"A Time to Kill" (movie)

Probius

Hall of Fame
Mar 19, 2004
6,786
2,231
287
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Birmingham, Alabama
This is the plot summary from IMDB.com
"In Canton, Mississippi, 10-year-old Tonya Hailey is viciously brutalized by two white racist rednecks -- James Louis "Pete" Willard and Billy Ray Cobb. Almost immediately after Tonya is found and rushed to a hospital, Pete and Billy Ray are found at a roadside bar, where they had been bragging about what they did to Tonya. Tonya's understandably distraught and enraged father, Carl Lee Hailey, remembers a case from a year ago, when four white men raped an African-American girl in a nearby town, and got acquitted. Carl is determined to not let that happen in this case. While deputy Dwayne Powell Looney is escorting Pete and Billy Ray up a flight of stairs to a court room, Carl emerges from the building's basement with an assault rifle, and he kills Pete and Billy Ray for what they did to Tonya. Carl is later arrested at his house by African-American sheriff Ozzie Walls, and Carl is scheduled to be placed on trial. Despite the efforts of the NAACP and local African-American leaders to persuade Carl to choose some of their high-powered attorneys, Carl wants to be represented by his friend Jake Tyler Brigance, who has a wife named Carla and a daughter named Hannah. Presiding over the trial is white judge Omar Noose, and the prosecution attorney is Rufus Buckley, who would like nothing more than to win the case and swim in the publicity that a win would generate, because Rufus realizes that a murder conviction could help him gain higher office. Helping Jake on the case are his former law professor Lucien Wilbanks, fellow attorney Harry Rex Vonner, and law student Ellen Roark. Ellen has had experience with death penalty cases, and that's exactly what Rufus may be seeking. To start things off, Noose denies bail and denies Jake's petition for a change of venue. Carl has also been fired from his job. Billy Ray Cobb's brother Freddie Lee Cobb wants revenge on Carl, so Freddy gets the help of the Mississippi branch of the KKK, led by Mississippi grand dragon Stump Sisson. Carl's wife Gwen tells Carl that a doctor has said that because of Pete and Billy Ray, Tonya's reproductive organs are damaged enough to where she won't be able to have kids when she grows up. That night, a KKK member is found trying to plant a bomb under Jake's porch. Jake's secretary Ethel Twitty and her husband Bud are also attacked by the KKK. Still, Jake, Harry, Lucien, and Ellen continue to help Carl. On the day the trial begins, there is a riot outside the court building between the KKK and the area's African-American residents, and Stump Sisson is killed by a molotov cocktail that was dropped from a roof by one of Carl's sons, who was not seen dropping it. Freddy and the KKK start burning crosses throughout Canton, and one of the crosses burns Jake's house down while Jake and his family are not home. As a result, the National Guard is called to Canton to keep the peace during the trial. But Freddy is not about to let that stop him. While Freddy continues his efforts to get revenge on Carl for Billy Ray's death, Carl's attorneys put everything they've got into Carl's defense. Written by Todd Baldridge

The story of a black man's struggle for justice for himself and his family in America today. After Carl Lee's 10-year-old daughter, Tonya is brutally raped he recalls the case of "four white boys who raped a black girl over in Delta last year." He asks attorney Jake Brigance, "They got off, didn't they?" Jake nods his head. Determined to see that the two rapists get what's coming to them, Carl Lee takes the law into his own hands and guns them down in cold blood inside the courthouse on the day of their arraignments. Young Jake, struggling to keep his law practice afloat, suddenly finds himself defending Carl Lee against murder charges a not-so-popular position with some of the locals in Clanton, Mississippi. Ellen Roark, a stellar law student from Ole Miss, offers her services to Jake just for the opportunity to help with the case and eventually convinces him to take her on. In the meantime, the K.K.K. (at the prompting of a brother of one of the rapists) plants burning crosses on Jake's lawn, attempts to bomb his house, and takes a shot at him. To ensure their safety, Jake sends his wife and little daughter to Gulfport to stay with his in-laws. As tension in Canton reaches fever pitch and the N.A.A.C.P. and K.K.K. riot on the courthouse lawn, a different kind of tension rises between Jake and Ellen. Written by Mark Fleetwood <mfleetwo@mail.coin.missouri.edu>

