Exposing the Boise State myth

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KrAzY3

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I used the term myth intentionally because unlike calling Alabama's championship a MNC, I do think the term myth is appropriate in regards to the Boise State hype. Unlike Alabama, Boise State hasn't been beating legit teams. They've been playing teams that are FBS teams by only the narrowest of definitions. Homecoming foes, teams that exist in part because of the scholarship limits and homecoming paydays. If there is a myth in college football, it's that beating a team from the WAC, Sun Belt or MAC actually means something...

I was putting together a reply to a post (about Boise State playing SEC teams) and I decided it had enough relevant information (especially given a loudmouthed and good for little else congressman's demand Boise State be invited to the White House) to make it a topic:

The last time Boise State played a SEC team they got destroyed (by Georgia). I don't think the SEC got scared, Boise State got scared of playing the SEC. If they were still playing SEC teams they'd never be in a BCS game because they typically get blown out by SEC schools and have yet to beat one (and they haven't even played the very best SEC schools).

Let me give a example. Do you really think a Ole Miss wouldn't be willing to face Boise State in Mississippi? Arkansas wouldn't host them? Auburn? I think any of those teams play them at home because if they win they are given huge bonus points with the people buying into the Boise State hype.

I don't think people appreciate the results...

2000 - Boise State lost to Arkansas and Washington State on the road. Those were the only BCS teams Boise State played that year and their only losses.

2001 - Boise State lost to South Carolina, Washington State, Rice and Louisiana Tech. They did not beat a single BCS school.

2002 - Boise State's only loss was to Arkansas (41-14). Their sole victory against a BCS school was Iowa State, who lost 5 out of their last 7.

2003 - Boise State's only loss was to Oregon State, which was their only BCS opponent.

2004 - Boise State beat their only BCS opponent (Oregon State at Boise) and lost to Louisville in their bowl game.

2005 - Boise State got blow out by Georgia, they also lost against their two other BCS opponents (Oregon State and Boston College) and went 9-4 in what was their toughest season ever.

2005 was the last time they played a SEC team. Does anyone really think it was the SEC that got scared? From 2000 to 2005 Boise State went 2-9 against BCS schools. They had 13 losses during that period of time. If that doesn't show you how pathetic their conference and non-BCS out of conference is I'm not sure what does. Just to reiterate, Boise State from 2000-2005 suffered 13 losses and went 2-9 against BCS schools. By my count they were 61-4 against non-BCS schools. That's a .158 winning percentage against BCS schools and a .928 winning percentage against non-BCS schools.

They stopped scheduling SEC schools and stopped playing as many games on the road and surprise they started faring a little better. Clearly though it wasn't the SEC that wimped out, Boise State just became afraid of scheduling legit teams on the road. 2-9 isn't impressive in the least and since then Boise State hasn't even pretended to put a legit schedule together.

I have long contended (and Saban himself has said this) that the more tough games a year you have, the harder it is to get up for them. A team like Boise State does well given they have some talented players, and camouflaged field and a good coach and only a game or two a year they have to take seriously. On the other hand, when Boise State had to play against a SEC team, they always lost.

Boise State has repeatedly schedule UC Davis and North Texas as their out of conference foes. That's another part of their myth... that they are trying to schedule better teams they other teams are just afraid. Sure, other teams don't want to go play on turf that's colored to match Boise State's uniform. Who would? On the other hand, when Boise State goes on the road to play BCS schools they routinely get beat. Which is why they've pretty much stopped that practice.
 
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Redwood Forrest

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Good research. But what about their self-esteem? Shouldn't they be given a participation trophy visit to the White House? They have feeling too, you know. Bless their little hearts.

Come to think of it, Auburn should be retro invited also :wink:
 

Crimson Cat

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I don't think anyone outside of a few barn fans, Orrin Hatch, and Boise St believe they deserve anything.
Are they even in a BCS conference? I don't think so.
 

