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MN cops kill man trying to get his ID out

Bazza said:
If you are carrying.......not only are you frozen....you have to calmly have a discussion with the cop on what is going to happen and how it is going to happen BEFORE you take your hands off the wheel. And then go very very slow with every movement.
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And he died because of it.
 
Displaced Bama Fan said:
I got pulled over for allegedly speeding a couple of years ago and at the time my then 15 year old, was in the car with me as we were going to a high school football game. At no time did the police officer look threatened, draw his gun or have his hand on his gun, approach my truck "cautiously" or create a situation that I felt threatened or that he seemed threatened. Now, I was agitated for getting pulled over, but I wasn't threatening toward him. While he was standing by more door, I reached in my pocket for my wallet and my son reached in the glove box for my insurance card.

So, should I have felt like I needed to avoid being killed by a cop because I was allegedly speeding? Or in this case, had a busted tail light? I'm just saying, where does this insanity end with cops drawing guns at every incident of a simple traffic violation? I know there are examples of police getting shot at by idiots. But I would argue that the vast majority of basic traffic stops are non-life threatening situations for the police and don't warrant the brandishing of weapons. Its a two-way street. Give respect to get respect. If you yell and scream at me with a gun pointing in my face because of a busted tail light with my wife/girlfriend/kids in the car in what really seems to be a complete non-threatening situation, then guess what, I'm going to start hating your guts too and I'm going to become belligerent and rightfully so. And that wasn't even the case in this situation.
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We don't know exactly what transpired before this cop fired his weapon.

If we had video of the entire incident...we would be in a better position to discuss.

In your situation, if you were carrying.....I would not have reached into my pocket before declaring to the cop that you were carrying and then asking for his direction on how to proceed. Same goes for your son reaching into the glove compartment.

In you case you weren't carrying, I'm assuming so not the same thing as what happened in BR.

I agree we shouldn't fear for our lives when pulled over. I'm just advocating for understanding how to avoid confrontation.
 
Bazza said:
We don't know exactly what transpired before this cop fired his weapon.

If we had video of the entire incident...we would be in a better position to discuss.

In your situation, if you were carrying.....I would not have reached into my pocket before declaring to the cop that you were carrying and then asking for his direction on how to proceed. Same goes for your son reaching into the glove compartment.

In you case you weren't carrying, I'm assuming so not the same thing as what happened in BR.

I agree we shouldn't fear for our lives when pulled over. I'm just advocating for understanding how to avoid confrontation.
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And the police officer didn't know if I was carrying or not either so should he have asked? My son could have popped open the glove compartment, pulled a loaded gun out before the officer had time to react and shot him. The only offense this guy had on his record was a previous traffic stop and didn't have his insurance on him. He was a model citizen. Had a job, no criminal record, apparently a family man, obviously had a concealed weapons permit so he passed a background check again, verifying he wasn't a criminal. If the police officer ran his plates, and this guy had no known issues, why did he have his weapon drawn on the man to begin with?

There was no need to escalate the events like he did. A completely avoidable, senseless shooting.
 
Displaced Bama Fan said:
And the police officer didn't know if I was carrying or not either so should he have asked? My son could have popped open the glove compartment, pulled a loaded gun out before the officer had time to react and shot him. The only offense this guy had on his record was a previous traffic stop and didn't have his insurance on him. He was a model citizen. Had a job, no criminal record, apparently a family man, obviously had a concealed weapons permit so he passed a background check again, verifying he wasn't a criminal. If the police officer ran his plates, and this guy had no known issues, why did he have his weapon drawn on the man to begin with?

There was no need to escalate the events like he did. A completely avoidable, senseless shooting.
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I don't believe police are out to kill someone. I really believe that. I believe that most are now so scared they might die, that they no longer are capable of waiting the extra few seconds to analyze the situation before they instinctively react. If I was a cop -- I don't know if I'd stop anyone at night anymore....I'd probably spend a lot of time looking the other way.....

We always talk about the impact of "society" on those who choose to commit crimes.....

