Season is a blur but It was like we ran 2 different offenses. Some games Milroe fake a snap and look over at the sidelines and other games we just literally lined up and ran the play and he never looked over. I can't remember but I think it was different games we did this not series. We did it early even though we didn't change the plays he did take a look over and kind of reset.
Weaving the Tale: How We Got Where We Are
- Thread starter BamaMoon
- Start date
The players were vested in NILroe because he was paying them via LANK. Really simple. No NILroe, no LANK, less cash.
Might not want to believe it, but it is very, very likely the case.
That may be true of Ty and it may not be, but we know for a fact that it’s true of Milroe. When he was stinking it up against Michigan, it would have been worth giving Ty a shot to see if he was on. If he was off, go back to Milroe, but I doubt if he could have been any more of a disaster.
Perhaps Ty was pressing a bit to make a statement. He knew the only way to earn the starting position was to be noticeably better than Jalen. That may have led to some mistakes or inconsistency.
OTOH, if he's QB1, and doesn't have to press to make an impression on the staff, maybe he will be "on" more often.
OTOH, if he's QB1, and doesn't have to press to make an impression on the staff, maybe he will be "on" more often.
Yes, that was certainly one of the great personnel decisions of the Saban era.
Maybe the new guy doesn't know how to evaluate QBs. Did he recruit Penix? Likely he saw Ty throw that pass for a completion into coverage and decided to stay with the other guy that can run the offense and never turns the ball over. I would put this in blue font but I'm just completely baffled by what we witnessed. Perhaps JM as a complete QB is exactly what CKD saw. That's scary, but who really knows at this point.
One interesting (to me) thought I had this morning was to rate Ty Simpson in terms of his overall athleticism vs other QB's in the SEC. I might rate Ewers and Beck ahead on experience. Perhaps Dart would be ahead on experience and throwing the football. I don't come up immediately with other QB's I would put ahead of him. Overall I would rate his athleticism ahead of most other QB's I have seen other than Jayden Daniels who is starting in the NFL. To me it is incredible that he has not seen the field!
I want to see how Ty does when given a legitimate chance to play meaningful snaps, with the 1's, in a real game.
Thanks. I think I must have been trying to mentally block out the Michigan game.
College football dynasties don't die overnight. USC, the last pre-Alabama dynasty, won their last national title during their run in 2004, but they lost the title game in 2005, were in the run until a still mind-boggling loss to end the season in 2006, finished #2 in the country in 2007 (first year with Sark as OC), and finished #2 in 2008 as well. (I've said previously someone needs to do a 30 for 30 on the 48 hours that changed college football on September 25-27, 2008 - the days Oregon State stunned USC, Ole Miss shocked Florida, and Alabama crushed Georgia). But the POINT is that USC may not have WON titles, but they were in the hunt the next four seasons.
The dynasty preceding USC, Nebraska, may not have won a championship post-Osborne, but what's forgotten now is that after a rough first year under Solich (9-4), they finished #3 (#2 coaches) in 1999, and likely would have played for the title had Florida State and Va Tech not been the only unbeaten teams (since they did avenge their sole loss to Texas). They led eventual 2000 champion Oklahoma, 14-0, before a momentum shift destroyed them. And they played for the title in 2001. Four years after winning it all the last time, they were STILL IN CONTENTION (everyone seems to forget they were 11-0 and ranked NUMBER ONE in the BCS poll when they got blown out by Colorado).
The point? DYNASTIES DO NOT DIE OVERNIGHT.
Sure, after the fact everyone looks back at one particular game (1982 USM for Alabama, 1993 Sugar Bowl for Miami, 1998 K-State for Nebraska, 2007 Stanford for USC) that is the crucial moment, but CFB dynasties don't collapse overnight into the trash bin, they contend and bob up near the top for a few years before the end. And for the record, the dynasty age of Alabama died on the field of the Rose Bowl against Michigan last year. One could try to make long connections 2012-15-17-20-23 and make it work, but the collapse of Constantinople (where gunpowder overcame the protective walls) for the Alabama dynasty was last year with Mildew taking snaps.
and that brings us to right now.
========================================
I'm lucky to be old enough (as mentioned a few days ago) to recall the collapse of the Bryant-Alabama dynasty (the second one), where we won the title in 1979 and (so many forget this) had the "outside chance" with a #3 ranking in the 1982 Cotton Bowl behind unbeaten Orange Bowl underdog Clemson and #2 Georgia; had we won and both lost, we would have won the 1981 national title - because Nebraska had two losses and one was to a Penn State team we had pummeled in Happy Valley. And we were #2 in the country in 1982 after beating eventual champ PSU before the rickety foundation of the Alabama dynasty creaked, crumbled, and collapsed.
