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QB Competition 2018

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TIDE-HSV said:
I've said about all that I can and probably more than I should. We are just at a real crossroads in our present situation. Seeing how it turns out is going to be fascinating...
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I will say this, then 'hang up and listen.'

I think that today, right now, Tua is a better QB than Jalen. That is not a knock on Jalen. I just think Tua is an amazing talent - the most talented QB we've had at Bama in a long, long time. More talented than AJ McCarron. More talented than Brodie Croyle. That doesn't mean that he'll be a better QB, or have more success, than either of those guys. It just means that he's a 'natural' - with more pure talent than we've seen at Bama in a long, long time.

Does he need experience? Sure. Who doesn't? Does he have the 'intangibles' to lead the team? Does he have the leadership skills, the maturity, the confidence, the support of the team? I have no idea. But he's an amazing talent and it's obvious from just what we've all seen this year.

But the offense best suited for Tua's talents is a pro-style offense which has a balanced running and passing attack - much like we ran with McCarron. This is the philosophy that Coach Daboll knows - not what we're currently running with Jalen. So, did Coach Saban hire Coach Daboll, saying: 'We've recruited the future QB for the Tide. He's a true freshman and needs time to mature and adjust, but he's the most talented QB I've ever had. I want to move back to a Pro-style offense, with Tua as my QB. But it's a two-year process. The first year, I need you to work with Jalen and Tua and do what you can to develop both of them. In all likelyhood, Jalen will be our QB that first year, so you'll have to come up with some kind of offense that makes the most of his talent. Then, in year two, we'll go totally to Pro-style, which is your area of expertise.'

I know that's probably NOT the case - just my rambling thoughts. But you have to admit, it's not completely out of the realm of possibility, either. We'll see next year, in Coach Daboll's second year as OC for the Tide.
 
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Well this locker room/losing the team stuff is news to me and I certainly have no knowledge of all that and rely on some of you guys to shed that light. I do want to say this...It seemed to me that during the course of this season anytime anyone brought up anything about a QB controversy on this board it was quickly "squashed". Because of that I left the subject completely alone.
I have been an Alabama fan for over 50 years and consider myself pretty knowledgeable about football. I acknowledge and fully appreciate we have gone 25-2 the last two seasons and that makes complaining sound pretty stupid when you think about it. But, I honestly have been worried about our QB play all year, and honestly even last year, in terms of the long haul. It seems like Jalen left, Jalen right or lock on Calvin and throw it. Last Saturday Harris and Bo combined for 12 carries..12 carries! If I'm not mistaken Jalen had 17 himself. The best drive, actually the only drive, was at the start of the 3rd quarter when these guys got the football.
I seldom make long posts on here, so I'm just going to finish here...What I've watched on offense the last 2 years is not Alabama football, which by definition is winning football, and I honestly think we may be at a crossroads in terms of who we are. Folks IMHO we better figure a way to play Tua and the sooner the better or we might be in for some tough times the next 2-3 years.
I know some will not agree with what I have said, but try to respect the fact I'm giving you my honest opinion. RTR
 
Wow, what a lot of information to process in the last few threads.... All I can say is that we hope Saban can figure out something and we can get back to winning games.
 
I think BIGTIDE and Earle have hit on the issue. It's backed up by the stats (at least for running). Coach talks about everyone just doing their job. I believe that Jalen may be taking on too much and is trying to do too much to win the game. Call it eating the rat poison if you want. He's young and who knows, it could happen to anyone. I agree completely that he does not stay in the pocket and runs too soon. On the RPOs it is quite possible that he believes he is the better option when he obviously isn't. That can irritate a RB who see's the hole that was there but the QB kept the ball. It frustrates the receivers when they are running the play but the QB is late or not even looking for them when they are open. It's quite possible too that the staff knows he is hesitant and not as accurate as he needs to be on quick passes. Slants and button hooks in the mid range center of the field are very dangerous if you are late or not very accurate. I believe that the staff and Coach Saban understand this better than all of us. You can game plan and call the plays but if they are not executed than it usually doesn't work.

