Recruiting: Fact or Fiction

[ncbama]

I have been a regular on Tidefans for several years now. It seems as though the recruiting hype is repeated year after year. We ALWAYS have a great class coming in. Yet, something goes awry and we have break even seasons. What am I missing here?

Could someone who is really into the recruiting game address reality in this class compared with others. Is it as good, better, or much better than past classes and how much reliability is there in the analysis?

I am a little tired of having my hopes pumped up by this board then seeing them dashed on the field. Yes, I was at the ULM game and saw that team make us look like Division II. That is undeniable.

I do not live in Alabama and, therefore, do not have the inside dope. We are all fans here and always look for the best. However, somewhere down the line we need a reality check.

Right now we project at NUmber 2. Fact or Fiction?

 

[wastedmason]

I have been a regular on Tidefans for several years now. It seems as though the recruiting hype is repeated year after year. We ALWAYS have a great class coming in. Yet, something goes awry and we have break even seasons. What am I missing here?

Could someone who is really into the recruiting game address reality in this class compared with others. Is it as good, better, or much better than past classes and how much reliability is there in the analysis?

I am a little tired of having my hopes pumped up by this board then seeing them dashed on the field. Yes, I was at the ULM game and saw that team make us look like Division II. That is undeniable.

I do not live in Alabama and, therefore, do not have the inside dope. We are all fans here and always look for the best. However, somewhere down the line we need a reality check.

Right now we project at NUmber 2. Fact or Fiction?

Its a fact that Rivals and Scout have us rated #2 to this point in recruiting. You've been a Tide fan certainly long enough to know that we just went thru severe scholorship reductions recently as well as probation. So just by numbers wise we have been at a disavantage. Throw in the coaching circus we went thru and some bad coaching to boot, it is no surprise we have been barely able to break even the past couple years.

 

[AeroEngUA07]

We had problems thru the Shula era with prospects that were thought highly of that were either booted from the team (i.e. Chris Keys) or never made it to school (i.e. Mike Ford, Michael Ricks) or didn't pan out (our OL class from 2005 or 2006). That's what turns a good class into a marginal one, prospects that don't pan out which there are a few busts in every national class. Also not recruiting certain positions has hurt us as well.

 

[bamaslammer]

five factors:

1) players that never saw the field, we have lost over 20 players from shula's classes to grade or other problems, many of which were his highest ranked recruits. plus some like Ford counted several times and never played a down for us.

2) the difference between the top 4 or 5 ranked classes and a team down around 15 or 18 which is where we were finishing is pretty huge.

3) difference makers, McKnight, Devine, Tebow, We have not been signing those mega difference makers, JJ is our next target, we can't keep finishing second

4) coaching, what we did sign, Shula and staff didn't coach up.

5) lineman, we didn't get any good lineman for all of Franchione's time and half of Shula's time, thats a 4 year gap that we are still suffering from.

 

[buzzincuzzin]

THE critical factor has been the Oline recruiting, or lack there of under Fran then a top class coached almost into oblivion under CBC. It may be two years before developing quality play/depth at RT. I hope not but,,,,,

 

[rtr1973]

Here's the numbers of Rivals 5 and 4 star recruits from recent signing classes that actually enrolled that year.
(year = 5-stars & 4-stars)
2002 = 1 & 4
2003 = 0 & 3
2004 = 0 & 1
2005 = 0 & 5
2006 = 1 & 9
2007 = 0 & 8
2008 = 2 & 15

Of course, 2008 numbers aren't final (I expect the 'enrolled' class will end up around 3 & 17).

 

[tomjones76]

Here's the numbers of Rivals 5 and 4 star recruits from recent signing classes that actually enrolled that year.
(year = 5-stars & 4-stars)
2002 = 1 & 4
2003 = 0 & 3
2004 = 0 & 1
2005 = 0 & 5
2006 = 1 & 9
2007 = 0 & 8
2008 = 2 & 15

Of course, 2008 numbers aren't final (I expect the 'enrolled' class will end up around 3 & 17).

Wow, that shows that the team should be a heck of a lot better talent wise in 2009 because the 06 and 07 classes were not bad. Amazing that we won in 05' with that talent level...

 

[BamaMoon]

five factors:

1) players that never saw the field, we have lost over 20 players from shula's classes to grade or other problems, many of which were his highest ranked recruits. plus some like Ford counted several times and never played a down for us.

2) the difference between the top 4 or 5 ranked classes and a team down around 15 or 18 which is where we were finishing is pretty huge.

3) difference makers, McKnight, Devine, Tebow, We have not been signing those mega difference makers, JJ is our next target, we can't keep finishing second

4) coaching, what we did sign, Shula and staff didn't coach up.

5) lineman, we didn't get any good lineman for all of Franchione's time and half of Shula's time, thats a 4 year gap that we are still suffering from.

I believe you touch on the most important issues as they relate to the past few years under cms. I'm glad you mentioned cdf's lack of recruiting linemen too because cms had to deal with that just like CNS is dealing with it now.

I'm hopeful that CNS will be the difference maker in all five of those catagories. I've heard a few people question his game day coaching, but I've never heard anyone question his ability during the recruiting season.

