Alabama QBs in 2024

[Bamabuzzard]

Like I said we will disagree the tape just doesn’t show that he can’t read the d end. We prolly ran that play as much if not more than other plays in every game. Including the Sec title where he read the d end all game excluding the Playoff game. The tape shows it wasnt a predetermined read. He pulled it when the d end steped down the line or stunted inside the blockers.

If Saban really did say this to an announcer which I highly doubt he would give out information of that nature why would keep running the play so often and doing it so well in SEC championship.

I would be more likely to think that they took away his presnap read and did not allow him to change the play. That I understand 1000%.

This is the last time I'm commenting on this topic with you. It is a KNOWN FACT Saban and Rees predetermined the "RPO'S " and disclosed that to the broadcast crew during the weekly meeting with them. I highly, highly doubt the national broadcast crew for ESPN/CBS would make that up and spew that type of "lie" to an audience of millions. It "looks to you" he was reading the DE, but you're making that determination from a living room on a TV screen. But in reality, he's not...

 

[Coach25]

You mean this Auburn game where it was announced JM couldn't make the RPO reads and he had been guessing before so the coaches predetermined for him:

Or here where he again misses the TE right down the middle - hot read to take pressure off:

or here where the read of the field is super delayed:

or whatever this debacle was, missing the RB early, then not having field awareness to just get the first down:
https://youtu.be/Q36L7Q9GHwA?si=6g9ijo8Du3eDON_O&t=114

or here where JM didn't pull the trigger to the wide open TE (AGAIN) for a first down:
https://youtu.be/EsB1SC9Nns8?si=ypuBLIIkM6yI576k&t=66

or here where Benson was WIDE OPEN for what should have been an easy completion and good gain:
https://youtu.be/EsB1SC9Nns8?si=cDR3hjFdzXVnyNbd&t=110

So this this is where are… I understand now the RPO is not a zone read. It is reading the Mike and I agree he couldn’t process if the Mike was coming or would drop on to the slant route. I agree 100% and I’m sure they didn’t run the RPO because of his inability to throw someone open and see the defense pre snap. So we are in agreement on the RPO reads. It is just a different play than the zone read.

 

[Coach25]

The tape in the first first two clips I posted here in response say otherwise about him reading the edge player. Sure, he looks over there, but he's not making reads. The coaches told the media in the call during the week they'd further simplified things to take out the read.

Alabama QBs in 2024

Do you think Saban would have allowed that to go on and not put in backups to send a message to the players who didn’t want to let Tyler or Ty be the qb. Not a chance. To think he wouldn’t bench any player who wasn’t giving max effort is insane. That man pulled out Hurts and put in Tua in a...

www.tidefans.com

Trust me he’s making the read. The Texas one he pulls it super late when the end crashes. Almost waits too late to pull it. He’s making the reads on the zone read. Now making reads on RPO I have no doubt that they would have taken the read away from him but they aren’t the same play.

 

[B1GTide]

Trust me he’s making the read. The Texas one he pulls it super late when the end crashes. Almost waits too late to pull it. He’s making the reads on the zone read. Now making reads on RPO I have no doubt that they would have taken the read away from him but they aren’t the same play.

If he is making the read there, he is making the wrong read way too often. Either he doesn't trust his read, or he is just getting it wrong.

But that is last year. Time to move on.

 

[Coach25]

This is the last time I'm commenting on this topic with you. It is a KNOWN FACT Saban and Rees predetermined the "RPO'S " and disclosed that to the broadcast crew during the weekly meeting with them. I highly, highly doubt the national broadcast crew for ESPN/CBS would make that up and spew that type of "lie" to an audience of millions. It "looks to you" he was reading the DE, but you're making that determination from a living room on a TV screen. But in reality, he's not...

That’s fine and like I said we will but RPO is not the zone read. It is a “KNOWN FACT” they are completely different plays and instead or reading thae d-end. It’s reading the Mike. I agree with RPO pre reads. This is where I think we differ is in the play we are talking about.

