Question: Should AP rank Utah #1?

NYBamaFan

Suspended
Feb 2, 2002
23,316
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Blairstown, NJ
I'm not sure how SOS is computed by Sagarin... some systems don't give credit twice for beating the same team. But for the sake of this argument, just assume that any team in any BCS conference goes undefeated - they're going to be #1 or #2 unless there are 3 or more BCS teams that are undefeated, correct? Even if their overall schedule is not considered strong, because human voters give teams in the BCS conferences (and Notre Dame) extra consideration. Ideally any ranking system would only take into account what takes place during the season.
No one knows exactly how the computer polls work. The formulae are protected from everyone, including the BCS (sounds like something a crooked politician cooked up). But I have read that team names do not appear, just the data associated with each week's opponent. In that case, the computer would see each game as a separate game against an opponent with exactly the same stats. They would get credit for both wins, as they should...
 

UT4EVER

Suspended
Feb 9, 2008
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South Florida was underested and climbed all the way to # 2.... Then they suddenly became the "target" and teams started gearing up for them.... I'm sorry but you can't deny there is a huge difference.
 

uafootball92

1st Team
Sep 21, 2005
943
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35
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St. Charles, Missouri
I believe it should happen. I know the arguments against it are "they play in a weak conference", etc. My question is this. Is the national champion the best TEAM in the country or the best PROGRAM? For that once in a lifetime team that small programs have, they can't know years in advance when they are going to have a good team. If you go undefeated in college football, you should have a chance at a national championship. Utterly ridiculous that they don't. Sure, I don't think they are the best team, but they should have a chance to prove me wrong. Just like Boise State a few years ago.
 

Mamacalled

Hall of Fame
Dec 4, 2000
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Well, we could possibly have four teams at the end of the season with a legitmate argument for #1:
Winner of UF/OU: obviously
Texas: If OU beats Florida, then Texas would have an argument. Both teams would have one loss, with Texas winning head-to-head.
USC: One loss, just like the national champions, and put on a clinic in their bowl game. No clear advantage over the national champions, but would have an argument.
Utah: Only undefeated team. While mid-majors don't normally get credit for an undefeated season (e.g. 2004), this is a little bit different. The Utes beat the #2 team in the Pac-10 and #2 in the SEC. They went on the road and beat Michigan (granted, not a good Michigan team, but still different than other undefeated mid-majors in the past). Also, they would be the only undefeated team in the country. In 2004, Utah was one of three undefeated teams. In 2006, Boise State didn't have near the schedule the Utes did in 2008. Their advantage would be an undefeated season, but nevertheless, they won't sniff #1 in any poll. Should they? I wouldn't be opposed to it, but I'd still vote for the winner of OU/UF.

A plus-3 system would have worked great this year...
Boise actually beat 6 teams that played in bowl games and four of those won their bowl game. Their schedule strength was rated as high as ours was this year.
 

BAMA1979

All-American
Nov 15, 2006
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Mobile
Boise actually beat 6 teams that played in bowl games and four of those won their bowl game. Their schedule strength was rated as high as ours was this year.
That shows a major flaw in the way they are calculating strength of schedule. I'd sure like to take our chances against this slate:


2008 Boise State Football Schedule

DATE TEAM LOCATION

Aug. 30 Idaho State Boise, Idaho

Sept. 13 Bowling Green Boise, Idaho

Sept. 20 @Oregon Eugene, Ore.

Oct. 1 Louisiana Tech Boise, Idaho (ESPN)

Oct. 11 @Southern Miss Hattiesburg, Miss.

Oct. 17 Hawaii Boise, Idaho (ESPN)

Oct. 24 @San Jose State San Jose, Calif. (ESPN2)

Nov. 1 @New Mexico State Las Cruces, N.M.

Nov. 8 Utah State Boise, Idaho

Nov. 15 @Idaho Moscow, Idaho

Nov. 22 @Nevada Reno, Nev.

