Saban's secret weapon: The Tide fan base

[liquidvengeance]

Arrogant or obnoxious doesn't equal passionate, either!

paint the kettle black

just ask oklahoma fans

93,000 / 79,000 spring nuff' said

 

[LSU63]

Btw, I should have put a in my previous post, but there was too much truth to it, so I left it out .

Opinion. I've been to every SEC campus except Vandy, and I haven't seen any evidence of LSU having more drunks than others. I wouldn't know for sure how to tell, percentage wise. It just depends how your luck runs and who you cross at the game.

 

[LSU63]

But only Alabama is accurate in that assessment. How many ways does Bama have to prove it ? Only UT, as much as I can't stand the program, is in the same league. LSU, AU and Ark are in the next tier.

i can't argue with this one, given the long history of winning and the record of LSU against both of these schools.

But I wouldn't consider LSU second tier. Comparing us to Ark, who we have a pretty decided edge in head to head record, is not acurate, IMO.

We also have been in the top ten or top 5 in the country in attendance, reguarly sell out a 92,000 seat stadium, and have a pretty rabid fan base.

And 3 NC's. Which is the same no. as Tenn. and one more than Fla. BTW

Not second tier.

 

[BigEasyTider]

i can't argue with this one, given the long history of winning and the record of LSU against both of these schools.

But I wouldn't consider LSU second tier. Comparing us to Ark, who we have a pretty decided edge in head to head record, is not acurate, IMO.

We also have been in the top ten or top 5 in the country in attendance, reguarly sell out a 92,000 seat stadium, and have a pretty rabid fan base.

And 3 NC's. Which is the same no. as Tenn. and one more than Fla. BTW

Not second tier.

I think you make a lot of good points, 63, but it's hard to differentiate to a degree.

LSU certainly does not belong with Alabama in terms of tradition and overall accomplishments and, though to a lesser extent, not with Tennessee either. As you mentioned, you guys now have as many national championships as they do, but there is more to it than national championships. Tennessee has more conference championships, more bowl appearances, more bowl wins, a better bowl winning percentage, and more bowl appearances, plus more appearances in the polls. And, beyond that, they have dominated the series with you guys.

On the other hand, the Arkansas bit is pretty absurd. The Hogs have a nice tradition, but it's nothing like what you find at LSU. The Bayou Bengals have a healthy lead in the all-time series, have more national championships, more bowl appearances, and more poll appearances. That's a poor comparison, too.

The truth is, traditionally speaking, LSU is in a four-way glut with Florida, Georgia, and Auburn.

Georgia is probably, historically speaking, closer to LSU than anyone else. LSU has one more national championship, but Georgia has four more SEC championships. The Dawgs have more bowl appearances, more bowl wins, a better bowl winning percentage, and more Heisman winners, but it's all by fairly slight margins, nothing major. On the other hand, both LSU and Georgia have the exact same number of poll appearances, and LSU leads very slightly in the all-time series. It's all very close with both programs highly similar, they are pretty much mirror images.

Basically the same thing goes with Auburn. LSU has two more national championships, but in all fairness Auburn's 2004 team was every bit as good as any national champion LSU has ever produced, and the lack of a title in that year really has more to do with luck than anything else. Moving on, LSU has more conference titles, but on the other hand Auburn has more bowl wins, a much better bowl winning percentage, one more Heisman winner, and more poll appearances. LSU does lead the all-time series by a very narrow margin, but if you look at the series in the past seventy years it is tied (14-14), and if you look at the past 30 years, Auburn leads (11-9). You would have to give the slight edge to LSU because of the national championships and SEC titles, but all in all it's very close.

Florida is the tough evaluation. Traditionally LSU has done much better than the Gators, but Florida has, with no doubt whatsoever, been the team of the post-Bryant era in the SEC. In the past twenty-five years, the Gators have almost closed all of the gaps with the Bayou Bengals, and are now essentially even with LSU in terms of national championships, SEC championships, poll appearances, and bowl wins. Beyond that, Florida leads the all-time series now (five game margin), and have absolutely dominated the series in the past twenty-five years (17-7-1). LSU has the narrow edge, but Florida has gained a lot of grain in the past quarter of a century, and it won't take much more to completely close the gap.

