Woman shot six times in hospital by cousin after delivering illegitimate baby.
http://www.jordantimes.com/thu/homenews/homenews8.htm
http://www.jordantimes.com/thu/homenews/homenews8.htm
Islam - The Peaceful Religion
- Thread starter Displaced Bama Fan
- Start date
Displaced - I have stated several times on this board that Islam is NOT a peaceful religion, and have been taken to task by several Tide Fans members.
Good luck!!! Let's see if they jump on you or if they just think that I don't have any sense!!!
They have also disagreed with me that we are fighting Islam and not just a "group" of terrorists.
Let's see how YOU fare.
Good luck!!! Let's see if they jump on you or if they just think that I don't have any sense!!!
They have also disagreed with me that we are fighting Islam and not just a "group" of terrorists.
Let's see how YOU fare.
I have read the article now several times and missed the part where it said this lunatic was Islamic or did so due to Islamic teachings. Just because it happened in Jordan does not make it Islamic. There is a big difference betwenn Arabic honor and Islamic honor. And no NAN, we are not in a holy war against Islam. That is what the terrorists want it to be. We are fighting radical lunatics.
Which are no different from Christian radical lunatics, Shintu Radical lunatics or hindu radical lunatics. All are equally evil.
Except there are a whole lot more of them, they kill lots more people, and they are (or were) supported by governments of numerous countries and a large proportion of their citizens.
Very predictable response by the way.
The worst things Christian radical lunatics do these days are protest abortion clinics and shoot an occasional "doctor". Hardly comparable. Even if McVeigh claimed to be Christian, the Christian Radicals have a long way to go to catch up with Islam.
[This message has been edited by TexasTide (edited 06-04-2004).]
Bamalaw said:
And no NAN, we are not in a holy war against Islam. That is what the terrorists want it to be. We are fighting radical lunatics.
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I'm not going to argue with you OR Lane about this anymore. You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. You will NOT change my mind or vice versa - so be it!
I proved before that this isn't the first time in history that Islam has tried to conquer the world and force everyone to be a Muslim or be dead, but you don't see it that way. I DO!!!
This is all I have to say on the subject.
And no NAN, we are not in a holy war against Islam. That is what the terrorists want it to be. We are fighting radical lunatics.
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I'm not going to argue with you OR Lane about this anymore. You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. You will NOT change my mind or vice versa - so be it!
I proved before that this isn't the first time in history that Islam has tried to conquer the world and force everyone to be a Muslim or be dead, but you don't see it that way. I DO!!!
This is all I have to say on the subject.
Well BamaLaw92, I hope you are sitting down because I am going to agree with you on this subject. Our fight is not against Islam but rather against radicals who use the Islamic faith as a background for their terror tactics. I may not agree with Islamic law but they also have the right to disagree with Christian law. All of those who disagree with Christian law and values are not terrorist. If we are going to consider this a war against Islam, we need to leave Iraq and Afghanistan now as we would have no hope of defeating the religion. We have hopes of defeating the terrorist lunatics who hide behind the religion. To go against all of Islam would invoke a new Crusade that would pit one religion against the other in a long and fruitless battle. It's the lunatics we want and who the Arab governments want also. The terrorist organizations attacking America now are as big of a threat to Arab governments who fear their influence over the population as they are to the Western World. The U.S. has gone to great lengths to convince Arabs that we are not attacking Islam but rather Islamic terrorist. President Bush realized this when he withdrew his comment at the start of the war that America was on a 'crusade' to free the Iraqi people. Our goal as he now states is to bring them freedom,not from Islam but from tyranny.
[This message has been edited by ed4tide4u2 (edited 06-04-2004).]
So you feel that all Muslims are inherently evil? If so, what is your solution? Erradicate Islam from the face of the planet? I am glad you know me so well that you can predict my responses
Actually if you review history, the Islam radicals have a long way to go to catch up to the atrocities committed by so-called "Christians", but that is another debate. The point being, it matters not wht religion is being perverted, the acts of the radicals of that religion (and no the majority of Muslims are not radicals) do not condemn the entire religion.