Nov. 28 Fresno State Boise, Idaho (ESPN2)
 

Mamacalled

Hall of Fame
Dec 4, 2000
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Pelham, Al
I think Utah has got a great team, but no one will convince me that was the same team we watched all year from Bama. I'm all for a playoff, and then we could have these match ups meaning the same thing for both teams. This was the first game that Bama wasn't playing for a SEC/National title all year, and it showed. Utah still had that drive for their team, and it showed. Utah out hit us, out executed us, and the coaching was way more prepare than we where in this game. I hadn't seen Bama get out hit all year this year until the Sugar bowl, and I was disappoint our boys didn't come to play until after the first 10 minutes of the first quarter, and when they sorta woke up, damage was done......

I think Utah has got a great team, but I'm not 100% sure how good they would handle teams like USC, Florida, Oklahoma, or Texas this year. Bama had week spots with Cover CB's & lacks depth, and Florida & Utah expose our pass coverage these last two games, but these other teams are a lot deeper than Bama is this year. We were very fortunate to stay healthy all year, but once our best player (Smith) was out for two games this year. Bama's offense look like a totally different offense, and couldn't move the ball at all those two games. I had a bad feeling with this game if Bama would show up or not. They didn't, and hopefully they learn from all this, but us fans are just as much to blame. The excitement on this board before the game was low like if we where playing Tulane or something. Wasn't even close to like when we played LSU, Aubarn, Florida, or Clemson this year. If us fans where like this how can be upset at the players for feeling the same way......

Saying all this.....
I think it's only right to give Utah the AP title at least becasue they won every game put in front of them this year, and should get rewarded from this. Utah should not get punished for this messed up system we have in college football where the littel guy stand no chance to get in the title game. Utah played enough good teams to get that......


:BigA: ROLL TIDE :BigA:
That is what all of the USC homers said when we were #1 and they were claiming that they should be #1. They didn't play a good game against Oregon State so it should not have counted.
 

Squirrely

All-SEC
Aug 31, 2008
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Gainesville FL
No doubt, that's a nice looking schedule there.........:eek2:
How ever they are figuring these strengths of schedule it's messed up...

To Utah's credit they had a Ok schedule this year compare to most Mid-majors that have gone undefeated before.....


:BigA: ROLL TIDE :BigA:
 

BAMARICH

All-American
Jan 9, 2005
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Northport, AL
No way... even with a perfect record. You might could make a case for one of the one-loss teams being annointed, but not Utah. Fact of the matter is that Utah would not beat a Florida, Oklahoma, Texas, or USC... and if you'd think otherwise, you've obviously got distorted glasses on. Utah beat a bad performing Bama team that history proves has a difficult time winning w/o Andre Smith. Compound that with Johnson's injury, lack of intensity, and a lack of sound coaching prior to and during the first part of the game, and you've got a Utah team that didn't beat the best Bama team of this year.

With that said, Utah should have nothing to be upset about. They had yet another terrific season and ended with great momentum. However, like a few others have pointed out earlier in the thread, you cannot compare the strength of the MWC to that of the Big 12, Pac 10, or SEC. And, as long as that is the case, any team coming from that conference is going to have to offset that bias with playing at least one or two extra O-O-C games against the "big boys" of the power conferences... not the middle-tier teams. Bad thing about that, however, is that you schedule a Michigan team that you figure will be top of the line only to face them in their worst year in many. Thus, some years you could actually have one of the top five teams in CF... but not get the respect. There are ways to get it, but most teams will not do what it takes to obtain it... including become an independent.
 

GrandBayTider

All-SEC
Nov 21, 2004
1,813
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What's the farthest you've traveled from Tuscaloosa for a game in the last five years? This "week in and week out" line is tossed around quite a bit but it doesn't hold water in my mind. Especially considering we get some of our wins by traveling across the country.
Well we have traveled to Hawaii so that is across the country (and some water too :) ). We have also traveled to Norman OK, and Los Angeles, CA in the last several years. We also don't have to travel across the country since there are lots of top programs in the Southeast as compared to say the Northwest. We played FSU and Clemson on the road the last two years. You may say they aren't that good but they seemed good when we scheduled them, kind of like Michigan huh? ;) We will be traveling to Happy Valley in 2 years to resume a traditional series with Penn St. So while we do play plenty of schools with sketchy resumes, we have played good teams away from home and will continue in the future. Heck some of those sketchy schools have beaten us! Remember Northern Illinios, Central Florida, or (shudders) Lousiana-Monroe :eek2: Hopefully you will see us traveling cross country next year to the Rose Bowl!

