Ah, my mistake. I wish they would eliminate Dems and Reps from all polling whatsoever. I just want to know what the indies and third-party voters think.
Government Shutdown
- Thread starter 75thru79
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This whole "who is responsible for the shutdown" is beyond boring and tiring. If the Democrats would just sign the CR then the government would reopen so therefore the Democrats are responsible while at the same time if Republicans would just restore the Obamacare tax credits then Democrats would sign off therefore the Republicans are responsible. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Short version:
"You're a racist" just doesn't have the clout it did. They don't seem to have much of a Plan B
Selma version:
Well, Bill Clinton did - but he'd fail at it today because the party (as I'm covering over the next several weeks on the "Polls" thread) bit their collective tongues and let him get away with stuff that prior to and after him they would never have let slip by. Bill Clinton executed a lobotomized black man during the New Hampshire primary, played golf at an all-white country club in Little Rock just after Super Tuesday, ran a commercial on prison inmates in Georgia as part of a chain gang (that caused Jerry Brown to call it a "version of the Willie Horton situation"), blew his stack on an open mike about Jesse Jackson when he heard (erroneously) that Jackson had endorsed Tom Harkin, ran on "ending welfare as we know it", eloquently tore into Sister Souljah's prejudiced rhetoric at a gathering with Jackson, and made sure all of his appearances with majority black audiences occurred AFTER the network evening news so he wouldn't be seen with them except MAYBE on some of the morning shows (Clinton himself called this "counter scheduling"). He FAVORED the death penalty, opposed most forms of gun control, had a wretched environmental record (see Tyson foods), and talked about the "responsibility" welfare recipients had to find work. (If Clinton had won as a Republican doing all these things, we'd be informed about how racist his campaign was, but it's always (D)ifferent when it's "our side").
Take abortion, where Clinton took probably the most common American position possible on the issue, saying he was "pro-choice, not pro-abortion" and said it should be "safe, legal, and rare." Any candidate today who said that - basically the old "look, I'd never have one myself, but I don't think it's right to impose my choice on others" - who says "safe/legal/rare" would be blistered for an entire weekend on Twitter about "how dare you say I have something to be ashamed of having an abortion!" Clinton wasn't saying anyone should - he was playing the game of "look, Americans have accepted a permanent compromise on abortion that they want it legal but it's still not a cool thing."
The problem is what I call the "purity posse" that has caused no end of problems for both parties (but especially the Democrats) since the demand for delegate selection via primaries/caucuses in 1972.
Does anyone REALLY think it would absolutely KILL a Democrat with the public at large if they said things like:
- if Republicans will quit pretending voter fraud is a thing, I'll agree to quit pretending voter ID is racist
- I'm for immigration; I'm NOT for ILLEGAL immigration
- I'm for modest tax increases on the wealthy, but I'm also for modest spending cuts or a freeze across the board, too
- some things should be handled at the state level, call that "states rights" if you wish, but some things like civil rights have proven to be disastrous if left at the state level, too
- defunding the police is insane but reforming the police is informed
But there's a Society of The Perpetually Aggrieved Morons (STAMP) who would hear the words "illegal" or "spending cuts" and their bowels would open and it would come out of their mouths. Bernie, Ponytail Guevarra, Eric "Gas Bag" Swalwell, "Little Richard" Bumenthal (a whop bop a loo bop a lop bam boom), Jen Psaki, and anyone who wants to run for President. (Biden would not be one of these people by the way).
The Democrats ought to have someone basically talking all during the waking hours about the bind the Republicans have put Americans in because right now Americans are listening and watching to see what happens. So far...
- Its pretty well established that health insurance premiums for everyone will significantly escalate if the ACA tax credits are not continued,
- Grain farmers have lost their largest export markets with no bailout in sight during harvest season,
- Federal civil service employees are about to miss a paycheck and there are questions if they will receive back pay,
- Military personnel are about to miss a paycheck,
- Argentina is getting a $20B bailout to keep their government open while our government is shutdown
- The Argentina bailout will bailout Wall Street investors who were facing significant losses on their investments there,
- Argentina repaid our thanks by selling soybeans to China tariff-free,
- Our exports of forestry products to Europe are down by 50%,
- Peanut farmers cant get paid while the government is shutdown because of how the system is setup,
- Wine exports are down 90%,
- And top it off, Trump is trying to extort a Nobel Peace Price from Norway for supposedly settling a peace deal that likely wont last through the weekend.