When Tonya Hailey, an innocent little African-American girl is raped and beaten by 2 beer-guzzling rednecks, the town of Clanton, Mississippi is shocked. Her father Carl Lee Hailey is outraged, and figuring he could not see those boys set free, decides to take justice into his own hands and kills them in the court house, in front of numerous witnesses. Now it up to Jake Brigance to get Carl Lee off the hook. He has people that help him, but he is up against tough D.A. Rufus Buckley. Will he be able to prove that a black man can get a fair trial in Mississippi? Written by Alexis <LSmith6135@aol.com>

A young, attractive and highly-skilled attorney is faced with the toughest case of his life, one that on many occasions may also threaten it. In the southern Mississippi town of Clanton, the K.K.K. is active and the tension is high when the black majority is angered at the rape and beating of a black man's 10-year-old daughter. Against Jake's advice, the distraught father takes revenge, gunning down the two criminals in the local courthouse. Racial hatred heightens with the suspense and conflict threatens to break out regardless of the verdict. Jake must decide, along with his new, eager assistant whether he and his family can run the risk of defending the man." Written by Paul Chard <tox@msn.com>


So Carl Lee clearly killed two men and in the end he is set free. I get that the men were terrible but does that mean they deserved to die? Doesn't every man and woman in this country deserve a fair trial? Carl Lee took the law into his own hands and committed premeditated murder, yet this movie glorifies him for this. This one point was never made in the movie. If this man believed he could not have attained justice in a court room because he was black, then why is he in this court room seeking justice? This movie is an attack on our entire justice system, yet all I hear is that this is a movie about ending racism. Help me out here. Surely y'all don't buy that garbage, do you?
 
This is the plot summary from IMDB.com
"In Canton, Mississippi, 10-year-old Tonya Hailey is viciously brutalized by two white racist rednecks -- James Louis "Pete" Willard and Billy Ray Cobb. Almost immediately after Tonya is found and rushed to a hospital, Pete and Billy Ray are found at a roadside bar, where they had been bragging about what they did to Tonya. Tonya's understandably distraught and enraged father, Carl Lee Hailey, remembers a case from a year ago, when four white men raped an African-American girl in a nearby town, and got acquitted. Carl is determined to not let that happen in this case. While deputy Dwayne Powell Looney is escorting Pete and Billy Ray up a flight of stairs to a court room, Carl emerges from the building's basement with an assault rifle, and he kills Pete and Billy Ray for what they did to Tonya. Carl is later arrested at his house by African-American sheriff Ozzie Walls, and Carl is scheduled to be placed on trial. Despite the efforts of the NAACP and local African-American leaders to persuade Carl to choose some of their high-powered attorneys, Carl wants to be represented by his friend Jake Tyler Brigance, who has a wife named Carla and a daughter named Hannah. Presiding over the trial is white judge Omar Noose, and the prosecution attorney is Rufus Buckley, who would like nothing more than to win the case and swim in the publicity that a win would generate, because Rufus realizes that a murder conviction could help him gain higher office. Helping Jake on the case are his former law professor Lucien Wilbanks, fellow attorney Harry Rex Vonner, and law student Ellen Roark. Ellen has had experience with death penalty cases, and that's exactly what Rufus may be seeking. To start things off, Noose denies bail and denies Jake's petition for a change of venue. Carl has also been fired from his job. Billy Ray Cobb's brother Freddie Lee Cobb wants revenge on Carl, so Freddy gets the help of the Mississippi branch of the KKK, led by Mississippi grand dragon Stump Sisson. Carl's wife Gwen tells Carl that a doctor has said that because of Pete and Billy Ray, Tonya's reproductive organs are damaged enough to where she won't be able to have kids when she grows up. That night, a KKK member is found trying to plant a bomb under Jake's porch. Jake's secretary Ethel Twitty and her husband Bud are also attacked by the KKK. Still, Jake, Harry, Lucien, and Ellen continue to help Carl. On the day the trial begins, there is a riot outside the court building between the KKK and the area's African-American residents, and Stump Sisson is killed by a molotov cocktail that was dropped from a roof by one of Carl's sons, who was not seen dropping it. Freddy and the KKK start burning crosses throughout Canton, and one of the crosses burns Jake's house down while Jake and his family are not home. As a result, the National Guard is called to Canton to keep the peace during the trial. But Freddy is not about to let that stop him. While Freddy continues his efforts to get revenge on Carl for Billy Ray's death, Carl's attorneys put everything they've got into Carl's defense. Written by Todd Baldridge

