OC and DC replacement discussion

[mlh]

This year, no matter where you lined up the edge guys, they attacked the QB very aggressively. Given their speed and athleticism, they totally played themselves out of any chance of containing the edge. Alabama had zero edge discipline this year, and very little last year.

IMO, the attempt to use very different cats in Anderson and Turner wrecked the defense instead of making it better. Offenses simply attacked where they would be lined up, knowing that there would be a hole there less than one second after the snap of the ball without needing to commit a blocker to that spot to make it happen.

 

[westide]

Lord , please let the rumors be true!

 

[NoNC4Tubs]

Regarding UGA vs Bama's D. They run the "same defense" in a lot of ways, but in reality they don't do a lot of the same stuff. Some of that is due to personnel, some is due to playcalling (which may hindered/helped by personnel).

Here are some examples.

Bama vs. UT . It's 1st and 10. Bama has 2 defensive linemen in the game, plus Will Anderson lined up as defensive end to rush. Bama has 2 linebackers (not counting Anderson who isn't being used as an LB) and 6 DBs (i.e. a dime package). They are set up to defend the pass even though it's 1st and 10 and they could easily run it.

Tennessee is in shotgun with a RB next to the QB and 4 WRs split out wide.

Bama has Kool Aid on the line against a WR and Hellams 10 yards back on their best WR Hyatt.

View attachment 30394

When the ball is snapped Bama rushes 3 and drops 8 into coverage. The Vols run a play action pass that the LBs don't really bite on. There is no pressure on Hooker because they have 5 guys blocking the 3 rushers. Hooker waits for Hyatt to get open and then throws a rainbow to a wide open receiver for a TD. Snap to release is 3.1 seconds.

Same sort of situation for UGA vs UT in their game.

UT lines up in almost exactly the same formation as the play above. It's 3rd and 6. It's a passing down.


View attachment 30397

UGA, though, has a different defensive call. They have 3 actual defensive linemen in the game (300lb Jalen Carter, 320lb Nazir Stackhouse, and 265lb Mykel Williams) and a linebacker (250lb Chaz Chambliss) and then one LB spying the QB and dropping 6 into coverage. The result of the play is a sack/fumble/shouldabeenasafety. Contact between the defense and Hooker? Exactly 3.1 seconds

So why did the same play for Tennessee end in a TD vs Bama and end in disaster vs. UGA?

UGA has better defensive linemen and they pressured the QB better by taking advantage of better linemen but ALSO bringing more pressure. Bama had 8 in coverage and gave up a long TD while UGA only had 6 in coverage and got a sack.

If you are comparing those two plays, you are comparing apples to oranges.

First and ten at mid-field is far different than third and ten at your own five. (The receivers are lined up differently as well.)

 

[Lucky Jack]

I've not watched UGA enough to know but is Kirby still running Saban's D or has he modified it over the years? I suspect it's the latter, meaning the basic D might be similar, but the tweaks have made it more effective.

I read an article last year or the year before that said he basically cut the playbook in half.

 

[Tidelines]

I read an article last year or the year before that said he basically cut the playbook in half.

I believe that.

 

[BamaMoon]

I read an article last year or the year before that said he basically cut the playbook in half.

What I remember being said is he "simplified" it.

We hear from time to time that CNS defense is very complex. It's likely why we have busts a lot.

 

[Evil Crimson Dragon]

I'm not sure about Leonard.....kinda like Schumann..........I also think the defense needs to be made less complex

 

[gtgilbert]

Regarding UGA vs Bama's D. They run the "same defense" in a lot of ways, but in reality they don't do a lot of the same stuff. Some of that is due to personnel, some is due to playcalling (which may hindered/helped by personnel).

Here are some examples.

Bama vs. UT . It's 1st and 10. Bama has 2 defensive linemen in the game, plus Will Anderson lined up as defensive end to rush. Bama has 2 linebackers (not counting Anderson who isn't being used as an LB) and 6 DBs (i.e. a dime package). They are set up to defend the pass even though it's 1st and 10 and they could easily run it.

Tennessee is in shotgun with a RB next to the QB and 4 WRs split out wide.

Bama has Kool Aid on the line against a WR and Hellams 10 yards back on their best WR Hyatt.

View attachment 30394

When the ball is snapped Bama rushes 3 and drops 8 into coverage. The Vols run a play action pass that the LBs don't really bite on. There is no pressure on Hooker because they have 5 guys blocking the 3 rushers. Hooker waits for Hyatt to get open and then throws a rainbow to a wide open receiver for a TD. Snap to release is 3.1 seconds.

Same sort of situation for UGA vs UT in their game.

UT lines up in almost exactly the same formation as the play above. It's 3rd and 6. It's a passing down.


View attachment 30397

UGA, though, has a different defensive call. They have 3 actual defensive linemen in the game (300lb Jalen Carter, 320lb Nazir Stackhouse, and 265lb Mykel Williams) and a linebacker (250lb Chaz Chambliss) and then one LB spying the QB and dropping 6 into coverage. The result of the play is a sack/fumble/shouldabeenasafety. Contact between the defense and Hooker? Exactly 3.1 seconds

So why did the same play for Tennessee end in a TD vs Bama and end in disaster vs. UGA?