 

[BamaMoon]

I agree when you have to dial back the playbook it makes it easier to defend. also the bad snaps were killer. But to say Rees tried to run plays oto Milroe strengths I will agree to disagree. To me he was bound and determined to hit the bigger plays especially in the first half. When you are having sack after sack you have to get the ball out of his hands or at least move the pocket to change the target point for the blitzers. IMO I would have run the play action through the zone read even on throwing plays and my reason for that is the eyes of the qb are up looking at the defense during the play action. This would help him see potential blitz’s coming. He could make quick read throws and if not there you have a rb in flat or he can pull it and run. This would have slowed down the amount of time Michigan could blitz because if he caught you out of position then that could be a house call run by Milroe. Rees improved throughout the year but his last three games were not his best play calling IMO. Not blaming him for the loss just would have liked to see more in game adjustments from him.

No one said we ran 4 vertices every play. I said that he tried to call longer developing plays down the field. I agree he should have been benched for those 2 bad interceptions.

As to the down pour, I agree it effects the passing game, but do you think they should have pulled the other qbs and let Milroe come in? They were given the entire game.

The zone read is not only for what you run for people who have trouble reading defenses, qbs who are great athletes, qbs who have passing flaws, as well as lines who have trouble blocking, Tua ran it to perfection. If they didn’t have faith in Milroe to run a zone read he would have never stepped foot on the field at Alabama. The concepts are basic and he has to read 1 player if you run the read option and 1 player if you do a RPO the qb has to read the Mike.

You new here??? You keep mentioning how JM should have been used in the RPO more but he couldn't make the reads.

This was discussed ad nauseam early in the year. Before the reads were taken away from him, he made some of the worst reads I've ever seen a QB in an RPO offense. There were many times he'd hand the ball off when if he would have kept he had a whole the size of a 18-wheeler to run thru.

It was horrendous to the point they finally just started telling him what to do give OR keep.

IMO, this is probably the part of his game that is the most serious. He struggles with field vision. It shows in the RPO exchanges, seeing wide open receivers in the flats (easy dump off passes that were there all year long!) and when in the pocket there were gaps he could have escaped and made good yardage. In those times it was unclear if he didn't see the running lane OR he was just stubbornly trying to pass instead of run.

This was was CTR changed the offense to cater to him starting with the bye week and LSU game. That's when plays started dictating QB runs. So the offense was changed for him. It caught a lot of teams off guard but by the end of the season, good defenses started figuring it out. That came on full display against UM.

BTW, to be fair, every QB misses reads/receivers, but it just seems JM struggled with this more than any QB Bama has had that I can remember.

 

[BamaMoon]

Last year was a broken season, and a huge waste if talent. Does not matter who was at fault. They are all gone now. DeBoer is going to do this his way. Saban is playing golf while DeBoer and his staff are working long hours to get ready for 2024.

Forget last year. Time to focus on this year. And we will all support these players and coaches. That is what we do. It is all that we can do.

So, Roll Tide, and let's just see how this all plays out.

I agree it's time to move on, but it's frustrating when multiple, well-known posters are trying to convince one poster of something in defense of JM that is FACT.

Then someone comes along and accuses people of hating on JM, but a lot of these supposed "hate" posts are simply guys pointing out his obvious flaws because somebody acts as if he doesn't have any and should be given the starting job based on how good he was last year! That's how a lot of this goes back and forth.

I keep saying it but 2023 JM isn't going to cut it in 2024. He has to change. Not little stuff. Big, fundamental changes beginning with the most simple read in football in the RPO.

It has nothing to do with the kind of young man he is. It doesn't mean he's not intelligent (I don't know but I bet he makes great grades in school) but just because you are a freak athlete doesn't mean you can't have some area you struggle in. For whatever reason, he just doesn't "see" things well. It's kinda the opposite of a great point guard who "sees" things that other people who are not point guards can't see. A great point guard sees things before they even happen. It's usually a God-given, sixth sense. Jalen kinda has the opposite of that. He struggles to see things after they happen when guys are wide open.

 

[BamaMoon]

On to 2024....I'm honestly glad we have a new offensive system and new coaches calling the shots.

After last season, the struggles from the start and the way it went (up and downs) and finally the way it ended, it became clear the offense had become our Achilles heel for the first time in a long time.

I was really concerned that 2024 would become a repeat of what happened this year. Good enough to beat most teams with talent alone, but not really scheming to beat the better teams.