But again, often forgotten is that we were #3 entering the Penn St game that was (largely) stolen from us. Also forgotten is the fact Alabama began 1984 (after that 8-4 Perkins debut) with a first-place vote in the AP poll and a #9 ranking. Yes - a #9 ranking despite not having a starting QB (Walter Lewis graduated), two four-loss seasons in a row, Auburn beginning the year as the national championship favorite (and #1) and a schedule that included the 82 champs and the UGA team coming off what was then their greatest four-year period ever.
So what happened in 1982????
Coach Bryant had a unique way of recruiting/coaching that would probably not work in the modern game, where he not only sought players to play IN HIS SYSTEM (a la Saban), but also told them they would not likely play very much (and certainly not start) until they were juniors. Now don't be thinking citing the occasional outlier proves the opposite, because I'm talking about his general approach, the approach that even Ken Donahue admits cost us Bo Jackson. He did not promise playing time and he leaned heavily on the old school way of "the senior has been here the longest, has been developed the most, understands what I want and gets to start." Bear in mind (pardon the pun), Bryant did not name full-time starters and routinely suspended players for "not having a winning attitude".
A confluence of events conspired to make Ray Perkins's tough job even tougher (and for the record, I thought he was a disaster of a head coach but that's another story).
These included:
- the parity due to scholarship restrictions (probably the biggest)
- the fact Bryant was required by state law to retire post-1983, letting the other SEC coaches use the "Bear won't be there" tactic in their recruiting
- his methodology of development and leaning on experience
- the fact this approach and the limitations had put Alabama's future performance in jeopardy
- Auburn's immediate success, making their in-state job easier and ours more difficult
- the shattering of fan consensus, making anything Perkins did the subject of heated debate
- the loss of Kerry Goode in the 1984 opener, when he was the best player on the field (295 all purpose yards and he barely played more than one half)
This last may have been the reason for Perkins's sole losing season at Alabama. For those who can remember, it was like in 2000, when Shaun Alexander was gone and we thought it would be okay, but we didn't have anyone on the team like Shaun in 1999 (or Chris Samuels leading the way). We were 5-6 and Alabama lost two games when we only surrendered 16 points - and 18 would have beaten us in the Iron Bowl if Pat Dye hadn't outsmarted himself. But Goode AT A MINIMUM would have gotten us those two wins PLUS the Boston College game, and who knows? That right there is a third straight 8-4 season, and everyone would have been looking forward to 1985 rather than fearing it.
The only Alabama teams I ever saw more defeated mentally than that 1984 team - "oh great, how are we gonna blow it today?" - were 2000 and 2003.
Perkins caught all kinds of hell - some deserved but probably more that was NOT deserved. Radio call-in shows would blast him from one end of the universe to the other and show the same unfamiliarity with how football is a multi-faceted game that requires offense, defense AND special teams. Alabama averaged 20.5 ppg that year, and if you drop the two OOC cupcakes, it was 17.8. VANDY scored 68 more points than Alabama did (and beat us, 30-21).
Does it tell us something about today?
maybe, maybe not. The dynasty IS dead, folks. And Perkins didn't have to walk in after escaping with the IB win and see Cornelius Bennett, Curt Jarvis, Jon Hand, and Mike Shula announce they were entering the transfer portal.
A lot of what happened this year was not on CKD.
But a lot of it also was, too.
Just don't be shocked if in the effort to fully take over, he goes 9-4 again.
The dynasty preceding USC, Nebraska, may not have won a championship post-Osborne, but what's forgotten now is that after a rough first year under Solich (9-4), they finished #3 (#2 coaches) in 1999, and likely would have played for the title had Florida State and Va Tech not been the only unbeaten teams (since they did avenge their sole loss to Texas). They led eventual 2000 champion Oklahoma, 14-0, before a momentum shift destroyed them. And they played for the title in 2001. Four years after winning it all the last time, they were STILL IN CONTENTION (everyone seems to forget they were 11-0 and ranked NUMBER ONE in the BCS poll when they got blown out by Colorado).
The point? DYNASTIES DO NOT DIE OVERNIGHT.
Sure, after the fact everyone looks back at one particular game (1982 USM for Alabama, 1993 Sugar Bowl for Miami, 1998 K-State for Nebraska, 2007 Stanford for USC) that is the crucial moment, but CFB dynasties don't collapse overnight into the trash bin, they contend and bob up near the top for a few years before the end. And for the record, the dynasty age of Alabama died on the field of the Rose Bowl against Michigan last year. One could try to make long connections 2012-15-17-20-23 and make it work, but the collapse of Constantinople (where gunpowder overcame the protective walls) for the Alabama dynasty was last year with Mildew taking snaps.
and that brings us to right now.