[This message has been edited by TexasTide (edited 06-04-2004).][/QUOTE]
No, we are not in a holy war with Islam. But Islam is in a holy war with us. It is to our disadvantage and great peril that we refuse to recognize the enemy.
I thought we already agreed to that.
You never "proved" it because it simply isn't true. Believe what you want, hwever inaccurate it may be. Your only solution is "kill all the Muslims" and force them to be Christian. Pretty hypocritical don't you think?
Promise?
Still waiting to see where the article says this man was a Muslim following Islamic Law. I am sure Christ would sanction an all out war aginst Islam.
When it comes to killing in the name of religion both sides are guilty. We have the Crusades and the conflict in N. Ireland as prime examples of Christians killing in the name of religion. There is a movie out now: Megiddo-Omega 2,(available at Christian bookstores and at TBN.org-Trinity Broadcasting Network) that is about the final battle of Armageddon where many infidels will have to die in the name of God. It is a very good movie and I recommend all see it. The most prominent religion now seems to be Hypocrisy. Neither religion can say that there has not been a lot of death in their name. That is the reason for the Final Battle. On that day, when the death is over, a new world will emerge that has only one religion and no conflicts among bickering groups.
[This message has been edited by ed4tide4u2 (edited 06-04-2004).]
It is easy to take verses out of context and make them say what you want to believe. I can do that with the Old Testament as well as the New (especially the Book of Revelation). Let me discuss Islam's pacifism.
According to the Qur’an, war represents an “unwanted obligation” which has to be absolutely carried out with strict observance of particular humane and moral values and resorted to only when it is inevitable.
In a verse, it is explained that those who start wars are the disbelievers and that God does not approve wars:
[…Each time they kindle the fire of war, Allah extinguishes it. They rush about the earth corrupting it. Allah does not love corrupters.] (Surat Al-Ma’idah 5:64)
A closer examination of Prophet Muhammad’s life reveals that war is a method resorted to for defensive purposes only in unavoidable situations.
The revelation of the Qur’an to Prophet Muhammad lasted for 23 years. During the first 13 years of this period, Muslims lived as a minority under a pagan rule in Makkah and faced much oppression. Many Muslims were harassed, abused, tortured, and even murdered, their houses and possessions were plundered. Despite this, Muslims led their lives without resorting to any violence and always called pagans to peace.
When the oppression of pagans escalated unbearably, Muslims emigrated to the town of Yathrib, which was later to be renamed Madinah, where they could establish their own order in a more friendly and free environment. Even establishing their own political system did not prompt them to take up weapons against aggressive pagans of Makkah. Only after the following revelation, the Prophet commanded his people to get prepared for war:
[Permission to fight is given to those who are fought against because they have been wronged - truly God has the power to come to their support - those who were expelled from their homes without any right, merely for saying, ‘Our Lord is God’…] (Surat Al-Hajj 22:39-40)
In brief, Muslims were allowed to wage war only because they were oppressed and subjected to violence. To put it in another way, God granted permission for war only for defensive purposes. In other verses, Muslims are warned against use of unnecessary provocation or unnecessary violence:
[Fight in the Way of God against those who fight you, but do not go beyond the limits. God does not love those who go beyond the limits.] (Surat Al-Baqarah 2:190)
After the revelations of these verses, wars occurred between Muslims and pagan Arabs. In none of these wars, however, were the Muslims the inciting party.
Furthermore, Prophet Muhammad established a secure and peaceful social environment for Muslims and pagans alike by signing a peace agreement (Hudaybiya) which conceded to the pagans most of their requests. The party who violated the terms of the agreement and started a new war was again the pagans.
However, with rapid conversions into Islam, the Islamic armies attained great power against the pagan Arabs and Prophet Muhammad conquered Makkah without bloodshed and in a spirit of tolerance. If he willed, he could have taken revenge on pagan leaders in the city. Yet, he did not do harm to any one of them, forgave them and treated them with the utmost tolerance. Pagans, who would later convert to Islam by their own will, spoke admiringly of the noble character of the Prophet.
