Alabama: Nick Saban Feels 'Really Good' About QB Tyler Buchner's Development

[Con]

Ty Simpson will be a very good QB somewhere hopefully here because the young man has it, I seen him in highschool throw a dart from his on end zone rolling to his right and hit a receiver in stride at the 50 ,talent is not the issue, I heard from over this way in West Tennessee what the problem is but of course I can't elaborate

Come on man. You can’t just do that to us.

 

[Slowpoke Catracho]

I know it has been discussed a lot but it seems Jalen is being asked to perform skills that do not match his skill set. It seems we were running an offense Sat. night that would fit Buckner or Simpson better.

That's the rub and complaint many have....not so much who's better but who fits better.

I don't buy the skill set argument. JM has had the same high-quality coaching that Bryce had as a drop back passer. JM only had 559 yards rushing in high school career. It's not like he was a triple option QB in HS. He should still be able to hit an open receiver 10 yards down the field, take care of the ball and manage the game even if he is in a pure RPO oriented offense.

 

[Oregon Tide]

Ty Simpson will be a very good QB somewhere hopefully here because the young man has it, I seen him in highschool throw a dart from his on end zone rolling to his right and hit a receiver in stride at the 50 ,talent is not the issue, I heard from over this way in West Tennessee what the problem is but of course I can't elaborate

We've heard from insiders what the issue is, as well. He can't move onto the next play - he gets in his own way when the adversity hits.

Until we hear something differently, that's what I'm going with. If Ty Simpson was the best QB on the team, he'd have played against Texas.

 

[CB4]

I know it has been discussed a lot but it seems Jalen is being asked to perform skills that do not match his skill set. It seems we were running an offense Sat. night that would fit Buckner or Simpson better.

That's the rub and complaint many have....not so much who's better but who fits better.

As is with me. It is like BoB 2.0 and the TAMU game last year. “Here’s the offense. Run it”. Very little was done in that game or the game on Saturday to put Jalen is a situation to be successful based on his skill set. No, you can’t wholesale change your offensive philosophy, but you can package stuff with the offense that take advantage of the things Milroe can do best.
And if you are not willing to package stuff within your offensive system to give that QB a chance, then play the guy(s) that best operates in the system you run.

 

[81usaf92]

My biggest worry remains QB.

Clearly, there is something with Ty where he is still having trouble adjusting to college so he's behind Buchner now.

Buchner I think could be more effective or consistent down to down than Milroe but he likely is also less explosive both from a running standpoint and from a deep ball standpoint. He also does have a history of turning the ball over so even if there is improvement there it might not be enough.

I'm just not sold we have a QB on the roster who can cover the other holes on the team well enough to get us to where we need to be to compete for an SEC or National Championship. Also, playing Texas early in the year gives other teams a blueprint on how to attack us. Not many of them can pull it off the way Texas did but there are a few who might be able to.

My personal opinion on why Jalen started these first two games? I think Saban looked at all three, and felt that there wasn’t a “significant difference” in terms of the ability to win with them. Each may have something different to offer as it relates to skill sets, but if “push comes to shove” he each possesses enough of the things they were good at to win.

So why Milroe? Tenure. He was the “next man up” last year and nothing had been shown by the others for him to say “Sorry Jalen, I have to go with the other guy…” . I think the “won the team” thing may have cemented in CNS’ mind the Jalen was the right choice. Saban does have some faults, and sometimes loyalty in one. (See one Pete Golding)

Just another gut feeling: I believe if truth was know, Buchner would have been Rees choice to start. I go back to his comment about “not being the one picking the QB” in fall as a way of saying “but if I did I know who it would be”.

I think both of these posts kinda sing towards each other in the fact that we really never had a great option. We don’t and never had a Bryce, Mac, Hurts, or Tua on the roster and we missed any opportunity to have a great experienced successor when we started the spring with Milroe vs Simpson instead of bringing a guy in pre spring from the portal. There are guys who could guide us to our goals if things go right. However there was probably an option that was far more high risk and high reward more than the others. That ofcourse is Milroe.

After going to the scrimmages and from going through multiple ironclad sources it’s apparent that there is a huge disagreement between the team and the staff at who should be quarterback. Saban chose the path of least resistance and was hoping for the best. Well now we are here.

The advantages Buchner has over Milroe is processing the field, familiarity, and delivering the ball. However there is a trade off in terms of overall athleticism and still questions of whether his issues at ND were more youth or the product of his game. So there is a risk In playing him but the risk of not playing him at this point is probably greater.