It's all really tough to say. Indisputably, Alabama is at the very top. Also indisputably, Tennessee is second. But once you get past those two, it's a very close race, and it's hard to make any definite distinctions between any of them because things are just so close. If you are looking at historical success, there really isn't much more than stone throw's difference between LSU, Georgia, Auburn, and Florida.

 

[M2J]

good post BET

 

[LSU63]

I think you make a lot of good points, 63, but it's hard to differentiate to a degree.

LSU certainly does not belong with Alabama in terms of tradition and overall accomplishments and, though to a lesser extent, not with Tennessee either. As you mentioned, you guys now have as many national championships as they do, but there is more to it than national championships. Tennessee has more conference championships, more bowl appearances, more bowl wins, a better bowl winning percentage, and more bowl appearances, plus more appearances in the polls. And, beyond that, they have dominated the series with you guys.

On the other hand, the Arkansas bit is pretty absurd. The Hogs have a nice tradition, but it's nothing like what you find at LSU. The Bayou Bengals have a healthy lead in the all-time series, have more national championships, more bowl appearances, and more poll appearances. That's a poor comparison, too.

The truth is, traditionally speaking, LSU is in a four-way glut with Florida, Georgia, and Auburn.

Georgia is probably, historically speaking, closer to LSU than anyone else. LSU has one more national championship, but Georgia has four more SEC championships. The Dawgs have more bowl appearances, more bowl wins, a better bowl winning percentage, and more Heisman winners, but it's all by fairly slight margins, nothing major. On the other hand, both LSU and Georgia have the exact same number of poll appearances, and LSU leads very slightly in the all-time series. It's all very close with both programs highly similar, they are pretty much mirror images.

Basically the same thing goes with Auburn. LSU has two more national championships, but in all fairness Auburn's 2004 team was every bit as good as any national champion LSU has ever produced, and the lack of a title in that year really has more to do with luck than anything else. Moving on, LSU has more conference titles, but on the other hand Auburn has more bowl wins, a much better bowl winning percentage, one more Heisman winner, and more poll appearances. LSU does lead the all-time series by a very narrow margin, but if you look at the series in the past seventy years it is tied (14-14), and if you look at the past 30 years, Auburn leads (11-9). You would have to give the slight edge to LSU because of the national championships and SEC titles, but all in all it's very close.

Florida is the tough evaluation. Traditionally LSU has done much better than the Gators, but Florida has, with no doubt whatsoever, been the team of the post-Bryant era in the SEC. In the past twenty-five years, the Gators have almost closed all of the gaps with the Bayou Bengals, and are now essentially even with LSU in terms of national championships, SEC championships, poll appearances, and bowl wins. Beyond that, Florida leads the all-time series now (five game margin), and have absolutely dominated the series in the past twenty-five years (17-7-1). LSU has the narrow edge, but Florida has gained a lot of grain in the past quarter of a century, and it won't take much more to completely close the gap.

It's all really tough to say. Indisputably, Alabama is at the very top. Also indisputably, Tennessee is second. But once you get past those two, it's a very close race, and it's hard to make any definite distinctions between any of them because things are just so close. If you are looking at historical success, there really isn't much more than stone throw's difference between LSU, Georgia, Auburn, and Florida.

Good post, and pretty unbiased, nice job.

 

[LSU63]

The truth is, traditionally speaking, LSU is in a four-way glut with Florida, Georgia, and Auburn.

removing my purple and gold glasses, this is right on.

I'd give us the edge over Auburn, because we have more titles, but it's close.

Tenn. has the edge on us, but right now we're better, let's see if we can sustain. Will we win 11/12 games every year? No. All teams have ebbs and flows. But can we be more consistent than we have been and stay in the elite of the conference most of the time?