========================================
I'm lucky to be old enough (as mentioned a few days ago) to recall the collapse of the Bryant-Alabama dynasty (the second one), where we won the title in 1979 and (so many forget this) had the "outside chance" with a #3 ranking in the 1982 Cotton Bowl behind unbeaten Orange Bowl underdog Clemson and #2 Georgia; had we won and both lost, we would have won the 1981 national title - because Nebraska had two losses and one was to a Penn State team we had pummeled in Happy Valley. And we were #2 in the country in 1982 after beating eventual champ PSU before the rickety foundation of the Alabama dynasty creaked, crumbled, and collapsed.
But again, often forgotten is that we were #3 entering the Penn St game that was (largely) stolen from us. Also forgotten is the fact Alabama began 1984 (after that 8-4 Perkins debut) with a first-place vote in the AP poll and a #9 ranking. Yes - a #9 ranking despite not having a starting QB (Walter Lewis graduated), two four-loss seasons in a row, Auburn beginning the year as the national championship favorite (and #1) and a schedule that included the 82 champs and the UGA team coming off what was then their greatest four-year period ever.
So what happened in 1982????
Coach Bryant had a unique way of recruiting/coaching that would probably not work in the modern game, where he not only sought players to play IN HIS SYSTEM (a la Saban), but also told them they would not likely play very much (and certainly not start) until they were juniors. Now don't be thinking citing the occasional outlier proves the opposite, because I'm talking about his general approach, the approach that even Ken Donahue admits cost us Bo Jackson. He did not promise playing time and he leaned heavily on the old school way of "the senior has been here the longest, has been developed the most, understands what I want and gets to start." Bear in mind (pardon the pun), Bryant did not name full-time starters and routinely suspended players for "not having a winning attitude".
A confluence of events conspired to make Ray Perkins's tough job even tougher (and for the record, I thought he was a disaster of a head coach but that's another story).
These included:
- the parity due to scholarship restrictions (probably the biggest)
- the fact Bryant was required by state law to retire post-1983, letting the other SEC coaches use the "Bear won't be there" tactic in their recruiting
- his methodology of development and leaning on experience
- the fact this approach and the limitations had put Alabama's future performance in jeopardy
- Auburn's immediate success, making their in-state job easier and ours more difficult
- the shattering of fan consensus, making anything Perkins did the subject of heated debate
- the loss of Kerry Goode in the 1984 opener, when he was the best player on the field (295 all purpose yards and he barely played more than one half)
This last may have been the reason for Perkins's sole losing season at Alabama. For those who can remember, it was like in 2000, when Shaun Alexander was gone and we thought it would be okay, but we didn't have anyone on the team like Shaun in 1999 (or Chris Samuels leading the way). We were 5-6 and Alabama lost two games when we only surrendered 16 points - and 18 would have beaten us in the Iron Bowl if Pat Dye hadn't outsmarted himself. But Goode AT A MINIMUM would have gotten us those two wins PLUS the Boston College game, and who knows? That right there is a third straight 8-4 season, and everyone would have been looking forward to 1985 rather than fearing it.
The only Alabama teams I ever saw more defeated mentally than that 1984 team - "oh great, how are we gonna blow it today?" - were 2000 and 2003.
Perkins caught all kinds of hell - some deserved but probably more that was NOT deserved. Radio call-in shows would blast him from one end of the universe to the other and show the same unfamiliarity with how football is a multi-faceted game that requires offense, defense AND special teams. Alabama averaged 20.5 ppg that year, and if you drop the two OOC cupcakes, it was 17.8. VANDY scored 68 more points than Alabama did (and beat us, 30-21).
Does it tell us something about today?
maybe, maybe not. The dynasty IS dead, folks. And Perkins didn't have to walk in after escaping with the IB win and see Cornelius Bennett, Curt Jarvis, Jon Hand, and Mike Shula announce they were entering the transfer portal.
A lot of what happened this year was not on CKD.
But a lot of it also was, too.
Just don't be shocked if in the effort to fully take over, he goes 9-4 again.
Yeah, there's no doubt the dynasty is over. That was starting to become apparent in 2023 when Saban was still here. The nail was driven into the coffin this season.
Regarding going 9-4 again. As of now, and until I'm proven wrong, I see DeBoer going 9-3 at best next season and at worst 7-5. A lot of things I saw made me lose confidence in the staff and how they do business. I'm still on board with supporting him and the staff and giving them a chance to establish their ways and systems. So I'm not on the "fire the entire staff" train, but I'm also not on the "we're going to compete for the SEC" train just yet either. Wait and see is where I am currently.