GeorgiaTider

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Unlike Alabama, Boise State hasn't been beating legit teams. They've been playing teams that are FBS teams by only the narrowest of definitions.
Why try to make BAMA look better by marginalizing other team? The fact is when it comes to the FBS there is one standard and you are either a FBS school or not. There is not such thing as being barely and FBS school. It's like being married. You are or you are not.

I hope Boise State goes undefeated and plays BAMA in the NC game next year. Not like they will do any worse than the Big 10 and 12 in the NC game.
 

silentsam74

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Why try to make BAMA look better by marginalizing other team? The fact is when it comes to the FBS there is one standard and you are either a FBS school or not. There is not such thing as being barely and FBS school. It's like being married. You are or you are not.

I hope Boise State goes undefeated and plays BAMA in the NC game next year. Not like they will do any worse than the Big 10 and 12 in the NC game.
Well, just remove 'Unlike Alabama' if you don't like it. The simple premise of his post was pointing out the fact that the WAC conference is a joke. I concur. And that as Boise St struggled to beat good competition they decided to eliminate those games from their schedule. According to the evidence presented, that does indeed look like the case as well. As far as there being no such thing as barely an FBS school, technically, you may be correct. But, if you think thats what was meant by the term, then you've lost its meaning. I think the main point being made was that each time they play in conference they're beating teams that SEC teams get ridiculed in the national media just for scheduling. Now, when conference expansion happens with the Pac10 and/or Big10 I really hope during the shuffle the Boise St is able to find a spot in a halfway decent conference.
 

KrAzY3

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FBS there is one standard and you are either a FBS school or not.
It's a moving target. For instance, Boise State didn't even have a FBS team until the latest round of scholarship limitations. Also, you can say you are or you aren't but is the Colonial? Sagarin has them ahead of the Sun Belt in terms of their ranking and several (9) Colonial schools have better rankings then the last place team in the WAC.

I say barely because their level of play is abysmal and they literally barely meet the criteria to be a FBS school, if at all. This is documented, this is easy to track and even Boise State is a relative newcomer to the FBS. Let's take South Alabama for example. From one year to the next they are going to be a FBS school. Does that automatically make them a legitimate foe? Should we crown Boise State if they schedule and beat South Alabama?

Have you even looked up the requirements? 15K attendance is a requirement yet several teams in the MAC didn't reach that (one team had a average attendance of 5K). You can tell me they are or they aren't and I'm saying by NCAA rules they aren't... I don't know what's keeping them there but they are not meeting the criteria.

San Jose State had a attendance of: 15,344. That's barely a FBS school.
Idaho had a attendance of 12,546. That's failing to meet the criteria of a FBS school. Those aren't the only teams with highly questionable FBS credentials that Boise State played. They also played Toledo (16,285), Utah St. (15,971) and UC Davis (not a FBS school at a all and not even a good FCS team either). When I say barely, the literal, NCAA definition applies.

Having said all that, my comments were not trying to make the SEC look better. Any objective observer can do that. I didn't even mention Boise State played the 96th ranked schedule this year and Alabama played the 2nd ranked schedule. However, since I brought it up mull that over. You can't even pretend it's the same level of football, Boise State doesn't even play most their games on Saturday! Their level of football is the bastard child of Division 1 football... it's the scholarship limited, WAC after the best teams left, short bus of FBS football.

There are no competitive requirements for having a FBS team. You pretty much just have to show up. If people don't point out that playing Idaho just isn't the same as playing Florida some slow minded guy out there is bound to think the wins represent equal value.
 
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dayhiker

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You're using that data to shown that Boise can't pass the muster when they play real teams. Ask Oklahoma, Oregon, and TCU if they can play football now. I agree about the having to only get up for one or two games a year though.

Also, is the using the 2000 Boise team stats a predictor for 2010 success? If so, is using the Alabama 2000 team a predictor for 2010 success?
 
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NYBamaFan

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You don't raise yourself up by tearing someone else down.

The BSU players and coaches have said that they have no problem with Bama being ranked #1. You are being played by a politician...
 