The Islamic principles God proclaims in the Qur’an account for this peaceful and temperate policy of Prophet Muhammad. In the Qur’an, God commands believers to treat even the non-Muslims kindly and justly:
[...God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you over religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just. God merely forbids you from taking as friends those who have fought you over religion and driven you from your homes and who supported your expulsion...] (Surat Al-Mumtahanah 60:8-9)
The verses above specify the outlook of a Muslim on non-Muslims: A Muslim should treat all non-Muslims kindly and avoid making friends only with those who show enmity to Islam. In case this enmity causes violent attacks against the existence of Muslims, that is, in case they wage a war against them, then Muslims should respond them justly by considering the humane dimensions of the situation. All forms of barbarism, unnecessary acts of violence and unjust aggression are forbidden by Islam.
In another verse, God warns Muslims against this and explains that rage felt for enemies should not cause them to drift them into injustice:
[You who believe! Show integrity for the sake of God, bearing witness with justice. Do not let hatred for a people incite you into not being just. Be just. That is closer to heedfulness. Heed God (alone). God is aware of what you do.] (Surat Al-Ma’idah 5:8)
The Meaning of “Jihad”
Another concept that deserves clarification is that of “jihad”.
The exact meaning of “jihad” is “effort”. That is, in Islam, “to carry out jihad” is “to show efforts, to struggle”. Prophet Muhammad explained that “the greatest jihad is the one a person carries out against his lower soul”. What is meant by “lower soul” here is the selfish desires and ambitions. A struggle given on intellectual grounds against anti-religious, atheist views is also a form of jihad in its complete sense.
Apart from these ideological and spiritual meanings, struggle in the physical sense is also considered as “jihad”. However, as explained above, this has to be a struggle carried out solely for defensive purposes. The use of the concept of “jihad” for acts of aggression against innocent people, that is for terror, would be unjust and a great distortion.
Compassion, Tolerance and Pacifism in Islam
The Islamic political doctrine is both peaceful and moderate. The British historian, Karen Armstrong, a former nun and a renowned expert on Middle East history, wrote in her book, Holy War, in which she examines the history of the three great divine religions:
... The word Islam comes from the same Arabic root as the word peace and the Qur’an condemns war as an abnormal state of affairs opposed to God’s will: “When the enemies of the Muslims kindle a fire for war, Allah extinguishes it. They strive to create disorder in earth, and Allah loves not those who create disorder.” (Qur’an 28:78). Islam does not justify a total aggressive war or extermination, as the Torah does in the first five books of the Bible. Islam recognizes that war is inevitable and sometimes a positive duty in order to end oppressions and suffering. The Qur’an teaches that war must be limited and be conducted in as humane a way of possible. Mohammed had to fight not only the Meccans but also the Jewish tribes in the area and Christian tribes in Syria who planned on offensive against him in alliance with the Jews. Yet this did not make Mohammed denounce the People of the Book. His Muslims were forced to defend themselves but they were not fighting a holy war against the religion of their enemies. When Mohammed sent his freedman Zaid against the Christians at the head of a Muslim army, he told them to fight in the cause of God bravely but humanely. They must not molest priests, monks and nuns nor the weak and helpless people who were unable to fight. There must be no massacre of civilians nor should they cut down a single tree nor pull down any building. This was very different from the wars of Joshua.
Following the death of Prophet Muhammad, Muslims continued to treat the members of other religions with tolerance and respect. Islamic states became the secure and free home of both Jews and Christians. After the conquest of Jerusalem, Caliph Omar calmed the Christians who were in fear of a massacre and explained to them that they were secure. Furthermore, he visited their churches and declared that they could continue to practice their worship freely.