He'll probably get a chance to play somewhere this year. Hope it's us, hope he's great and hope waiting turns out to be the right course. It'll be interesting to watch.
Maybe he really does suck way worse that JM. Maybe he's looking at a future in coaching and he's just hanging around learning from CNS and Deboer to build his resume. Maybe I have zero clue why UA, apparently, didn't have a serviceable QB on the roster this year. Maybe being coached by BoB, Rees, and Sheridan doesn't prepare a guy to play at a high level. Maybe...
How we got here
1. NIL began with good intentions but ended up being a way to lure depth away from good teams like Bama.
2. The portal became the mechanism to thin the depth. Annually for 4+ years to the point where we lose most players between 30-55 on the team each year. Leaving us only “most starters”, some freshmen, and a handful of gumps
3. With the depth gone, the starters became more powerful, and ultimately Lank emerged
4. Coaches spend less time coaching and more time re-recruiting the team. More time pacifying than practicing.
5. The SEC grows to a 16-team monster, adding even more teams and thinning the talent even more across the conference
6. Fewer kids are playing football around the country. Less overall talent coming out. Fewer overlooked kids to find. One of the trademarks of Saban’s best years.
7. The literal GOAT retires.
let’s face it, it’s over. We went out on top. What we are playing now is a different game. Different rules. Different everything. It’s not the same game.
I mean the Orange Bowl was on a Thursday Night, January 9th. Carson Beck’s portal entry was at one point above the game on CBS Sports.
I’m fine with it. We were the last Dynasty. UGA was the last Clemson. Texas is the last, well, Texas.
1. NIL began with good intentions but ended up being a way to lure depth away from good teams like Bama.
2. The portal became the mechanism to thin the depth. Annually for 4+ years to the point where we lose most players between 30-55 on the team each year. Leaving us only “most starters”, some freshmen, and a handful of gumps
3. With the depth gone, the starters became more powerful, and ultimately Lank emerged
4. Coaches spend less time coaching and more time re-recruiting the team. More time pacifying than practicing.
5. The SEC grows to a 16-team monster, adding even more teams and thinning the talent even more across the conference
6. Fewer kids are playing football around the country. Less overall talent coming out. Fewer overlooked kids to find. One of the trademarks of Saban’s best years.
7. The literal GOAT retires.
let’s face it, it’s over. We went out on top. What we are playing now is a different game. Different rules. Different everything. It’s not the same game.
I mean the Orange Bowl was on a Thursday Night, January 9th. Carson Beck’s portal entry was at one point above the game on CBS Sports.
I’m fine with it. We were the last Dynasty. UGA was the last Clemson. Texas is the last, well, Texas.
That may be your opinion, but all of that is speculation. However, we are all still trying to make sense out of the situation because logic doesn't seem to apply. It has been baffling because we could look so good at times, yet we would look like a middle school team at times. It has truly been Jekyll and Hyde. I still can't believe that Saban or DeBoer would allow themselves to be pushed around and/or intimidated into submission.
It's not really speculation though. All the information is there and it is also the only logical answer.
- NILroe created LANK.
- NILroe paid other players using funds from LANK
- Those players are loyal to NILroe
- When NILroe was benched for a horrible performance, and for how poor he handled the film review, those player made a statement with their play (or just not playing)
- In a player only meeting those players made it clear they were only playing for NILroe. Saban goes with TS, he loses a chunk of the team.
- Saban announces shortly after that meeting that NILroe is the starter for the rest of the year, no competition happening in practice.
- Saban rides it out to try to get one more NC, but then decides this crap isn't worth it. Dont forget Saban pushed NILroe hard to transfer out of the program before the 2023 season, but NILroe wouldn't go because he couldn't get a guaranteed starting job anywhere.
- NILroe rallies his LANK crew, and tells the new coach that he can get all these guys to stay out of the portal, but you have to make me the starter. CKD tells the world this is NILroes team.
- CKD keeps the team together, and then tells the world we will only be running 10% of our real offense due to the players we have - meaning NILroe
- Then no matter how poorly he plays, he isn't getting pulled.
- A group of WRs advocate to CKD that TS should be starting cause he's outperforming NILroe in practice, but CKD made a deal, so still no TS.
- We have a mass exodus from the WR because they lose faith in the coaching staff because of how this was handled.
These are all actually things that are either very broadly known as fact, or things that long time folks on this board who don't spread speculation have stated. It's info either directly from the locker room or very, very close.
It is what it is - or maybe it was what it was.
We just need to all be glad it's more than likely GONE.
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