If Milroe continues to hog reps in practice and vs USF then I guarantee you that recruits and other teams will notice and we are going to sweat on having firm commitments from top talent this December.

 

[PA Tide Fan]

After going to the scrimmages and from going through multiple ironclad sources it’s apparent that there is a huge disagreement between the team and the staff at who should be quarterback. Saban chose the path of least resistance and was hoping for the best. Well now we are here.

This is a key point. There's a lot of talk about QB's who "win the team" and if you're claiming that Saban did not necessarily start the QB who he felt gave him the best chance to win but instead went with the QB who teammates had a great rapport with then we have a serious problem. A coach cannot let players decide who starts and who doesn't.

 

[oldtimetider]

My personal opinion on why Jalen started these first two games? I think Saban looked at all three, and felt that there wasn’t a “significant difference” in terms of the ability to win with them. Each may have something different to offer as it relates to skill sets, but if “push comes to shove” he each possesses enough of the things they were good at to win.

So why Milroe? Tenure. He was the “next man up” last year and nothing had been shown by the others for him to say “Sorry Jalen, I have to go with the other guy…” . I think the “won the team” thing may have cemented in CNS’ mind the Jalen was the right choice. Saban does have some faults, and sometimes loyalty in one. (See one Pete Golding)

Just another gut feeling: I believe if truth was know, Buchner would have been Rees choice to start. I go back to his comment about “not being the one picking the QB” in fall as a way of saying “but if I did I know who it would be”.

That's my thoughts as well... that each brought something different but they were close enough to make it difficult to decide who gave us the best shot to win. Seniority, loyalty, whatever... advantage Milroe. I'm thinking Rees had major concerns in the spring so he pushed for a known skill set in Buchner. But it's hard to bring in the new guy and send him straight to the front of the line.
Regardless... here we are. Keep grinding.

 

[AWRTR]

As is with me. It is like BoB 2.0 and the TAMU game last year. “Here’s the offense. Run it”. Very little was done in that game or the game on Saturday to put Jalen is a situation to be successful based on his skill set. No, you can’t wholesale change your offensive philosophy, but you can package stuff with the offense that take advantage of the things Milroe can do best.
And if you are not willing to package stuff within your offensive system to give that QB a chance, then play the guy(s) that best operates in the system you run.

I'm to the point of asking the question what does he do well but run? He doesn't throw the short passes well. This will limit him in the RPO game because you have to be able to read the defense pull the ball and hit the slant quickly and in stride. Anyone think that's JM's forte. JM throwing over the middle is a very scary proposition. He doesn't read the LB's and safeties well. He does throw the deep ball ok as far as he has a super strong arm, but let's watch him throw a deep ball and go watch Tua throw one. Tua's arm is clearly not as strong as JM, but in college and now in the NFL he is throwing it well. He puts enough air under it, but not too much and throws it at the right moment. He doesn't chuck and duck.

The types of plays he would run well is a straight read option type offense run in a hurry up fashion, and a wishbone or flexbone type offense. He would be great at Army or Air Force. You want Bama to run those plays over and over? He has no pocket presence to be a great QB or even serviceable at this point with the offensive line struggles that is magnified. He ran straight into a couple of sacks Saturday.

 

[JDCrimson]

So, I have seen mixed results from the "my daddy coached me whole life" track. If he has trouble moving to the next play, he probably has a daddy voice crawling his butt inside his head. Not to mention daddy being a coach, the coach might have been in Saban's ear about playing his son, etc. Saban probably has had a bait of it given his place on the depth chart.

From all I can gather, TS has all the physical tools and mechanics to be high level QB. But he seems to be lacking the inner confidence and maturity of sinking/swimming on his own. That may also affect his ability to build rapport with his teammates.

 

[denver]

As I posted in another thread, i think...this is our DJ Uiagallei moment...and those that dont learn from history ( ours or Clemsons) are doomed to repeat it. I trust Saban to not make the same mistake as Dabo and roll the dice that Milroe will improve with games...if he does that, our fate could be the same as Clemson suffered for two seasons

 

[JDCrimson]

The truth is, it doesnt get much simpler than an RPO offense. The passing game part of that is usually 1 or 2 routes in the same field of vision of the run read.

If you take away the run options, and the QB cant execute the pass options the whole offense collapses.

Defenses have figured out how to dismantle an RPO if one of the options is not a strength of the offense.