The story of a black man's struggle for justice for himself and his family in America today. After Carl Lee's 10-year-old daughter, Tonya is brutally raped he recalls the case of "four white boys who raped a black girl over in Delta last year." He asks attorney Jake Brigance, "They got off, didn't they?" Jake nods his head. Determined to see that the two rapists get what's coming to them, Carl Lee takes the law into his own hands and guns them down in cold blood inside the courthouse on the day of their arraignments. Young Jake, struggling to keep his law practice afloat, suddenly finds himself defending Carl Lee against murder charges a not-so-popular position with some of the locals in Clanton, Mississippi. Ellen Roark, a stellar law student from Ole Miss, offers her services to Jake just for the opportunity to help with the case and eventually convinces him to take her on. In the meantime, the K.K.K. (at the prompting of a brother of one of the rapists) plants burning crosses on Jake's lawn, attempts to bomb his house, and takes a shot at him. To ensure their safety, Jake sends his wife and little daughter to Gulfport to stay with his in-laws. As tension in Canton reaches fever pitch and the N.A.A.C.P. and K.K.K. riot on the courthouse lawn, a different kind of tension rises between Jake and Ellen. Written by Mark Fleetwood <mfleetwo@mail.coin.missouri.edu>

When Tonya Hailey, an innocent little African-American girl is raped and beaten by 2 beer-guzzling rednecks, the town of Clanton, Mississippi is shocked. Her father Carl Lee Hailey is outraged, and figuring he could not see those boys set free, decides to take justice into his own hands and kills them in the court house, in front of numerous witnesses. Now it up to Jake Brigance to get Carl Lee off the hook. He has people that help him, but he is up against tough D.A. Rufus Buckley. Will he be able to prove that a black man can get a fair trial in Mississippi? Written by Alexis <LSmith6135@aol.com>

A young, attractive and highly-skilled attorney is faced with the toughest case of his life, one that on many occasions may also threaten it. In the southern Mississippi town of Clanton, the K.K.K. is active and the tension is high when the black majority is angered at the rape and beating of a black man's 10-year-old daughter. Against Jake's advice, the distraught father takes revenge, gunning down the two criminals in the local courthouse. Racial hatred heightens with the suspense and conflict threatens to break out regardless of the verdict. Jake must decide, along with his new, eager assistant whether he and his family can run the risk of defending the man." Written by Paul Chard <tox@msn.com>


So Carl Lee clearly killed two men and in the end he is set free. I get that the men were terrible but does that mean they deserved to die? Doesn't every man and woman in this country deserve a fair trial? Carl Lee took the law into his own hands and committed premeditated murder, yet this movie glorifies him for this. This one point was never made in the movie. If this man believed he could not have attained justice in a court room because he was black, then why is he in this court room seeking justice? This movie is an attack on our entire justice system, yet all I hear is that this is a movie about ending racism. Help me out here. Surely y'all don't buy that garbage, do you?
There's really a thread about this?

But, my response would be:

 

gmart74

Hall of Fame
Oct 9, 2005
12,336
2
57
Baltimore, Md
i didnt take it as a movie about ending racism. i took it as a movie exposing the choices one must confront when a terrible crime happens and you have no faith in our justice system.... at that point, there appears to be justification for doing what is right versus doing what is ethical or correct in the eyes of the law. i know if something like that happened to anyone i cared about, the criminals would either spend the rest of their lives in jail, or spend what was left of their short life in immense pain.
it seems we, as a nation, consider vigilante justice to be despicable. why this is so baffles me. some people are animals, and should be treated as such. they should be afforded no courtesy do to having our dna and instead put down like the feral human they are.
 

cbi1972

Hall of Fame
Nov 8, 2005
18,729
2,656
182
52
Birmingham, AL
i didnt take it as a movie about ending racism. i took it as a movie exposing the choices one must confront when a terrible crime happens and you have no faith in our justice system.... at that point, there appears to be justification for doing what is right versus doing what is ethical or correct in the eyes of the law. i know if something like that happened to anyone i cared about, the criminals would either spend the rest of their lives in jail, or spend what was left of their short life in immense pain.
it seems we, as a nation, consider vigilante justice to be despicable. why this is so baffles me. some people are animals, and should be treated as such. they should be afforded no courtesy do to having our dna and instead put down like the feral human they are.
Having your fate determined by the values and smarts of the people of Baltimore should be scary enough without having state sanctioned violence with which to do it.
 

bamanut_aj

Hall of Fame
Jul 31, 2000
20,058
83
167
52
Spring Hill, TN
I want to think that, if put in Carl Lee's shoes, I would let justice do its thing.