That's what I'm most excited about with the new offensive staff/MO. We are going to line up talented guys who are probably "better" than most defenders across the LOS, but now we are going to have a scheme that you can't predict and that's gonna keep you guessing the whole game. We are going to have a QB that understands the offense, makes good reads and gets the ball out fast to receivers you probably can't cover before the pass or tackle afterward.

I hope the days are over that we hear other defensive teams talk about how predictable we are OR how we tip what plays are coming. I love CNS, but I think he had allowed a serious problem to creep into "the Bama offense."

 

[AlexanderFan]

Do you really think any of them was truly going to struggle at home against mtsu. That was more of a show me what good plays you can execute than a let’s see where you struggle type game.

I never said every play has a deep route I said almost every play has a deep route option. With that being milroes best weapon in the passing game you are going to have it in there for an option on most passing plays. Whether that’s the WR reading the leverage of the db or not. The bigger issue was outside of the deep ball Jalen was rarely on time for the route trees always a second or two after the break which makes it harder to feature a lot of the shorter/intermediate routes.
If that was the case why didn’t we come out and name Jalen the starter and give him the bulk of 1st string reps. Would have helped build his confidence instead we split reps with the ones all fall and said the competition could go past the Texas game.

I appreciate your effort, but you just have to realize that some posters here will laffy taffy twist reality and logic to keep from putting the blame on Milroe. You just have to accept their reality that Tommy Rees came to Alabama to deliberately torpedo Saban’s best chance at a national title in his last years, not to mention obliterating Rees’ own career in the process.

This is the only scenario that makes sense, never mind Bond telling you why he left, nevermind the announcers relaying the RPO information in a game. Obviously they have no clue what they’re talking about.

 

[BamaMoon]

JM had 2800 yards passing last year. Before the season if you were told that you'd say, "Boy we must have had a killer rushing attack." But no.

"JM was pretty good last year." NO, not historically.

The last time we had a QB with this few yards was JPW in 2007. JPW had all kinds of other reasons he didn't have more that season. Remember CNS's first year we didn't have one person drafted.

JM doesn't even crack the top 10 passing totals under CNS. Years when we had top notch rushing attacks under GMac, AJM and Coker and those QBS still threw for more yards than Milroe this year.

BTW, Penix had almost 5000 yards and three 1000 yard receivers. This is more than our two best passing years under CNS when Mac in 2020 had 4500 yards and Bryce in 2021 had 4872.

Just a little perspective on how "bad" last year was and what we might start to expect in coming years!

 

[davefrat]

JM had 2800 yards passing last year. Before the season if you were told that you'd say, "Boy we must have had a killer rushing attack." But no.

"JM was pretty good last year." NO, not historically.

The last time we had a QB with this few yards was JPW in 2007. JPW had all kinds of other reasons he didn't have more that season. Remember CNS's first year we didn't have one person drafted.

JM doesn't even crack the top 10 passing totals under CNS. Years when we had top notch rushing attacks under GMac, AJM and Coker and those QBS still threw for more yards than Milroe this year.

BTW, Penix had almost 5000 yards and three 1000 yard receivers. This is more than our two best passing years under CNS when Mac in 2020 had 4500 yards and Bryce in 2021 had 4872.

Just a little perspective on how "bad" last year was and what we might start to expect in coming years!

I think that on one of the more established Saban teams, JPW could have been a really, really good if not great QB.

He got to Bama just a little too early.

 

[HighlandOak]

I think that on one of the more established Saban teams, JPW could have been a really, really good if not great QB.

He got to Bama just a little too early.

I don't think so, but there's no way to know.

 

[BamaMoon]

I think that on one of the more established Saban teams, JPW could have been a really, really good if not great QB.

He got to Bama just a little too early.

I don't think so, but there's no way to know.

It's just conjecture, but I think he would have been just as good as some of the ones we've had.

I do know this. I think it could have been during an A-day game they had a few former players play a flag football game and JPW was QB for one of the teams. I don't know if his arm got stronger after he finished up at Bama, but he was throwing the ball with more zip and steam than I ever remember when he was a player at Bama.

I'd be willing to say he would have started over guys like Cooper Bateman and Blake Barnett (who I think was probably more talented than we thought, but he had a helicopter dad that CNS didn't like). If JPW was at Bama the year of the BB/JH first game experiment, Jalen Hurts might now have ever seen the field because JPW beats out BB probably. Would JPW beat our Blake Sims or Jake Coker? Maybe.