I'm to the point of asking the question what does he do well but run? He doesn't throw the short passes well. This will limit him in the RPO game because you have to be able to read the defense pull the ball and hit the slant quickly and in stride. Anyone think that's JM's forte. JM throwing over the middle is a very scary proposition. He doesn't read the LB's and safeties well. He does throw the deep ball ok as far as he has a super strong arm, but let's watch him throw a deep ball and go watch Tua throw one. Tua's arm is clearly not as strong as JM, but in college and now in the NFL he is throwing it well. He puts enough air under it, but not too much and throws it at the right moment. He doesn't chuck and duck.

The types of plays he would run well is a straight read option type offense run in a hurry up fashion, and a wishbone or flexbone type offense. He would be great at Army or Air Force. You want Bama to run those plays over and over? He has no pocket presence to be a great QB or even serviceable at this point with the offensive line struggles that is magnified. He ran straight into a couple of sacks Saturday.

 

[81usaf92]

That's my thoughts as well... that each brought something different but they were close enough to make it difficult to decide who gave us the best shot to win. Seniority, loyalty, whatever... advantage Milroe. I'm thinking Rees had major concerns in the spring so he pushed for a known skill set in Buchner. But it's hard to bring in the new guy and send him straight to the front of the line.
Regardless... here we are. Keep grinding.

What has happened is this

Going into the spring there was some expectation that either Simpson would take the job or Milroe would have improved. Neither happened mostly because Simpson kept trying to match Milroe’s long ball instead of just winning the short game. It made the staff uncomfortable to the point that they went after Buchner.

I'm to the point of asking the question what does he do well but run? He doesn't throw the short passes well. This will limit him in the RPO game because you have to be able to read the defense pull the ball and hit the slant quickly and in stride. Anyone think that's JM's forte. JM throwing over the middle is a very scary proposition. He doesn't read the LB's and safeties well. He does throw the deep ball ok as far as he has a super strong arm, but let's watch him throw a deep ball and go watch Tua throw one. Tua's arm is clearly not as strong as JM, but in college and now in the NFL he is throwing it well. He puts enough air under it, but not too much and throws it at the right moment. He doesn't chuck and duck.

The types of plays he would run well is a straight read option type offense run in a hurry up fashion, and a wishbone or flexbone type offense. He would be great at Army or Air Force. You want Bama to run those plays over and over? He has no pocket presence to be a great QB or even serviceable at this point with the offensive line struggles that is magnified. He ran straight into a couple of sacks Saturday.

His problem is that he has never been forced to change his game. Everyone wants to act like this is a correctable situation in which just a simple change of offense or Milroe having more film room and practice. This isn’t something that you just one day do. This isn’t some one who was just missing a guy one week and finding him the next after seeing film. This is like learning to walk. It’s Totally breaking long held tendencies.

Like klatt said… “He is just running plays and never reading defenses at all”

 

[Tidelines]

Come on man. You can’t just do that to us.

What good can come from Tennessee ?

 

[JDCrimson]

"Drive for show putt for dough" works in football too...

What has happened is this

Going into the spring there was some expectation that either Simpson would take the job or Milroe would have improved. Neither happened mostly because Simpson kept trying to match Milroe’s long ball instead of just winning the short game. It made the staff uncomfortable to the point that they went after Buchner.





His problem is that he has never been forced to change his game. Everyone wants to act like this is a correctable situation in which just a simple change of offense or Milroe having more film room and practice. This isn’t something that you just one day do. This isn’t some one who was just missing a guy one week and finding him the next after seeing film. This is like learning to walk. It’s Totally breaking long held tendencies.

Like klatt said… “He is just running plays and never reading defenses at all”

 

[westide]

If that was so, why waste a whole game pointing out the fact that Milroe is slow making reads and poor on passing.
I'm from the school that says if it ain't working, try something else, or try someone else. (There is a Coaching issue here)
[/QU
Evertbody has an opinion, but a few people that have good reputations for telling it like it is have said that they thought Buchner overall performed better in the scrimmages. It seems Milroe was a popular choice among the receivers and probably many other players. I am with a lot of people that may have had some doubts but was hoping that Milroe had progressed a lot since the spring. The bottom line is that the best player at each position should start. If it is not a popular decision then so be it. Sometimes Milroe plays like the best player and other times he plays like he is the best player for the other team. Sometimes the best motivation is riding the bench. What happens on Saturday may determine the direction of the rest of the season.

 

[CB4]

What has happened is this

Going into the spring there was some expectation that either Simpson would take the job or Milroe would have improved. Neither happened mostly because Simpson kept trying to match Milroe’s long ball instead of just winning the short game. It made the staff uncomfortable to the point that they went after Buchner.