 

[lostinNala]

five factors:

1) players that never saw the field, we have lost over 20 players from shula's classes to grade or other problems, many of which were his highest ranked recruits. plus some like Ford counted several times and never played a down for us.

2) the difference between the top 4 or 5 ranked classes and a team down around 15 or 18 which is where we were finishing is pretty huge.

3) difference makers, McKnight, Devine, Tebow, We have not been signing those mega difference makers, JJ is our next target, we can't keep finishing second

4) coaching, what we did sign, Shula and staff didn't coach up.

5) lineman, we didn't get any good lineman for all of Franchione's time and half of Shula's time, thats a 4 year gap that we are still suffering from.

This response is on the money. I would just like to clarify one thing. It is true that Shula did not coach up the limited number of big time recruits he had; however, placing blame on the rest of his staff (especially Joe Kines) seems unfair.

Based upon the summary of 4 & 5 star recruits Kines had to work with, our defense was absolutely stellar, especially the year we went to the Cotton Bowl. Although his Bowl interview while serving as interim HC was a little wacky, Kines is a defensive genius in my book.

 

[Braveheart]

I also think the Shula staff signed too many guys that are/were projects (e.g. guys that were coming off of major surgery, or had some skills but desperately needed a lot time in the S&C program or were being asked to play a position totally new to them). They also didn't do their homework on guys that needed A LOT of work academically and needed a miracle to qualify (Michael Ricks and Lebronski Hutchins come to mind).

 

[OCtide]

Another factor is that Shula recruited guys on defense to fit Kines' scheme. Saban wants much bigger guys on the d-line and linebackers. Our front 7 is well undersized for the defense Saban wants to run. That will be changing over the next couple of years.

 

[Jack Bourbon]

Our current staff evaluates ahead of the curve, it seems, too.

 

[tide06]

I'm just looking forward to the day when we field our first solid O-Line since Wesley Britt and Co. were wearing Crimson and all these backs that have been fighting for 2-3 ypc suddenly turn into Adrian Peterson and everyone will wonder "where did these guys come from?".

Same deal to an extent with JPW, if you can run the ball consistently the passing game will begin to take care of itself as the safeties creep up into the box and WR's see daylight down field.

Unfortunately it might take until 2009 or 2010 when our line looks like this for it to happen:
LT: Tyler Love (So.)
LG: Patrick Crump / David Ross (Jr.)
C: William Vlachos (Jr.)
RG: John Michael Boswell (So.)
RT: Barrett Jones (So.)

 

[Crimson Surfer]

All of the above is right on target and are facts. Another fact is the injuries. A lot of the top players have been/were injured. Brodie Croyle battled severe injuries his entire career and Tyrone Prothro lost his career when he broke his leg. You add the injuries to numerous key players, reduction of scholarship numbers, large number of non-qualifiers, crazy amount of coaching changes, and what appears to have been just some plain bad luck and it has been a rough decade for Tide Fans.

 

[teamplayer]

All of the above is right on target and are facts. Another fact is the injuries. A lot of the top players have been/were injured. Brodie Croyle battled severe injuries his entire career and Tyrone Prothro lost his career when he broke his leg. You add the injuries to numerous key players, reduction of scholarship numbers, large number of non-qualifiers, crazy amount of coaching changes, and what appears to have been just some plain bad luck and it has been a rough decade for Tide Fans.

Yes, good recruiting doesn't guarantee any wins, but bad recruiting and bad luck makes it really hard to compete. We have had a very tough ten year period, but we still have an SEC title and seven bowl appearances, I think. Of course, I think we've only won three bowl games: 07/08 Independence, 05/06 Cotton, and 01/02 Independence. I could be wrong because I've tried to block out a lot of things the last ten years.

 

[eladabbub]

Another thing is that if there was a player that could play offense or defense under Shula, the player always ended up on offense.

I believe that if Prothro hadn't had the injury, then Shula would still be the coach.

 

[kcin_4_BAMA]

I believe that if Prothro hadn't had the injury, then Shula would still be the coach.

I can go along with that line of thinking....man, if ever there was a catch 22, that is it. Prothro stays healthy, but we keep Shula..... or..... we get Saban, but Prothro never plays again....:frown:_frown:

 

[BEATtutorsee]

It's a fact that this year's class is shaping up to be one of the absolute best classes Alabama has had in many years.

 

[JeffAtlanta]

Right now we project at NUmber 2. Fact or Fiction?

Right now we are ranked #2 and projected to finish very strong. There are, however, a lot of perennial recruiting powers like Texas, Ohio State, Southern Cal, Florida, FSU and to a lesser extent LSU that still have a lot of room left in their classes and are expected to finish very strong. Miami and UGA are mostly full but they could still make some late moves as well.

We should project out somewhere in the #1 to #10 range. We've had top ten classes before but most of those were fluffed up by blue chips that never had a chance at qualifying so this class is probably the most exciting one in a long time.

 

[JeffAtlanta]

I can go along with that line of thinking....man, if ever there was a catch 22, that is it. Prothro stays healthy, but we keep Shula..... or..... we get Saban, but Prothro never plays again....:frown:_frown:

Yeah, an even bigger catch 22 was Shaun Alexander and Chris Samuels carrying Alabama on their back in Gainesville to beat UF and save Dubose's job.