BTW, yes I would vote Utah #1 but I'm a contrarian :biggrin:
 

NYBamaFan

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Feb 2, 2002
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No way... even with a perfect record. You might could make a case for one of the one-loss teams being annointed, but not Utah. Fact of the matter is that Utah would not beat a Florida, Oklahoma, Texas, or USC...
To state this as fact in a sport in which USC lost to Oregon State, Florida lost to Ole Miss, and Texas lost to Texas Tech is just silly. Any team can lose on any given day - especially to a team as good as Utah. I am not saying that they would beat them, but they could...
 

BAMARICH

All-American
Jan 9, 2005
3,477
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Northport, AL
To state this as fact in a sport in which USC lost to Oregon State, Florida lost to Ole Miss, and Texas lost to Texas Tech is just silly. Any team can lose on any given day - especially to a team as good as Utah. I am not saying that they would beat them, but they could...
You are assuming the talent difference between those teams and Utah is in the same realm of those games that went the other way. It should be clear to you that I don't think their talent is that comparable... even with records being what they are. Again, I'm not trying to minimize their achievements, but it's one thing to beat teams in a regular season and doing it in the bowl season when marbles are on the line... which is where those teams I noted would be hooking up with the Utes.
 

NYBamaFan

Suspended
Feb 2, 2002
23,316
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You are assuming the talent difference between those teams and Utah is in the same realm of those games that went the other way. It should be clear to you that I don't think their talent is that comparable... even with records being what they are. Again, I'm not trying to minimize their achievements, but it's one thing to beat teams in a regular season and doing it in the bowl season when marbles are on the line... which is where those teams I noted would be hooking up with the Utes.
I get your argument - big teams get up for big games - but the ball doesn't always bounce the way that you expect it to...
 

Tokolosh

BamaNation Citizen
Dec 9, 2008
76
0
0
Salt Lake City, Utah
Fact of the matter is that Utah would not beat a Florida, Oklahoma, Texas, or USC... and if you'd think otherwise, you've obviously got distorted glasses on.

you cannot compare the strength of the MWC to that of the Big 12, Pac 10, or SEC.
Utah has regularly been told they couldn't or won't beat (insert team). A Pete Carroll coached and Carson Palmer lead USC team is in our wake. Who knows if Texas would be if they hadn't backed out of the home and home contract we had with them. I guess playing us would be too risky to their title hopes so they cancelled, I believe that would have started this year but I could be off on my dates.

A week ago many felt 'Bama would have little trouble dispatching the Utes. Even with Andre's departure there wasn't much concern from most who were talking. Anyone saying Utah was going to win "obviously had distorted glasses on." That's why we play the game.

To the second point of yours that I quoted... did you really just use the PAC-1 to make your point? Did you watch college football outside of the SEC this year?
 

Tokolosh

BamaNation Citizen
Dec 9, 2008
76
0
0
Salt Lake City, Utah
Give your honest opinion, what is UTah's record with this SEC schedule:

@ Ariz St, GT, UT, Bama, @ LSU, Florida, @ Auburn, @ UK, Vandy, UT
There are some tough games in there but come on, AZ St, Tenn, Kentucky, Vanderbilt? GT is also recently in our rearview. They were top 20 at the time and we were at the end of a rebuilding year with a second string QB taking over just the game before. That game was a sound beat down as well... even though they had a fantastic WR that was supposed to shred us.

For the Florida game would Kyle Whittingham and Urban Meyer have their weekly phone call to discuss each other's game plan? That could really change how I predict that one. ;) :biggrin:
 
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