His problem is that he has never been forced to change his game. Everyone wants to act like this is a correctable situation in which just a simple change of offense or Milroe having more film room and practice. This isn’t something that you just one day do. This isn’t some one who was just missing a guy one week and finding him the next after seeing film. This is like learning to walk. It’s Totally breaking long held tendencies.

Like klatt said… “He is just running plays and never reading defenses at all”

Which answers my question as to why, after two years with BoB and a spring and fall with Rees (in essence three years with two different coordinators) JM didn’t improve and win the job out right. JM probably didn’t develop because he wasn’t capable and TS was busy “chasing a ghost” per se.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

His problem is that he has never been forced to change his game. Everyone wants to act like this is a correctable situation in which just a simple change of offense or Milroe having more film room and practice. This isn’t something that you just one day do. This isn’t some one who was just missing a guy one week and finding him the next after seeing film. This is like learning to walk. It’s Totally breaking long held tendencies.

Like klatt said… “He is just running plays and never reading defenses at all”

Yea you could tell this especially towards the end of the game. He started to just throwing the ball down field to anyone he locked onto and seeing if it would work. He's fairly good at throwing deep so none of those turned into picks but they also weren't successful plays because he was often throwing to well covered or even double covered guys.

I think Milroe could be at least a little more successful in a different offense but that's not really what Saban does.

 

[editder]

I share your frustration since being the QB expert that I am I think TS looks to be the one with the most arm talent.

Put it this way, the problem I've heard about has nothing to do with "arm talent." It seems to have to do more with "maturity" to me, which (*if true*) kinda surprises me since he's a coach's son.

He’s looked pretty good in the few times I’ve seen him play. If it’s a maturity issue, put him out there and let him mature under fire. What’s the worst that could happen — he starts throwing horrendously bad passes into the arms of the defenders at the most inopportune time?

 

[Grogan11]

I think both of these posts kinda sing towards each other in the fact that we really never had a great option. We don’t and never had a Bryce, Mac, Hurts, or Tua on the roster and we missed any opportunity to have a great experienced successor when we started the spring with Milroe vs Simpson instead of bringing a guy in pre spring from the portal. There are guys who could guide us to our goals if things go right. However there was probably an option that was far more high risk and high reward more than the others. That ofcourse is Milroe.

After going to the scrimmages and from going through multiple ironclad sources it’s apparent that there is a huge disagreement between the team and the staff at who should be quarterback. Saban chose the path of least resistance and was hoping for the best. Well now we are here.

The advantages Buchner has over

Yea you could tell this especially towards the end of the game. He started to just throwing the ball down field to anyone he locked onto and seeing if it would work. He's fairly good at throwing deep so none of those turned into picks but they also weren't successful plays because he was often throwing to well covered or even double covered guys.

I think Milroe could be at least a little more successful in a different offense but that's not really what Saban does.

Milroe threw maybe the two worst interceptions I’ve ever scene at this level. Both passes looked like they were intended for the defender. Even a lot of completions the wideouts had to stop, drop and roll to come down with the ball. There is nothing to lose by going with Buchner. If he doesn’t work out, try Simpson. If he doesn’t work out try Lonergan. You can always come back to Milroe. This is the perfect game to try to figure it out.

One thing nobody is talking about as we look ahead to Ole Miss…for all Golding’s faults as a DC, he’s going to know exactly how to make life tough on Milroe.

 

[gman4tide]

So, I have seen mixed results from the "my daddy coached me whole life" track. If he has trouble moving to the next play, he probably has a daddy voice crawling his butt inside his head. Not to mention daddy being a coach, the coach might have been in Saban's ear about playing his son, etc. Saban probably has had a bait of it given his place on the depth chart.

From all I can gather, TS has all the physical tools and mechanics to be high level QB. But he seems to be lacking the inner confidence and maturity of sinking/swimming on his own. That may also affect his ability to build rapport with his teammates.

TS dad did not coach him his whole career. He is the head coach at ut martin. I'm sure there was probably some "daddy voice crawling his butt", but westside won the state championship his senior year while ut martin was going 2 rounds deep in the fcs. I don't think coach simpson had the time to worry about what TS was doing in high school. And i can just about guarantee you theres no way he was on the phone to coach Saban about playing time. That's utterly ridiculous. A d1 head coach calling another d1 coach about playing time. I'll say it again, TS was a 4 star recruit from a smaller school (that took a lot of heat for coming to UA). He went thru a spring (where he could have been playing hs baseball for a state championship) with BoB as his position coach, taking snaps behind BY and JM. Then a fall camp in the same position. Was it not determined that he sustained a thumb injury in the spring game this year? But he played thru it? That shows some maturity. Maybe if given the chance, he can continue to mature and improve.