Different discussion, but I wonder how many times JPW or Brodie Croyle looked at some of the later seasons under CNS with Lane and Sark and wished they could have been a starter in that era???

 

[HighlandOak]

It's just conjecture, but I think he would have been just as good as some of the ones we've had.

I do know this. I think it could have been during an A-day game they had a few former players play a flag football game and JPW was QB for one of the teams. I don't know if his arm got stronger after he finished up at Bama, but he was throwing the ball with more zip and steam than I ever remember when he was a player at Bama.

I'd be willing to say he would have started over guys like Cooper Bateman and Blake Barnett (who I think was probably more talented than we thought, but he had a helicopter dad that CNS didn't like). If JPW was at Bama the year of the BB/JH first game experiment, Jalen Hurts might now have ever seen the field because JPW beats out BB probably. Would JPW beat our Blake Sims or Jake Coker? Maybe.

Different discussion, but I wonder how many times JPW or Brodie Croyle looked at some of the later seasons under CNS with Lane and Sark and wished they could have been a starter in that era???

Probably until their head hurt.

 

[BamaMoon]

Probably until their head hurt.

BC was reported to be lazy. Shula allowed that. CNS wouldn't have. I think CNS would have got that out of him and maximized his potential. BC probably had arm talent comparable to Tua. But he had bad knees too. Who knows?

 

[TiderJack]

He had 219 yards and no passing TDs against LSU. Yes, many QBs lit LSU up, but he was not one of them...

Because he ran for 150 yards. Jalen is not Tom Brady so you have to take into consideration his running capabilities.

 

[TiderJack]

Yes, I would. Just because the team is a play or two away doesn't mean anyone is above critique and without fault. Our defense won a lot of games for us as much as anything.

Did JM make some good plays? Sure he did.

It doesn't take a coach to see that JM could not read the defense pre-snap. He couldn't shift the protection and appears didn't know the hot route to go to to negate the blitz.

He simply could not make quick throws.
The coaches had to limit him on RPO because he couldn't read that.
It would be great if he progressed by leaps and bounds in the off season.
Can he do it? Don't know.
If he can I'll be behind him 100%.
My deal is that there needs to be a true open qb competition to see who is the best to run the offense and get the ball to all of the playmakers to different parts of the field.

Nothing wrong with critiquing and we did with Hurts, Tua and Bryce. We have all discussed his shortcomings at length and we all understand. My point is we almost won a NC with Jalen and he has another year to improve so I'm going to give him a chance. DeBoer and Grubb are good developers so let's see what happens. Some have given up on him which is premature IMO.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Nothing wrong with critiquing and we did with Hurts, Tua and Bryce. We have all discussed his shortcomings at length and we all understand. My point is we almost won a NC with Jalen and he has another year to improve so I'm going to give him a chance. DeBoer and Grubb are good developers so let's see what happens. Some have given up on him which is premature IMO.

And we don't know the flaws of Simpson or Lonergan. Again, all we saw was Milroe last season so of course his strengths and weaknesses are the only ones of the returning QB's we have to discuss. I definitely haven't "given up on him", I just know the types of flaws he does have are going to take A LOT of work to fix to run DeBoer's offense. It's why I think Austin Mack currently has a huge leg up on the returning Alabama quarterbacks.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

And we don't know the flaws of Simpson or Lonergan. Again, all we saw was Milroe last season so of course his strengths and weaknesses are the only ones of the returning QB's we have to discuss. I definitely haven't "given up on him", I just know the types of flaws he does have are going to take A LOT of work to fix to run DeBoer's offense. It's why I think Austin Mack currently has a huge leg up on the returning Alabama quarterbacks.

Only thing with Mack is he's pretty young right? This coming season should be his TF season basically

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Only thing with Mack is he's pretty young right? This coming season should be his TF season basically

Correct, that's my understanding. He's now a red-shirt freshman and has been a college student/athlete for one year. How much that plays into the difference between him this year and last is anybody's guess.

But I know that the first year for a true freshman is a big transition in areas other than on the football field. It's a life transition that can be hard on a lot of kids. He's already gotten that out of the way and is in his second year of college. But again, how much of that is going to help him is anybody's guess.