- Need I remind you now the Republicans want to double the cost of your Healthcare.
And that is just the crap that had come to fruition in the last 90 days...
- Its pretty well established that health insurance premiums for everyone will significantly escalate if the ACA tax credits are not continued,
- Grain farmers have lost their largest export markets with no bailout in sight during harvest season,
- Federal civil service employees are about to miss a paycheck and there are questions if they will receive back pay,
- Military personnel are about to miss a paycheck,
- Argentina is getting a $20B bailout to keep their government open while our government is shutdown
- The Argentina bailout will bailout Wall Street investors who were facing significant losses on their investments there,
- Argentina repaid our thanks by selling soybeans to China tariff-free,
- Our exports of forestry products to Europe are down by 50%,
- Peanut farmers cant get paid while the government is shutdown because of how the system is setup,
- Wine exports are down 90%,
- And top it off, Trump is trying to extort a Nobel Peace Price from Norway for supposedly settling a peace deal that likely wont last through the weekend.
- Need I remind you now the Republicans want to double the cost of your Healthcare.
And that is just the crap that had come to fruition in the last 90 days...
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FYI.....
There's a bi-partisan bill right now to extend the ACA premium tax credits for one year. Go to the 24 minute mark to hear from Lawler and at the 25 minute mark he mentions this.
Cuomo's response....Jeffries/Shumer et all cannot sign onto this because of political pressure of conceding and the shutdown is working well for both parties right now wrt fundraising.
SMH.......
Well at least we now know there is a bi-partisan bill that would extend the ACA premium tax credits available. And in theory would satisfy that issue for at least another year (or two).
There's a bi-partisan bill right now to extend the ACA premium tax credits for one year. Go to the 24 minute mark to hear from Lawler and at the 25 minute mark he mentions this.
Cuomo's response....Jeffries/Shumer et all cannot sign onto this because of political pressure of conceding and the shutdown is working well for both parties right now wrt fundraising.
SMH.......
Well at least we now know there is a bi-partisan bill that would extend the ACA premium tax credits available. And in theory would satisfy that issue for at least another year (or two).
One year does seem like a weak compromise. On the other hand, one year gets us to the midterms--and who knows? Maybe the Dems will figure out how to craft an effective message by then. [Narrator: They won't.]
IMHO whomever gets this resolved first gets a HUGE lift in the upcoming mid-terms.
I fully understand why the Republicans want new legislation on the ACA premium tax credits. Of course all of this should have been decided well before now - but we are now here and have to deal with it, right? And elections have consequences - hence your mention of the mid-terms.
I wonder if everyone knows there is no income cap on these credits. Folks making 500K or more/year have access to them. This was a Covid situation and we are beyond that now. Needs to be fixed somehow.
But yeah.....whomever gets the government going again while still addressing these ridiculous increases will likely win the mid-terms. So we'll see.
I dunno, Bazza. Both sides will claim victory after this and the tribalists will totes believe them. Also, most voters have the attention span of a goldfish. I just can't bring myself to believe they will remember this next November.
Guess we will see what happens, Jazzman.
It's a long ways until the mid-terms but right now I don't see any other national issues up for grabs - but if these rate hikes go through......watch out! If I'm in charge of a political campaign.....I would be making health care the center of my campaign.
BREAKING: Speaker Johnson is FURIOUS after learning that Schumer plans to keep the government closed until AFTER an Antifa-involved "No Kings" rally in DC on Oct. 18
"It's being told to us they can't reopen the government until after that rally, because they can't face their rabid base!"
"They have a Hate America rally scheduled for Oct. 18 on the National Mall. Pro-Hamas, Antifa people, they're all coming out. House Democrats selling T-shirts for the event."
"I have HAD it with these people. They're playing games with real people's lives."
Absolutely disgusting.
"It's being told to us they can't reopen the government until after that rally, because they can't face their rabid base!"
"They have a Hate America rally scheduled for Oct. 18 on the National Mall. Pro-Hamas, Antifa people, they're all coming out. House Democrats selling T-shirts for the event."