UGA has better defensive linemen and they pressured the QB better by taking advantage of better linemen but ALSO bringing more pressure. Bama had 8 in coverage and gave up a long TD while UGA only had 6 in coverage and got a sack.

We've actually got our nickel package in for the play you highlighted. Dallas Turner is playing the flats at the bottom of the image so he's not involved in the pass rush. The grouping is 2DL, 2OLB, 2ILB and 5DBs

The focus should be on where we are rushing from, v UGA. We've got 2 of the best pass rushers in the game lined up in positions that do not let them use their best attributes at all. Anderson is lined up on the GUARD. The best outside speed rusher in the game, and can't use any of those tools in this alignment. That is absolutely insane and we did it all year. Having Turner in the flat - also insane. Flex HTT out there if needed, but let DT do what he does best. We don't have a single rusher lined up wider than the OT and every single rusher is very easy to double since all the guys are lined up in such a narrow set.

Contrast that with UGA and they have a speed guy on the outside edge of each OT meaning one of them can't be doubled. the two inside guys are in spots where the OG's have to focus on them instead of outside doubles - so the one edge guy that might get a double will be doubled by the RB after he's gotten some speed up. It also ensures at least one inside rusher will NOT be double teamed and has a greater chance of getting a push.

As for personnel, I'd take our two edge guys over their bigger DL at 265 and one OLB. Anderson likely has more power than that DE anyway. For the inside guys - who knows. Ours could actually be better than the UGA guys, but our dudes are being instantly and easily doubled, while the UGA guys are not.

 

[JustNeedMe81]

I've said Golding isnt going anywhere..... then I said He's gone... then I said He isn't going anywhere....

Why do I keep torturing myself like that? WE know Bama scheme works for 90, 95 percent of the time. the issue is the 5, 10 percent that get us in the trouble. The opposing team's schemes against our 10 percent of the team's flaws: I believe there are three issues that can be easily fixed in off season.

1) We have to stop being predictable on defense with our DL/LB scheme. Cheetah package worked for a while, and then boom, we got exploited. If we're going to use Mush Rush scheme, then do it correct to where our LBs can make play. This is personnel issue for DL/LBs. I believe we will correct that with property developments. This is a coaching issue. Bringing Sal Sunseri back on the field will fix that.

2) Saban loves to teach the CB watching the receivers/not the ball. It works for most part... but Saban has to make adjustments there. I believe Someone said Georgia doesn't play to receiver, they play to the ball. Both team are completely on opposite side when it comes to Penalties: Georgia is #18 and Alabama is almost dead last. Half of the penalties is on PI, rest with on Holding and Facemask. This is coaching issue. This is scheme issue. This is on Saban. He needs to adjust slightly on the back end, to allow more flexibility with CBs... continue to teach what he loves the most but allow them to trust their instincts more.

3) Golding is coaching out of his elements, and it has been said over and over that He's coaching Saban's defense. Sure he brought some of the concepts over from other sopts and implemented them. It hasn't really worked out the way he thought it would with calling plays. His issue is that he's allowing teams to stay on the fields on 3rd downs more than he should. We've had issues with 3rd down and 5 or shorter, and yet Teams are able to convert on it. If we're in 3rd and 15 and team convert that, then It's coaching issue. No way we should be out of position when making plays. Golding doesn't adjust well after halftime. I've noticed that. I"ve also noticed that Saban knows what needs to be adjusted and he has said that at half time or after game, and yet we still don't do that. This is on Golding. I don't know if he's doing it on purpose to prove his point that his way works or what....


I think if Golding stays, then Saban and Golding needs to have a heart to heart talk and reach compromise on scheme/ and or Saban brings in a co-dc/ analyst to help with developing play calling.
(Since Auburn hired Hugh Freeze, I think We should go ahead and hire Pruitt.... )


If Saban does decide to let Golding go, I can think of 3 people right now who's not on the staff who can immediately fit in immediately, and no it's not Leonhard. 1. Schumann. That's #1 priority... 2. Mason. I think he has proved he can run different scheme and still be good. 3. Arnett - I like his scheme. I love how he use blitz package.

My issue with Leonhard is that while his defense is very good, but it has come against teams in league who hasn't been great and his defense can be inconsistent at time.

If Pruitt does come back... It still doesn't' fix the issues we have on the field. We likely need to upgrade coaching at DL/LB.

 

[Tidelines]

I'm not sure about Leonard.....kinda like Schumann..........I also think the defense needs to be made less complex

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Da Vinci

 

[4Q Basket Case]

I don’t know if Golding was where he shouldn’t have been. Even if he was, I have no idea what might have caused him to be somewhere he didn’t need to be.

But if you’re a football coach at Alabama, whether HC, coordinator, or a position coach, you simply can’t go to a bar. Tuscaloosa’s just too small.

You can go to a restaurant, preferably in a group, and have limited drinks with dinner. Due to autograph seekers and others wanting to introduce themselves, even that’s iffy if you’re the HC.