And it's also equally to say, behind my keyboard, that I'd kill any man who did that to my daughter(s).

I really don't know what I'd do, and I don't ever want to find out.
 

crimson fan man

Hall of Fame
Aug 12, 2002
5,662
503
232
Athens Al
I forgot what country that it happen in but it was like that kid that got caught committing a crime in one of those asian countries. He was going to be caned and with the American government pressure they were not going to do it. The reason that they went ahead and did it was because of all the phone calls and emails from the citizens because they are tired of people getting off from being punished in a manner they deserve.
 
I forgot what country that it happen in but it was like that kid that got caught committing a crime in one of those asian countries. He was going to be caned and with the American government pressure they were not going to do it. The reason that they went ahead and did it was because of all the phone calls and emails from the citizens because they are tired of people getting off from being punished in a manner they deserve.
That was Singapore, and he was not a kid.
 
I

It's On A Slab

Guest
You do know that the film was based upon a novel, which was fiction.

I don't usually get too upset over what a page-turner novelist writes, nor the films based upon the book.

That being said, I agree with Jt666: If it is my family, and someone did this to my own, I can fully understand the murderous impulse. And don't put me on the jury charged with deciding the case because I'd be voting to acquit if there wasn't a lesser charge to consider.
 

gmart74

Hall of Fame
Oct 9, 2005
12,336
2
57
Baltimore, Md
That being said, I agree with Jt666: If it is my family, and someone did this to my own, I can fully understand the murderous impulse. And don't put me on the jury charged with deciding the case because I'd be voting to acquit if there wasn't a lesser charge to consider.
agree on both parts. if i am on a jury, i will try to make sure justice is done, not necessarily what the laws specifically state.
 
I

It's On A Slab

Guest
agree on both parts. if i am on a jury, i will try to make sure justice is done, not necessarily what the laws specifically state.
When I lived in the Wiregrass, I got selected for a jury where the accused was a guy who was accused of molesting his own daughter. Because I was a father of two young daughters, I couldn't believe the attorneys didnt' strike me from the jury list.

I fully admit that I was not an impartial juror, and I believed the little girl's account of what happened, and believed she couldn't just make up the stuff she recounted. The "reasonable man" test wasn't quite there, and many on the jury voted to acquit the guy. I found out only later that there was significant bias on the part of the judge, both attorneys, that they all knew the guy and were trying to pull all the strings they could to get him acquitted.

The guy ended up pleading to a lesser charge, but the judge ended up scolding us in the jury for almost causing a mistrial. I got so p.o.'d about the judge's attitude that I went up to his office afterwards and told him that I didn't like the way he talked to us.....that I had been strong-armed into that jury even after I pleaded with them to excuse me (wife was working out of town, and I had to be there for my elementary school-age kids after school). Luckily, he wasn't in a bad mood anymore because he could have easily called the cops on me. :)
 

Bodhisattva

Hall of Fame
Aug 22, 2001
22,335
3,706
287
Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida
Someone did that to my daughter, I'd have no qualms whatsoever about putting the scum through a woodchipper.
That being said, I agree with Jt666: If it is my family, and someone did this to my own, I can fully understand the murderous impulse. And don't put me on the jury charged with deciding the case because I'd be voting to acquit if there wasn't a lesser charge to consider.
A woodchipper to avenge a loved one, but not waterboarding to prevent harm to thousands of loved ones?
 

Probius

Hall of Fame
Mar 19, 2004
6,786
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Birmingham, Alabama
Of course a man would be angry in Carl Lee's position, but the rule of law and order must stand. We cannot simply ignore the law because we want revenge. What Carl Lee did was an attack upon the law, and an attack upon the law is an attack upon society. We cannot allow that.
 

Probius

Hall of Fame
Mar 19, 2004
6,786
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Birmingham, Alabama
Dude. It's a movie. Did you get this indigent when Simba killed Scar?
I had a conversation with a friend about this movie and I was told I am a racist because I said Carl Lee should have gone to prison. A racist, really? And why am I supposdly a racist, because I believe in the rule of law. So, I was frustrated.
 
I

It's On A Slab

Guest
A woodchipper to avenge a loved one, but not waterboarding to prevent harm to thousands of loved ones?
And so ready to give men with guns the license to do that with impunity, without good reason.

Yes, I remember this rabbit hole you went down.

Welcome back.
 

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