We'll see, but I'm thinking we're a program to be reckoned with for the forseeable future.

 

[rizolltizide]

Seriously, all the big programs in the SEC think they are the most passionate, devoted, supporting fan base.

That's as it should be. It's what make college football so great.

Yep, but we're the only ones that are right.

 

[crains]

LSU has 2 of their 3 national championships because Saban was there and the other one because he had been there! Miles inherited a program that was on top and loaded with talent because of Saban! He will eventually return to a program much like the ones he had at OK. St. Good but not great.

 

[LSU63]

LSU has 2 of their 3 national championships because Saban was there and the other one because he had been there! Miles inherited a program that was on top and loaded with talent because of Saban! He will eventually return to a program much like the ones he had at OK. St. Good but not great.

How did Saban contribute to the 58 championship? People like you will say that if we win another on in 5 years, it's because of Coach Saban.

Just curious, were you that high on him when he was at LSU? Or are you a recent convert?

 

[Bamabuzzard]

removing my purple and gold glasses, this is right on.

I'd give us the edge over Auburn, because we have more titles, but it's close.

Tenn. has the edge on us, but right now we're better, let's see if we can sustain. Will we win 11/12 games every year? No. All teams have ebbs and flows. But can we be more consistent than we have been and stay in the elite of the conference most of the time?

We'll see, but I'm thinking we're a program to be reckoned with for the forseeable future.

63, there's no need to compare and try to determine who has more "tradition" or "more passion" etc. You (as an LSU fan) have plenty to be proud of. You're right about the ebbs and flows of college football. The trick is to shorten the time between cyclical flows up and down and keep the flow up going longer than the flow down.:biggrin:

But I will tell you this. It's gonna be very hard to win 10-11 games every year in the SEC. Especially now. Bobby Petrino (as much as a punk as he is) will build Arkanslaw to a more potent team than Nutt ever thought about and I believe Nutt will make Ole Miss into a seven to eight win team having his yearly upset games.

I'm not sure how much Bama will improve. I think after the 2008 season you'll see a much different Bama team on the field than y'all have the past five years.

As one LSU friend of mine said the other day. "These are the golden years of LSU football." And he's exactly right. No other time in y'alls history can y'all point to this kind of sustained success. But the road is difinitely getting tougher.

 

[BamaInBham]

i can't argue with this one, given the long history of winning and the record of LSU against both of these schools.

But I wouldn't consider LSU second tier. Comparing us to Ark, who we have a pretty decided edge in head to head record, is not acurate, IMO.

We also have been in the top ten or top 5 in the country in attendance, reguarly sell out a 92,000 seat stadium, and have a pretty rabid fan base.

And 3 NC's. Which is the same no. as Tenn. and one more than Fla. BTW

Not second tier.

I wasn't talking about performance, I was talking about fanbase passion. I certainly don't consider those I mentioned in your group as second tier, just that they are not at Bama's level regarding fan passion, IMO.

As far as performance LSU is far ahead of AU and Ark.

Obviously, there is a great deal of subjectivity when assessing fan passion.

 

[LSU63]

I wasn't talking about performance, I was talking about fanbase passion. I certainly don't consider those I mentioned in your group as second tier, just that they are not at Bama's level regarding fan passion, IMO.

As far as performance LSU is far ahead of AU and Ark.

Obviously, there is a great deal of subjectivity when assessing fan passion.

selling out a 92,000 seat stadium, and consistently being considered one of the toughest places to play (notice I didn't say the toughest) is 1st rate.

 

[Crimson Hawk]

'63 just curious, but what was the LSU fanbase like before CNS, as far as passion? Would you say it was at the level it is now, or lower/higher? Not trying to pick a fight, just genuinely curious.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

'63 just curious, but what was the LSU fanbase like before CNS, as far as passion? Would you say it was at the level it is now, or lower/higher? Not trying to pick a fight, just genuinely curious.