"I have HAD it with these people. They're playing games with real people's lives."
Absolutely disgusting.
Marjorie Taylor Greene ‘putting blame’ on GOP congressional leaders for shutdown
Johnson’s claim has no factual basis. The “No Kings” rally is a pro-democracy event, not an Antifa or pro-Hamas gathering. Framing it that way says more about his discomfort with democratic activism than about the rally itself.
This sounds very much like a right wing "take an ounce of fact and spin a nonsense story off it" to me.
"Hate America rally" Really? Total and complete rabid nonsense.
Antifa people are generally Anti-Fascist, and those Antifa are by definition, fighting the same type of fascists at home that we fought and beat in WWII. I know the right wing media system has spun them into monsters that eat babies by now, but what's good about NOT being Anti-Fascist? Most antifa actions are non-violent. Are all actions by them good? Nope, but they are simply not terrorists, unlike the Proud Boys.
Antifa (United States) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Proud Boys - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
No question Johnson was throwing in a ton of hyperbole, but that doesn't mean he's wrong about Chuck. I honestly don't know, so it will be interesting to follow since we're all watching anyway.This sounds very much like a right wing "take an ounce of fact and spin a nonsense story off it" to me.
"Hate America rally" Really? Total and complete rabid nonsense.
Antifa people are generally Anti-Fascist, and those Antifa are by definition, fighting the same type of fascists at home that we fought and beat in WWII. I know the right wing media system has spun them into monsters that eat babies by now, but what's good about NOT being Anti-Fascist? Most antifa actions are non-violent. Are all actions by them good? Nope, but they are simply not terrorists, unlike the Proud Boys.
Antifa (United States) - Wikipedia
Proud Boys - Wikipedia
And by the way, Wiki is not a credible source for anything political. Every teacher, instructor and professor I know will not allow it to be used as a source. One of the co-founders (Larry Sanger) has come out and admitted that U.S. Intel does a frightening amount of the editing.
A new Noem video is being played at airports trashing Democrats.
Yet another blatant Hatch Act violation by Dear Leader's administration. The law doesn't matter to Republicans.
Flew home today after a trip this week - I thanked the TSA workers for their professionalism despite what they were facing. And despite some news reports from various sources, TSA screening was impeccable (and fast) all flights were on time.
I feared there might be delays and such, but it was honestly one of the smoothest travel days I've ever had.
I feared there might be delays and such, but it was honestly one of the smoothest travel days I've ever had.
yes, but it all goes back to the glory days of shameless distorting, er, I mean objective reporting that said, "Bill Clinton routed the Republicans in the shutdowns." And as I've pointed out, he didn't really, that was media spin. The public TENDS to blame (dare I say it?) "both sides" when the government is shut down.
But because it's politics, there "has" to be a winner and a loser in media coverage.
Poll finds more people are starting to blame Democrats for shutdown
Americans are more likely to blame Republicans than Democrats for the ongoing government shutdown, but a new YouGov/The Economist poll shows that gap is beginning to narrow.
Only 6 points separate the parties in this week’s poll, which shows 39 percent of surveyed Americans blame President Trump and the Republicans in Congress for the shutdown, while 33 percent blame the Democrats in Congress.
Last week, 11 points separated the two sides, with 41 percent of respondents blaming Trump and the GOP in Congress, and 30 percent blaming their Democratic counterparts.
In the latest poll, 20 percent say they blame both sides equally — down from 23 percent last week.
The shift in polling data comes as the government is about to enter its third week of a shutdown, with the standoff between the two parties showing no sign of waning anytime soon.
Americans are more likely to blame Republicans than Democrats for the ongoing government shutdown, but a new YouGov/The Economist poll shows that gap is beginning to narrow.
Only 6 points separate the parties in this week’s poll, which shows 39 percent of surveyed Americans blame President Trump and the Republicans in Congress for the shutdown, while 33 percent blame the Democrats in Congress.
Last week, 11 points separated the two sides, with 41 percent of respondents blaming Trump and the GOP in Congress, and 30 percent blaming their Democratic counterparts.
In the latest poll, 20 percent say they blame both sides equally — down from 23 percent last week.
The shift in polling data comes as the government is about to enter its third week of a shutdown, with the standoff between the two parties showing no sign of waning anytime soon.
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