So long as you can perform your job to Saban’s demanding standards, you can drink all you want inside your home. Maybe out on your deck, if you don’t blare music or otherwise howl at the moon.

But you can’t go to a bar in Tuscaloosa, and really don’t need to do so at the Gulf Coast. Outside of those areas, you need to use really good judgement. If you don’t understand that going in, you don’t understand the full demands of the job.

 

[UAH]

I don’t know if Golding was where he shouldn’t have been. Even if he was, I have no idea what might have caused him to be somewhere he didn’t need to be.

But if you’re a football coach at Alabama, whether HC, coordinator, or a position coach, you simply can’t go to a bar. Tuscaloosa’s just too small.

You can go to a restaurant, preferably in a group, and have limited drinks with dinner. Due to autograph seekers and others wanting to introduce themselves, even that’s iffy if you’re the HC.

So long as you can perform your job to Saban’s demanding standards, you can drink all you want inside your home. Maybe out on your deck, if you don’t blare music or otherwise howl at the moon.

But you can’t go to a bar in Tuscaloosa, and really don’t need to do so at the Gulf Coast. Outside of those areas, you need to use really good judgement. If you don’t understand that going in, you don’t understand the full demands of the job.

If a person is not into maintaining their mind and body as an example to all of the young men they are attempting to coach then they are in the wrong job to begin with. Golding appears to lack a lot in this area without me knowing his particular drinking habits and having only an inexcusable DUI to go on.

 

[AlexanderFan]

If a person is not into maintaining their mind and body as an example to all of the young men they are attempting to coach then they are in the wrong job to begin with. Golding appears to lack a lot in this area without me knowing his particular drinking habits and having only an inexcusable DUI to go on.

Wait till you see Sal Sunseri….

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I've said Golding isnt going anywhere..... then I said He's gone... then I said He isn't going anywhere....

Why do I keep torturing myself like that? WE know Bama scheme works for 90, 95 percent of the time. the issue is the 5, 10 percent that get us in the trouble. The opposing team's schemes against our 10 percent of the team's flaws: I believe there are three issues that can be easily fixed in off season.

1) We have to stop being predictable on defense with our DL/LB scheme. Cheetah package worked for a while, and then boom, we got exploited. If we're going to use Mush Rush scheme, then do it correct to where our LBs can make play. This is personnel issue for DL/LBs. I believe we will correct that with property developments. This is a coaching issue. Bringing Sal Sunseri back on the field will fix that.

2) Saban loves to teach the CB watching the receivers/not the ball. It works for most part... but Saban has to make adjustments there. I believe Someone said Georgia doesn't play to receiver, they play to the ball. Both team are completely on opposite side when it comes to Penalties: Georgia is #18 and Alabama is almost dead last. Half of the penalties is on PI, rest with on Holding and Facemask. This is coaching issue. This is scheme issue. This is on Saban. He needs to adjust slightly on the back end, to allow more flexibility with CBs... continue to teach what he loves the most but allow them to trust their instincts more.

How PI is now called Saban's technique is a liability and creates PI penalties, plain and simple. He needs to change or continue costing us big plays and downs.

 

[NoNC4Tubs]

So if and when BOB leaves, who would we go after...?

 

[GrayTide]

I agree with buzz about DPI penalties. It has been said over and over that players come to Alabama to be coached by CNS to get them NFL ready. I understand this, but in the NFL they (DBs) are facing highly skilled, in most cases, veteran pocket passers throwing to experienced WRs. This is not the same level of competition they are facing in the SEC, and our pass coverage DPI penalties bear this out. I am in the camp that the CNS defensive philosophy is complicated and too complex for most of our defensive players. I may be wrong and it could be simply inept coaching by the defensive staff. IDK

 

[JustNeedMe81]

So if and when BOB leaves, who would we go after...?

This is wide open field... We just need a OC that can be creative with play calling and develop QB. I'm curious to see who will we target... Ole Miss OC, Weis Jr? Phil Longo? or we reaching in NFL pocket? I don't think we'll know more about OC until Jan/Feb. DC/ other positions will probably be after signing day. I get a feeling Saban wants staff in place for 4th quarter program.

 

[JustNeedMe81]

How PI is now called Saban's technique is a liability and creates PI penalties, plain and simple. He needs to change or continue costing us big plays and downs.

You know what's funny? some teams in NFL runs that same concept and doesn't have major issues... this leads me to believe that his concept doesn't need to be overhauled, but rather tweaked to fit todays' game flow.

 

[JustNeedMe81]

Wait till you see Sal Sunseri….

???????

 

[Bamabuzzard]

You know what's funny? some teams in NFL runs that same concept and doesn't have major issues... this leads me to believe that his concept doesn't need to be overhauled, but rather tweaked to fit todays' game flow.

Here's the difference I can see as to why that may be, it is the difference between a professional athlete and an amateur athlete. As good as the talent is that Bama puts on the field, the majority still won't be good enough to make it in the NFL. That's HOW GOOD the guys in the NFL are. Saban's technique may come more working on the professional level because the talent on that level is more capable of consistently doing it right.