In 1099, four centuries after the conquest of Jerusalem by Muslims, Crusaders invaded Jerusalem and put all Muslim inhabitants to the sword. Again, contrary to the fears of Christians, Salah El-Deen, the Muslim general who captured Jerusalem and saved the city from invasion in 1187, did not touch even a single civilian and did not allow a single soldier to plunder. Moreover, he allowed the invading Christians to take all their possessions and leave the city in security. The periods of Seljuk Turks and the Ottoman Empire were also marked by the tolerance and justice of Islam. As is known, Jews who were expelled from Catholic Spain found the peace they sought on the lands of Ottoman Empire, where they took refuge in 1492. Sultan Mehmed, the conqueror of Istanbul, also allowed Jews and Christians religious freedom. Regarding the tolerant and just practices of Muslims, historian A. Miquel states the following:
The Christians were ruled by a very well administered state which was something that did not exist in the Byzantium or Latin sovereignty. They were never subjected to a systematized oppression. On the contrary, the Empire, and foremost Istanbul, became a refuge for the much tortured Spanish Jews. They were never forced to accept Islam.2
John L. Esposito, a professor of Religion and International Politics at the Georgetown University, makes a similar comment:
For many non-Muslim populations in Byzantine and Persian territories already subjugated to foreign rulers, Islamic rule meant an exchange of rulers, the new ones often more flexible and tolerant, rather than a loss of independence. Many of these populations now enjoyed greater local autonomy and often paid lower taxes... Religiously, Islam proved a more tolerant religion, providing greater religious freedom for Jews and indigenous Christians.
Where exactly did I write this?
I didn't have to know you well to know your replies, just the tone of your posts. I also knew you or someone would once again bring up the Crusades.
I could care less what happened hundreds or thousands of years ago. RIGHT NOW, Islamic terroists are a threat to me and my family, thats what matters and if they are so peaceful how did they get the Holy Land to begin with? Why did the Crusaders have to re-take it?
From http://www.crisismagazine.com/april2002/cover.htm
"With enormous energy, the warriors of Islam struck out against the Christians shortly after Mohammed’s death. They were extremely successful. Palestine, Syria, and Egypt—once the most heavily Christian areas in the world—quickly succumbed. By the eighth century, Muslim armies had conquered all of Christian North Africa and Spain. In the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks conquered Asia Minor (modern Turkey), which had been Christian since the time of St. Paul. The old Roman Empire, known to modern historians as the Byzantine Empire, was reduced to little more than Greece. In desperation, the emperor in Constantinople sent word to the Christians of western Europe asking them to aid their brothers and sisters in the East."
If they want to exist peacefully I could care less what religion they are but the fact remains, the biggest threat to our security is, and has been for 10 years, Islamic terrorists and the regimes that support them.
Bamalaw said:
You never "proved" it because it simply isn't true. Believe what you want, hwever inaccurate it may be. Your only solution is "kill all the Muslims" and force them to be Christian. Pretty hypocritical don't you think?
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Don't put words in my mouth. I never said to kill all the Muslims or force them to be Christians, AND YOU KNOW IT.
I have nothing more to say to you unless you keep telling lies about me, and then I'll be forced to defend myself.
Don't talk to me anymore.
[This message has been edited by CrimsonNan (edited 06-04-2004).]
You never "proved" it because it simply isn't true. Believe what you want, hwever inaccurate it may be. Your only solution is "kill all the Muslims" and force them to be Christian. Pretty hypocritical don't you think?
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Don't put words in my mouth. I never said to kill all the Muslims or force them to be Christians, AND YOU KNOW IT.
I have nothing more to say to you unless you keep telling lies about me, and then I'll be forced to defend myself.
Don't talk to me anymore.
[This message has been edited by CrimsonNan (edited 06-04-2004).]
The middle-east is a violent place with violent societies. Example: we throw rice at wedding; they shoot guns in the air. In fact they shoot guns in the air in all celebrations, it seems. No fireworks for them, bullets, bullets and more bullets.
Thus their violent religious tendances.
Thus their violent religious tendances.
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