KrAzY3

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You're using that data to shown that Boise can't pass the muster when they play real teams. Ask Oklahoma, Oregon, and TCU if they can play football now. I agree about the having to only get up for one or two games a year though.
I used data based solely on the period in which they played the SEC. Looking at those schedules clearly they still had easy schedules, however, they were willing to play BCS schools on the road and it cost them. The main point now is that they, after 2005 changed their criteria. It isn't that they can't ever beat good teams, it's that they're gaming the system. Get a PAC-10 team to play them on smurf turf. Only play other foes on a neutral field. If you go a entire season (like last year) without playing a single BCS school on the road? You've got a schedule that's set up for you to look good.

They play less BCS games on the road and they don't schedule SEC teams anymore. Surprise, surprise they do well. Also, as far as Oklahoma and TCU, that's the only bowl games they've won since 2004...

They've basically managed to set things up so their season comes down to a single big game. In 2008 they lost to TCU, and that's the only thing that kept them from being undefeated.

People remember their wins and forget their losses. For instance they beat a Big 12 reject, you remember that. You don't mention their losing to the same team in their previous bowl game. To hear people talk you'd think Boise State hadn't lost a bowl game in years... reality is they are 2-4 in their last 6 bowl games.

You don't raise yourself up by tearing someone else down.
Oh come on... this has practically nothing to do with Alabama. Boise State is a absurdity. I have felt like this for a while, ever since I took the time to see the level of competition they play. I'm not bringing up facts to try and make Alabama look better. I'm bringing up facts because it's relevant to the discussion. People need to know what Boise State is doing, they're manipulating the process and calling them out on it is to be frowned upon? You of all people should know this isn't brought upon by Alabama winning a NC or what Hatch said, I've said some of these very things in our playoff discussions as well, it's nothing new and it's not driven by my feelings towards Alabama.

I don't like liars and they're liars... they could strengthen their schedule in any number of ways. Each time I hear something about them acting like that isn't the case, it irks me and I don't have to be a Alabama fan to be annoyed by that. I just have to be a football fan.
 
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jacketsntide

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What I don't understand is why you cut off your analysis in 2005, four seasons ago. Since then they've won 2 BCS bowls and are 3-1 in games against other BCS opponents. They won at Oregon, the PAC-10 champ. Next year they play Virginia Tech in DC.

Remind me what Bama's record was in 2007. I guess that means that 2009 Bama is an absurd joke.

What I think is that Boise State is trying to build a program. They're in a pretty weak conference so they play a lot of creampuffs, but it's not like they can change that overnight. They seem to try to schedule games against better opponents but I think anyone who's honest has to admit it's not easy to schedule quality OOC games. Alabama does a better job at scheduling good OOC opponents than most SEC teams, and Saban himself stated he tries to schedule ONE interesting OOC opponent per season. A lot of BCS teams (especially Big Ten!) don't schedule any quality OOC games.

Boise St. is a pretty young program, and if I were a BSU student or grad I'd be pretty proud of what they've accomplished. Not everyone can be Alabama, with a program that has been a powerhouse since the dawn of time. Calling them "liars" and an "absurdity" is pretty small, if you ask me.

You know what would be awesome? If we had a playoff and this sort of thing could be decided on the field instead of on a message board.
 

derek4tide

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Well, to all of the BSU apologists, next year we shall see how well they do OOC. Boise plays Virginia Tech @ FedEx Field - Washington DC, Wyoming in Laramie (LOL), Oregon State @ home and Toledo @ home (LOL). I see 1 for sure loss and maybe 2.


BTW, BSU is not a "young" program. They started playing football in 1933. D-1 in 1996, but they are not "young".
 
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Tide1986

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Not sure who the "they" is here, since BSU is not asking to be recognized as national champions this year. It seems that you feel like some sort of victim, here. Not sure why?

We are on top of the world...

:party:
I think I need to hear your thoughts about why Chris Petersen is the "coach of the year" and Nick Saban is not. And...please don't say because there were more votes for Petersen...I'm looking for a substantive argument/comparison that substantiates awarding it to Petersen instead of Saban.
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