Alabama QB competition article

[RollTide_HTTR]

All I want to do is see if Hurts has improved since Spring camp, I want to see if he is reading defense better. Has he fixed most of issues, and found a balance between throwing and running game? I'm interested in Tua as well and wanted to see if he has improved as well. I don't like to name the starter, because I'm not the coach. I want to see two of them battle it out in fall camp, and I will be fine with whatever the decision is because I believe in my team. I'm not going to be upset.

I think you are expecting too much growth from Jalen. That amount of growth just doesn't seem realistic.

 

[crimsonaudio]

As far as Ridley, I can understand his frustration on the field and I get it. I really do, but his attitude on the field and how he handled this all year round, and the mishap at the halftime during Auburn game ( if the rumors are true and I suspect it is) then that is on him. He could've handled it better and taught younger receivers to be patient and etc. Maybe the season cost him $$$ due to lack of catches... or maybe his attitude cost him $$$. There's no way of knowing what went down behind the scene.

Meh, CNS isn't perfect (I know you didn't suggest he is), and there are times he's too conservative. I don't expect these guys to keep acting like it's not a slap in the face to have a guy on the bench that can actually hit them when they're working their tails off to get open again and again.

 

[JustNeedMe81]

I think you are expecting too much growth from Jalen. That amount of growth just doesn't seem realistic.

I don't think that is asking too much.

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[BamaMoon]

But, Jalen wasn't going to run that comeback against UGA in the second half; that was all Tua. That's enough reason why a change should occur for me.

That's the only thing that really matters to me. Jalen couldn't; Tua could. End of story.

It's not like Jalen just had a bad half against Georgia. If he had been improving over the course of two years and had shown steady progress in reading defenses, going thru progressions, getting more accurate, spreading the ball to multiple players and beating quality defenses with his arm and legs this would be a legitimate debate. But we all know that was not the case. Multiple games had proven he had become a liability against strong defenses and Georgia was just confirmation of all that had happened before.

And let's not act like Tua had looked like chopped liver in his appearances earlier in the season. Actually, he had shown in just about every rep in a game that he was learning and getting better and better. While the second half of the NC game will go down in Crimson Tide history as "amazing" his performance was consistent with what he had been doing, just like Jalen's was consistent with what he had been doing.

They were just two QB on different trajectories and the Georgia game was when Tua blasted past Jalen's downward spiral.

Funny thing is, almost everybody in college football sees this but some of us.

 

[The Ols]

While not 100% on point...still somewhat appropriate...
(AHHH! Image won't load. Princess Bride:" You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.")

I don't think that is asking too much.

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[BamaInBham]

I totally agree with comments highlighting CNS' loyalty for veterans - I think that had a role when Blake Sims won the job as well. Not to say Sims didn't deserve it, as he led the team magnificently given the limitations he had, but I think a part of it was rewarding Sims for staying with the team through all of the positional changes he went through. CNS has always said that his QB is the one that takes the team with him, and I can't help but feel that'll happen with Tua should he perform better than Jalen.

Tua has already won over the team. First, you could see that Jalen was losing or had lost the team because of the unfortunate public reaction of his teammates. Not that they rejected him personally, but his performance. It was palpable/visible/clear when Tua came into the UGA game that the team, including coaches, were brought back to life. This was before he took a snap. His performance only put a massive exclamation point on that support. He has won the team and the players with whom CNS consults will surely continue to make it clear. They want Jalen respected, but Tua as QB. I can understand why some might be worried, but do fans on this board really think that one of the most aware public personalities that we've ever seen, does not know exactly what it going on? Saban knows who has the team, he knows who is the best QB. He knows these things far better than we. But he is not going to cast aside a kid like Jalen. He's going to give him every opportunity to make his statement. IMO, it is not about keeping Jalen on the hook as backup, it's not because he doesn't know who is the best QB or who has the team, it's not because he's risk averse, it's not because of loyalty to age - it's primarily because he is going to give a successful, responsible, conscientious 2 year starter every opportunity to keep his job at the premiere position on the team. Why not? It keeps Tua on his toes and shows Jalen and all incumbents the proper respect. The only drawbacks are loss of some first team reps and fan angst :smile:. And I'm assuming Jalen has no chance which is not necessarily the case. Who knows what has happened in 7 months?

Whether we're reading too much into it or not, I don't think CNS would've made all of the coaching changes that he's made (b/c recruiting was starting to falter) if he didn't sense a need to make the changes, and thus, I do see Tua winning out the job fair/square and CNS going with him for the start and duration of the season. CNS has shown to adapt (even when it goes against his basic instincts and preferences), and so I trust that he'll do the same in deciding between Tua and Jalen. I think Jalen has done a fine job given the circumstances and his limitations as a QB, and yes, like CNS said, Jalen helped bring the team to the national championship game against UGA. But, Jalen wasn't going to run that comeback against UGA in the second half; that was all Tua. That's enough reason why a change should occur for me.

