trouble. So, if a soldier in Afghanistan ignored the so-called "education" and ate or drank on base in front of Muslim soldiers and was later denied promotion or otherwise punished for doing so, the soldier might have a valid claim of having his constitutional rights violated.

 

[81usaf92]

No, I can argue that because 1. I am right, and 2. It was what should have been done.

What exactly are you arguing because we both say civil rights should happen?

 

[Tide1986]

Here is a hypothetical opinion -- one that Justice Kennedy might write -- for a set of hypothetical cases before the Supreme Court involving situations like that of Kim Davis:

No human system is more profound than religion, for it embodies the highest ideals of spirit, love, fidelity, devotion, sacrifice, peace, unity, community, and good. In becoming one with a religion, people become something greater than once they were. As some of the petitioners in these cases demonstrate, religion even transcends death. It would misunderstand these men and women to say they disrespect the ideals of religion. Their plea is that they do respect them, respect them so deeply that they seek to find their fulfillment for themselves. Their hope is not to be condemned to live in the shadows, excluded from public life, but to live as one with their religion in all aspects of their lives. They ask for equal dignity in the eyes of the law. The Constitution grants them that right.

 

[Jon]

Here is a hypothetical opinion -- one that Justice Kennedy might write -- for a set of hypothetical cases before the Supreme Court involving situations like that of Kim Davis:

so you ctrl R the word marriage and enter the word religion and this is going to prove something? Next.....

oh and the courts have already denied to hear Davis's case.

 

[TRUTIDE]

Here is a hypothetical opinion -- one that Justice Kennedy might write -- for a set of hypothetical cases before the Supreme Court involving situations like that of Kim Davis:

I have had many many dealings with public employees over a life time. Not many of them display a sense of urgency in what they do. One can easily spend a full day at a DMV office just to renew a driver's license. I have also spent time at private establishments and had bad experiences at all levels. When I figure out that one place is bad, I go find another location to meet my needs. If I were to have trouble with a particular caterer, florist or restaurant, I may express my dissatisfaction but I then go and find one to my liking. If I would have had trouble getting a marriage license at one location, I would have gone to another location as any other couple in love would do. LGBT do not think this way. They demand everyone think the way they think or they want to destroy you. This was the case before the latest ruling. LGBT can not be satisfied with being given a special right to marry others of the same sex, they want people who disagree with them punished. This may seem like some othe religions out there that persecute non believers, but it certainly is not representative of Christianity.