I think JH needs to accept that the team will win with him simply executing his job. We keep asking ourselves why they are not calling plays to his strengths or running the ball. Maybe they are and he's not executing because he's trying to do too much. There is a lot of hype out there about how cool and calm he is and that can affect a young mans psyche. So, as someone said, maybe it's time to tighten up the leash and take some of the options off the table so he isn't tempted to keep winning the game by himself. That will help with the frustration of his team mates as well. I can easily see how frustrating it could be to be under-utilized in a game. Hopefully, these things are being addressed as we debate among ourselves what went wrong and what should be done going forward.
 
Lots of good thoughts here, helping me understand why we seemed to limiting our playbook. Obviously, if Hurts starts next year, he can't look for Ridley. Will that help him grow ? I don't know. The warnings from Earle and others are disconcerting, to say the least.
 
TIDE-HSV said:
If you do that, how do you justify keeping the dual purpose QB who's not the best passer on the team in the starting role? In addition, I'm not at all sure that cutting down or cutting out the RPOs is all of the answer. Another goal has to be restoring confidence and harmony on the team. That takes action, not promises. IOW, the first step is Jalen's and the ball is literally in his court. The staff can't do it alone, no matter what you've assumed...
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I would add to your point that if you take away the option in a RPO or a zone read then what’s the point of running those plays? DCs will figure that little scheme out quickly. He has to learn to make the right read. If he’s not making the read everyone around him knows it too. They know when they’re supposed to get the ball and it’s wide open (insert WR joke about always being open here :))


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CoolBreeze said:
I understand that completely. But what I am saying is take RPO out of the equation. RPO=run-pass option. Take the option away from him and tell him to give the ball to the running back on a designed running play. If he does not do it THEN sit him on the bench. We have a QB making the decision what is best and we need to take that away by having 90% of the plays called by the coaches on the sidelines. The coaches have created this not Jalen.
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RPOs, zone reads, etc are predicated on what the defense does. For example a zone read reads the DE and based on what he does Jalen keeps it or gives it. The problem is Jalen’s not making his reads. It seems he has his mind made up before the snap. One drive vs. AU he made the right reads- the opening drive of the second half. You saw what happened. TD in 6-7 plays. No defense in America can stop our O when executed like that. Too much to account for. Too many mismatches. Taking away the RPO, zone reads, etc. handicaps our O big time especially with our personnel on the field.


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It's a difficult situation for sure. But really it shouldn't be that hard of a decision to me. I know Jalen is a high character person but he is not more important than the rest of the team and certainly not the program.

Virtually every player on the team was recruited to play in a pro-style offense except Jalen. The tension is likely coming from the fact the team is not playing in a manner that takes advantage of the team's skills which is what a pro-style offense is designed to do.

Tension may also be coming from the possibility that Jalen is not playing within the framework of the system created for him and the other players. In the midst of success in any organization, there is always that line where it's not the team's success but your success and your need to be recognized. If not checked it can escalate quickly! And the best time to make a change or correction is while you are still achieving success allowing the momentum you have to carry you over the disruption.

Saban should be focused on finishing his tenure well and setting the program up to have solid success in the future whenever that may be.

I seem to recall reading where Coach Bryant had similar choice to make regarding a player or the direction of the program. Namath, Stabler, and other names that escape me now where he had to make a player v. program decision. I have no doubt that Coach will make the right decision.



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westide said:
Coach Bryant wasn't afraid to make changes. I may be wrong, but I am afraid CNS is as stubborn as Coach Stallings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp6N__pA8Jc
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Coach Saban has always been open to change. He's changed the offense from his 1st year to the next several years, then again with Kiffin & Blake Sims, then Jalen. He's dramatically changed his defense to a much more agile and simple one. He should be stubborn to a point because he is so successful, but he's proven his willingness to change on both sides of the ball and multiple times.
 
BamaInBham said:
Coach Saban has always been open to change. He's changed the offense from his 1st year to the next several years, then again with Kiffin & Blake Sims, then Jalen. He's dramatically changed his defense to a much more agile and simple one. He should be stubborn to a point because he is so successful, but he's proven his willingness to change on both sides of the ball and multiple times.
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Of course Saban has made changes on offense and defense over the years although sometimes begrudgingly because the game has changed. That wasn't what I was referring to. I was referring to his attitude concerning his QB.That there should be only one guy to lead and direct the team. When Sims and Coker were competing one writer said, Saban running a two quarterback system is so far-fetched he had trouble even contemplating the possibility. I know Jalen is a leader and a very talented player, but if there is another player that has a skill set and leadership abilities to help the team win then he should also be given a chance to play. Like Bryant said in the video. He wasn't going to apologize for who he played at QB. His goal was to win the game. In 1973 Bama had a great offense. Coach Bryant had two very talented QBs and played both of them even in the National Championship game with Notre Dame. In the late 70's we were playing a top rated team and Bryant was upset with the first string offense. He put the second string offense in with QB Stedman Shealy. It lit a fire under the team.
 