IMO, Saban is far less conservative than some imagine. He has always stressed throwing the ball down the field. When he feels threatened, he loosens up dramatically (see UT in 07, LSU 11 NC game, etc.). Better than most, he balances conservative prudence when he has the better team with daring when he feels threatened.

 

[Crimson White]

I don't think that is asking too much.

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But he's had 2 years to improve. He hasn't gotten consistently better in the intermediate and downfield passing game, he hasn't gotten better reading defenses before or after the snap, checking down to secondary receivers, looking off defenders. He hasn't gotten better in 2 years than Tua was by the end of his first year. Tua is a member of the team, too, so why should we wait and wait for Hurts to improve when the other guy can already do these things, and with more reps get even better?

 

[JustNeedMe81]

Tua has already won over the team. First, you could see that Jalen was losing or had lost the team because of the unfortunate public reaction of his teammates. Not that they rejected him personally, but his performance. It was palpable/visible/clear when Tua came into the UGA game that the team, including coaches, were brought back to life. This was before he took a snap. His performance only put a massive exclamation point on that support. He has won the team and the players with whom CNS consults will surely continue to make it clear. They want Jalen respected, but Tua as QB. I can understand why some might be worried, but do fans on this board really think that one of the most aware public personalities that we've ever seen, does not know exactly what it going on? Saban knows who has the team, he knows who is the best QB. He knows these things far better than we. But he is not going to cast aside a kid like Jalen. He's going to give him every opportunity to make his statement. IMO, it is not about keeping Jalen on the hook as backup, it's not because he doesn't know who is the best QB or who has the team, it's not because he's risk averse, it's not because of loyalty to age - it's primarily because he is going to give a successful, responsible, conscientious 2 year starter every opportunity to keep his job at the premiere position on the team. Why not? It keeps Tua on his toes and shows Jalen and all incumbents the proper respect. The only drawbacks are loss of some first team reps and fan angst :smile:. And I'm assuming Jalen has no chance which is not necessarily the case. Who knows what has happened in 7 months?



IMO, Saban is far less conservative than some imagine. He has always stressed throwing the ball down the field. When he feels threatened, he loosens up dramatically (see UT in 07, LSU 11 NC game, etc.). Better than most, he balances conservative prudence when he has the better team with daring when he feels threatened.

Not exactly true. If he won over the team, then why hasn't he been named the starter? Saban said whoever win the team over will win the job. why it hasn't happened?

 

[JustNeedMe81]

But he's had 2 years to improve. He hasn't gotten consistently better in the intermediate and downfield passing game, he hasn't gotten better reading defenses before or after the snap, checking down to secondary receivers, looking off defenders. He hasn't gotten better in 2 years than Tua was by the end of his first year. Tua is a member of the team, too, so why should we wait and wait for Hurts to improve when the other guy can already do these things, and with more reps get even better?

Well, look at Blake..... went through position changes... was a QB senior year... Sometime it clicks for folks at different growth. Remember he had Kiffin, Sark, Daboll and now Locksley... that's a lot for him to deal with and ya'll still expect him to have a growth? None of those guys were QB coach who developed QBs.

 

[JustNeedMe81]

Meh, CNS isn't perfect (I know you didn't suggest he is), and there are times he's too conservative. I don't expect these guys to keep acting like it's not a slap in the face to have a guy on the bench that can actually hit them when they're working their tails off to get open again and again.

not arguing with that. I have no issue with that. I don't think CNS is perfect at all. I've questioned his conservative approach at times.

 

[JustNeedMe81]

He said already he would have transferred if he didn't get a chance at the end last year. He got his chance. As we know, he brought us back from near certain defeat after basically zero offense in the first half, combined with his play during the season, what more does he have to prove. So if he's planned to transfer, got his chance and proved himself, then that doesn't even make a difference, of course he'll transfer. It's a pie in the sky attitude to think he wouldn't. Why in the world would he sit on the bench, behind a far inferior player, when he could be playing somewhere, proving himself for an eventual NFL contract? Things have changed. Elite quarterbacks don't sit on the bench anymore waiting for a single season to show their ware.

Don't think you heard the whole transfer story: Read here: https://www.seccountry.com/alabama/tua-tagovailoa-explains-transfer-comments

[I kind of got the wrong end when I saw it on ESPN,” Tagovailoa told Simone Eli of CBS 42 in Birmingham, Ala. “I think they most definitely took it out of context saying if I didn’t play, I would’ve left and what not. And I think sometimes if you don’t stick it in, like what I said, if you don’t stick it in, if you just keep giving up, you won’t see the end result and what God has prepared, which is the blessing. I don’t think I would’ve experienced it if I left.





“I was talking about Fourth Quarter [conditioning program for incoming freshmen] more so. When we’re doing the first day of Fourth Quarter, I wanted to leave; I called my dad, I called back home and I told him I wanted to go to USC. … After our running, I come back to the dorm that night after tutoring and I call my dad and I tell him, ‘Dad, we’ve got to go. I can’t do this.’ I mean, if I just didn’t stick it in through that whole time during Fourth Quarter, during spring ball, during camp and then during the season, I don’t think me and you would’ve been here talking right now.”
/QUOTE]

 

[Crimson White]

Well, look at Blake..... went through position changes... was a QB senior year... Sometime it clicks for folks at different growth. Remember he had Kiffin, Sark, Daboll and now Locksley... that's a lot for him to deal with and ya'll still expect him to have a growth? None of those guys were QB coach who developed QBs.