It's time to talk about how to overcome the impact of "society" on those who are hired to protect and serve.....

If we don't -- and soon -- the days of "The Purge" -- may not seem so far fetched....
 
Gr8hope said:
If this went down as it appears the cop should spend the rest of his life in jail. I just have a hard time thinking the cop was stupid or racist or evil enough to just shoot him like that without cause. Maybe I am just naive about how some people can be that bad. The girlfriend was awfully calm and collected in the video she provided, which seems odd. It is just off somehow. I hope the truth comes out and justice is served. Either way, it is a tragedy.
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I don't understand how anybody can say that they have a hard time thinking somebody can be so stupid as to (insert stupid thing here). Years ago, I worked out at a gym and there was a cop who worked out at almost the exact same time I did every day. He was a complete jackass, douchebag, moron. One day he was sitting on a piece of equipment shooting the bull with another guy. He'd been sitting on it for at least 15 minutes and laughed as people who were circuit-training (working through the machines in a certain order) had to skip that machine. He'd point at them and chuckle to the other guy as they skipped it. Everybody knew how he was and just tried to ignore him. Finally, a woman in her 40's who apparently didn't know him asked him in as sweet and polite a way as is humanly possible if she could use the machine. He blew up, called her a fat-azz (cuss word), told her he'd been working out there since before she knew what a (cuss word) weight machine was and told her to get off his (cuss word) back. In front of at least 30 other people. Loud enough that there's no way that anybody DIDN'T hear it. She was stunned and backed away and started crying.

Can you imagine somebody being that stupid? Well, it gets worse. He was still kind of walking towards her and seemed ready to continue yelling at her. Bailey, the guy I was working out with, stepped in front of her to block him. I stepped in front of him and told him to back off and told him he was being something I can't repeat here. He starts cussing me and tells me that he knows I work on the road for my job. He tells me that I need to mind my own (cuss word) business because he can make sure I get a traffic ticket every day for the next (cuss word) month. He asks me how long he thinks I'd be able to keep my (cuss word) job once my license got revoked. This is in front of 30 people!

I laughed and asked him how long he thought it would take the tickets to be thrown out when all these people testify that they heard him threaten me with them.

Things people do surprise me, but never because I can't imagine a certain level of stupidity. As Einstein said (allegedly), "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
 
CajunCrimson said:
I don't believe police are out to kill someone. I really believe that. I believe that most are now so scared they might die, that they no longer are capable of waiting the extra few seconds to analyze the situation before they instinctively react. If I was a cop -- I don't know if I'd stop anyone at night anymore....I'd probably spend a lot of time looking the other way.....

We always talk about the impact of "society" on those who choose to commit crimes.....

It's time to talk about how to overcome the impact of "society" on those who are hired to protect and serve.....

If we don't -- and soon -- the days of "The Purge" -- may not seem so far fetched....
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I agree with you as well. I think this particular police officer over reacted and as a result he killed an innocent man. From the initial reports it appears the driver did everything right, if the girl friend is telling the truth. It's too bad the police officer didn't have a camera on him.
 
Displaced Bama Fan said:
And the police officer didn't know if I was carrying or not either so should he have asked? My son could have popped open the glove compartment, pulled a loaded gun out before the officer had time to react and shot him. The only offense this guy had on his record was a previous traffic stop and didn't have his insurance on him. He was a model citizen. Had a job, no criminal record, apparently a family man, obviously had a concealed weapons permit so he passed a background check again, verifying he wasn't a criminal. If the police officer ran his plates, and this guy had no known issues, why did he have his weapon drawn on the man to begin with?

There was no need to escalate the events like he did. A completely avoidable, senseless shooting.
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I feel like I am being put in the position of defending the cop.....and that is not fair.

My comments have mostly come from a general perspective...not specific to this case.

My guess is that this whole situation could have been avoided but without a video and audio of how everything went down....we don't know the details of what happened during the entire stop enough to be specific.