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TIDE-HSV said:
I've said about all that I can and probably more than I should. We are just at a real crossroads in our present situation. Seeing how it turns out is going to be fascinating...
Click to expand...
Or, scary, depending on the outcome . . .
 
westide said:
If you have two talented receivers, get both of them in the game. if you have two talented linebackers, get both of them in the game. If you have two talented QBs, play both of them.
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Even coaches who will play only one QB play two at times. Coach Saban played Mark Ingram at QB several times, especially in the S Carolina game. I would loved to have seen Jaylen in the wildcat and Tua the other QB during the Auburn 4th quarter fall-apart.
 
Some of the assumptions going on here are pretty funny.

No coach Saban has never been so dependent on a qb . . . and I'm not advocating for that to change. For the record, I am pro a run heavy offense with mixes of play action circa 2015. But positive results bring a sense of comfort. . . even to greats like Saban.

Fact is this is the first game EVER where Jalen did not make plays that put us in a position to win. It's hard to win every game, every year. . . kinda impossible even, and our loss was to possibly the next CFB Champion on their turf, & it wasn't as if the offense was exposed as a fraud. . . lots of unlucky bounces, penalties, and a failure to adjust a flawed gameplan to attack the weaknesses in their secondary rather than trusting our strengths vs theirs in the trenches. Coach Saban has shown he can adjust in big games or rematches if something wasnt' working ; see SEC CG 2009 & BCSCG 2011. They illustrated it on early drives vs the Barn with the Kiffin offense. So, this whole soul searching thread confuses me.

Back to my original thought. . .This style was the gameplan, & I have little doubt that if Saban or even Daboll wanted it changed, then it would be so. We've seen CNS get into the craw of every QB he's had but Jalen, and chew out a successful Lane Kiffin during a win, I doubt he's unable to make #2 hand off the rock.

Jalen has proven to be an unselfish teammate and great leader for us. One of the best QBs in the nation overall (as a passer with his QBR and on the ground) and has made great strides as a passer this year and that will continue for the true freshman that only holds 2 losses. They likely did give him too large a role last Saturday, but it was only because he and of course the coaches thought he could handle it, not because he went rogue or can only play a certain way. A reason that CNS & staff are so dependent on THIS QB is because he's rewarded that trust with wins, great production & ball security. Not due to stubborness.

If there's an issue it will be addressed. 2015 didn't see our run heavy offense until being pass happy vs Ole Sis and losing. Then came Arky & we kept on rollin to the throne
 
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Some observations after reading this thread. Football is the ultimate team game and I know from experience no one player is more important than the team, never has, never will be. In every team sport each player has a role to play.

I recall an interview with Phil Ford, the great UNC point guard many years ago. He held many NC high school scoring records before enrolling at UNC and playing for the legendary Dean Smith. The interviewer asked him what he had learned from his playing days at UNC and he said two things. No matter how good a player you were you had a role as a team player and he said the other thing he learned was that if he was going to play for Dean Smith he had to learn to play defense. I know this isn't football, but you get the point.

Lastly I thought of a comment I heard since the game, can't remember who or where, but the comment was that it looked like Alabama was trying to finesse auburn rather than going right at them. I seem to recall a few other auburn games where we relied on finesse and those outcomes were not good either.
 
I’ll say this, Jalen has lots of positives, but some things don’t seem natural for him.
Reading defenses, getting the ball out of his hands and accuracy are issues for him as a passer.
In limited action, those things seem really natural for Tua and his throwing arm is quicker.
Is he a better overall QB though? I have no idea.
The thing is, if Jalen could develop as a passer, he’d be nearly unstoppable, and he’s still very young.
If guess time will tell, but it may be hard to keep Tua on the bench if he lights up spring and fall camp and Jalen stays stagnant.
 
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