No offense, but you're ignoring the part about why should we wait and wait for Hurts to improve (I don't think it's in him, and never will be) when we already have a guy that is better at all those things and much more likely to improve getting more repetitions.

Why that? Why wait for something that might never happen when you have that already just sitting there.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I don't think that is asking too much.

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We saw during the spring game he basically hadn't improved any. He was still struggling with processing the defense and getting the ball out on time and making the correct read. The gap between the two qb's isn't impossible to close. But I think it's impossible to before the season starts.

 

[JustNeedMe81]

No offense, but you're ignoring the part about why should we wait and wait for Hurts to improve (I don't think it's in him, and never will be) when we already have a guy that is better at all those things and much more likely to improve getting more repetitions.

Why that? Why wait for something that might never happen when you have that already just sitting there.

None taken. Let me ask you this: We waited for Offensive Line to develop the last two years... We've complained about Brent key. We've said Leatherwood should've been a starter. Cotton should've been benched many times.

My point is... How many times have you seen a player struggling for 2 years only to become real good the last two years. Tua is better than Jalen, but can he take care of the ball? Will he throw less interception? Improve decision making on the field? Yes he won the 2nd half of the game for us, but he also had plenty of bonehead moments. SO That's why I've kept preaching to everyone for long time, to let it play out... Let's see how much growth both of the guys had over the summer and heading into the fall camp. Let the fall camp decide who will start. Be patient, and let's see what happens.

 

[JustNeedMe81]

We saw during the spring game he basically hadn't improved any. He was still struggling with processing the defense and getting the ball out on time and making the correct read. The gap between the two qb's isn't impossible to close. But I think it's impossible to before the season starts.

No offense, but do we really want to use Spring camp as an example given how our previouis QBs struggled bad at A-day?

yes, he didn't play well and I think his confidence was an issue at that time.

 

[JustNeedMe81]

Everyone is on Tua's ship and I respect that 100 percent. I'm just a firm believer in giving both of the guys fair chance and see who shows up in the fall camp and go from there.

 

[davefrat]

No offense, but do we really want to use Spring camp as an example given how our previouis QBs struggled bad at A-day?

yes, he didn't play well and I think his confidence was an issue at that time.

the problem i saw was that Jalen had a golden opportunity to assert himself in the A game but instead he looked like he was totally disinterested, almost like he'd given up.

add to it the fact that he played very poorly (and his backup in the game totally outperformed him) and it was just not a very encouraging outing for Jalen.

i think he has to know that he's far behind Tua as a passer and that the gap is simply too wide to overcome.

he appears to be a very good young man with some great qualities...but he's out of his league next to Tua when it comes to his overall grasp of the QB position.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

Everyone is on Tua's ship and I respect that 100 percent. I'm just a firm believer in giving both of the guys fair chance and see who shows up in the fall camp and go from there.

I don't think anyone is saying Tua should be named starter in an unfair way though.

 

[BamaMoon]

My point is... How many times have you seen a player struggling for 2 years only to become real good the last two years. Tua is better than Jalen, but can he take care of the ball? Will he throw less interception? Improve decision making on the field? Yes he won the 2nd half of the game for us, but he also had plenty of bonehead moments. SO That's why I've kept preaching to everyone for long time, to let it play out... Let's see how much growth both of the guys had over the summer and heading into the fall camp. Let the fall camp decide who will start. Be patient, and let's see what happens.

Right now, everybody with eyes agrees Tua is better, even yourself. That's the reason he should start. That doesn't mean Jalen can't impact CNS decision if he gets much, much better (doubt he will based on two previous years but I will welcome it). It also doesn't mean that Tua "could" turn into a TO machine (I sincerely doubt that based on his stats and his accuracy) and Jalen could win back the position by default.

I guess my point is Tua has proven he's better than Jalen and should start and it's Jalen's responsibility to now show improvement enough to catch and surpass Tua. Is that possible? Yes, but it's not probable IMO.

 

[UAH]

the problem i saw was that Jalen had a golden opportunity to assert himself in the A game but instead he looked like he was totally disinterested, almost like he'd given up.

add to it the fact that he played very poorly (and his backup in the game totally outperformed him) and it was just not a very encouraging outing for Jalen.

i think he has to know that he's far behind Tua as a passer and that the gap is simply too wide to overcome.

he appears to be a very good young man with some great qualities...but he's out of his league next to Tua when it comes to his overall grasp of the QB position.

I agree with your comments but would say that CNS appeared to conclude that the number one defense can put quite a lot of pressure on a QB. That group when healthy will make a lot of QBs look bad. I accept the fact that it will all play out in the fall and one of the QB's will likely transfer in order to have the best NFL opportunity possible. It is certain that each of them have some showing of interest from other programs.