I just did a quick Google search and found these 2 articles offering proper protocol when one is pulled over:

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/police-stops-when-pulled-over-30186.html

http://www.wikihow.com/Act-when-the-Police-Pull-You-Over-(USA)

 
Bazza said:
I feel like I am being put in the position of defending the cop.....and that is not fair.

My comments have mostly come from a general perspective...not specific to this case.

My guess is that this whole situation could have been avoided but without a video and audio of how everything went down....we don't know the details of what happened during the entire stop enough to be specific.

I just did a quick Google search and found these 2 articles offering proper protocol when one is pulled over:

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/police-stops-when-pulled-over-30186.html

http://www.wikihow.com/Act-when-the-Police-Pull-You-Over-(USA)
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Maybe it's because you are a Trump supporter - or a Gator Fan....not sure which ;)
 
Bazza said:
I'm not taking sides.

I'm not excusing any irresponsible behaviour.
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We only have one side so far. I'd really like to hear the officer's version of events, but I doubt it will be forthcoming any time soon. He will get legal representation which, assuming the attorney has any sense at all, will tell him to keep his mouth shut.

I'm guessing he will have to file a report of the incident. Whether that will be available to the public, I don't know.

I'm trying not to take sides here, but admittedly this looks really bad for the cop right now.
 
Catfish said:
I don't understand how anybody can say that they have a hard time thinking somebody can be so stupid as to (insert stupid thing here). Years ago, I worked out at a gym and there was a cop who worked out at almost the exact same time I did every day. He was a complete jackass, douchebag, moron. One day he was sitting on a piece of equipment shooting the bull with another guy. He'd been sitting on it for at least 15 minutes and laughed as people who were circuit-training (working through the machines in a certain order) had to skip that machine. He'd point at them and chuckle to the other guy as they skipped it. Everybody knew how he was and just tried to ignore him. Finally, a woman in her 40's who apparently didn't know him asked him in as sweet and polite a way as is humanly possible if she could use the machine. He blew up, called her a fat-azz (cuss word), told her he'd been working out there since before she knew what a (cuss word) weight machine was and told her to get off his (cuss word) back. In front of at least 30 other people. Loud enough that there's no way that anybody DIDN'T hear it. She was stunned and backed away and started crying.

Can you imagine somebody being that stupid? Well, it gets worse. He was still kind of walking towards her and seemed ready to continue yelling at her. Bailey, the guy I was working out with, stepped in front of her to block him. I stepped in front of him and told him to back off and told him he was being something I can't repeat here. He starts cussing me and tells me that he knows I work on the road for my job. He tells me that I need to mind my own (cuss word) business because he can make sure I get a traffic ticket every day for the next (cuss word) month. He asks me how long he thinks I'd be able to keep my (cuss word) job once my license got revoked. This is in front of 30 people!

I laughed and asked him how long he thought it would take the tickets to be thrown out when all these people testify that they heard him threaten me with them.

Things people do surprise me, but never because I can't imagine a certain level of stupidity. As Einstein said (allegedly), "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Click to expand...

I can tell you about a run in with a school district cop I had but that would take the thread in a different direction. Fast forward a few years later, we're at my oldest son's high school baseball game and the same dbag cop was there. (now I do use cop loosely when referring to armed security guards at schools because, let's face it, that's what they are, but by "law" they are law enforcement officers). Anyway, dbag sits down in the stands and is talking to one of the moms and bragging how he had to "arrest" an elementary female because she bit her teacher. Think 2nd grade student here...I could tell the mom was getting uncomfortable while this sawed off POS was raging about his accomplishment. Finally, I turned around and said "You're really bragging about arresting an 8 year old girl and how you took her down? Thanks for protecting us from such vicious animals." You could hear a pin drop at the field. He got up and left.
 
Bazza said:
I feel like I am being put in the position of defending the cop.....and that is not fair.

My comments have mostly come from a general perspective...not specific to this case.

My guess is that this whole situation could have been avoided but without a video and audio of how everything went down....we don't know the details of what happened during the entire stop enough to be specific.

I just did a quick Google search and found these 2 articles offering proper protocol when one is pulled over:

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/police-stops-when-pulled-over-30186.html

http://www.wikihow.com/Act-when-the-Police-Pull-You-Over-(USA)
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying, but you're also saying that we, as citizens, need to make sure we aren't killed by the same people that are paid to protect us. I have a problem with that.
 
Catfish said:
I don't understand how anybody can say that they have a hard time thinking somebody can be so stupid as to (insert stupid thing here). Years ago, I worked out at a gym and there was a cop who worked out at almost the exact same time I did every day. He was a complete jackass, douchebag, moron. One day he was sitting on a piece of equipment shooting the bull with another guy. He'd been sitting on it for at least 15 minutes and laughed as people who were circuit-training (working through the machines in a certain order) had to skip that machine. He'd point at them and chuckle to the other guy as they skipped it. Everybody knew how he was and just tried to ignore him. Finally, a woman in her 40's who apparently didn't know him asked him in as sweet and polite a way as is humanly possible if she could use the machine. He blew up, called her a fat-azz (cuss word), told her he'd been working out there since before she knew what a (cuss word) weight machine was and told her to get off his (cuss word) back. In front of at least 30 other people. Loud enough that there's no way that anybody DIDN'T hear it. She was stunned and backed away and started crying.

Can you imagine somebody being that stupid? Well, it gets worse. He was still kind of walking towards her and seemed ready to continue yelling at her. Bailey, the guy I was working out with, stepped in front of her to block him. I stepped in front of him and told him to back off and told him he was being something I can't repeat here. He starts cussing me and tells me that he knows I work on the road for my job. He tells me that I need to mind my own (cuss word) business because he can make sure I get a traffic ticket every day for the next (cuss word) month. He asks me how long he thinks I'd be able to keep my (cuss word) job once my license got revoked. This is in front of 30 people!

I laughed and asked him how long he thought it would take the tickets to be thrown out when all these people testify that they heard him threaten me with them.

Things people do surprise me, but never because I can't imagine a certain level of stupidity. As Einstein said (allegedly), "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Click to expand...

Y'all should have just beat the hell out of him. I think you would have had 30 eye witnesses who would have said you felt threatened and were within your right. ;)
 
Catfish said:
I don't understand how anybody can say that they have a hard time thinking somebody can be so stupid as to (insert stupid thing here). Years ago, I worked out at a gym and there was a cop who worked out at almost the exact same time I did every day. He was a complete jackass, douchebag, moron.
Click to expand...

Can I hazard a guess that he owned a pair of these and drove a similar type of vehicle?

oakleysi-1.jpg


ram-1500-black-expre_600x0w.jpg
 
Displaced Bama Fan said:
I understand what you're saying, but you're also saying that we, as citizens, need to make sure we aren't killed by the same people that are paid to protect us. I have a problem with that.
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I'm saying we have responsibilities. Nothing more....nothing less.

The cops do too.

People should be held accountable for their actions.

When someone is killed by a cop it's very serious situation and deserves a complete picture before we place blame.

I could write pages of my own negative experiences with cops.....trust me. But I try to look at both sides, as hard as it can be sometimes.
 
I'll add, one of my best friends is a deputy in Harris County. He has told me stories of the scum he's dealt with and trust me brother, I don't want that job. I know these men and women see things that would probably make all of our toes curl and stomachs heave. As the old saying goes, walk a mile in my shoes...

At the same time, the words "civil servant" are in play. There's a time and place to be a billy-bad .... This just wasn't it.
 
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Bazza said:
I'm saying we have responsibilities. Nothing more....nothing less.

The cops do too.

People should be held accountable for their actions.

When someone is killed by a cop it's very serious situation and deserves a complete picture before we place blame.

I could write pages of my own negative experiences with cops.....trust me. But I try to look at both sides, as hard as it can be sometimes.
Click to expand...

And I'm saying I think this citizen upheld his responsibilities, announced he was a licensed concealed weapons carrier and died because of it. First blush, the cop screwed up. I may change my opinion on this one as more info is reported, but this one looks really bad on the surface.
-------------------------------------
Changing my opinion....
 
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