I think '63 might be using the last six years as his basis for LSU's overall body of work with regards to fan support and passion. He can answer for himself but if he's using the entire body of work of LSU fans they had some mighty lean years from fan support when they went a decade of losing over half their games and was some of the ugliest times of their program.

I think Bama fans get their "delusional" label from being so supportive of their team even when the team was horrible. We could have a 3-8 team yet "still be better than you." type mentality. :biggrin: Not much has changed has it. :eek2:

 

[LSU63]

'63 just curious, but what was the LSU fanbase like before CNS, as far as passion? Would you say it was at the level it is now, or lower/higher? Not trying to pick a fight, just genuinely curious.

In Hallman's last year, our 6th straight losing season, the crowds for the last 2 home games attendance dropped to about 45,000 showing up.

That's what finally drove bottom line Joe Dean to smoke Curley and bring in Dinardo.

Tiger fans were passionate before and after CNS

No offense, I apreciate what CNS did for us, and I do recognize that he put in motion a lot of the reasons we're successfull, but Tiger football is bigger than any coach, former or current. Nick Saban laid the foundation for LSU's current success, but he didn't transform us from a MSU or Vandy.

 

[LSU63]

I think '63 might be using the last six years as his basis for LSU's overall body of work with regards to fan support and passion. He can answer for himself but if he's using the entire body of work of LSU fans they had some mighty lean years from fan support when they went a decade of losing over half their games and was some of the ugliest times of their program.

I think Bama fans get their "delusional" label from being so supportive of their team even when the team was horrible. We could have a 3-8 team yet "still be better than you." type mentality. :biggrin: Not much has changed has it. :eek2:

I was a walk-on in 81, we went 3-7-1, and were playing in a full stadium.

I am definitely not using the last 6 years as a base. The "earthquake game" when LSU beat Auburn was in 88. What most folks still think was the loudest game in Tiger Stadium, was against USC in 79.

Guys, and I don't mean this as a flame, I think some people think Coach Saban transformed us from Vandy. Even with the 6 year losing streak from 89-94, we are 12-12-1 against Bama in the last 25 years. We were inconsistent, but we have had some pretty significant seasons pre-CNS is all I'm saying

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I was a walk-on in 81, we went 3-7-1, and were playing in a full stadium.

I am definitely not using the last 6 years as a base. The "earthquake game" when LSU beat Auburn was in 88. What most folks still think was the loudest game in Tiger Stadium, was against USC in 79.

Guys, and I don't mean this as a flame, I think some people think Coach Saban transformed us from Vandy. Even with the 6 year losing streak from 89-94, we are 12-12-1 against Bama in the last 25 years. We were inconsistent, but we have had some pretty significant seasons pre-CNS is all I'm saying

Good points. I've only really followed LSU football from 1995 to present when I moved to LA. The only true research I've done was to see the overall records in the SEC since the inception of the SEC and LSU is (and you can check my numbers) fourth best among overall records in the SEC.

I don't disagree that LSU has had some significant games and the fans love their tigers. And realistically no one can measure who's fans are more passionate than others. I think all SEC fans are nuts compared to the rest of the country's fans.

I think Saban did transform the LSU program or at least laid the foundation. I've heard WAY WAY to many LSU fans say "These are the golden years of tiger football". This is coming from fans that suffered through the bad years and even some that were fans back in 1958 championship year. Yes, pre Saban y'all were definitely apart of some good teams but at the same time your program wasn't considered an elite school either. Not saying it wasn't good but there's a difference in being good and being great. Over the last six years LSU has been a great program. You've won three SEC Titles and two BCS NC and will probably contend for it again in 08 and should REALLY be a player for it again in 09.

 

[LSU63]

This is absolutely the Golden Years of Tiger Football, and I'm definitely living in the moment!

 

[Bamabuzzard]

This is absolutely the Golden Years of Tiger Football, and I'm definitely living in the moment!

Enjoy it because you're not promised it's going to continue. I started truly following Bama football at the tail end of their last real success and that was the 92 championship team. Shortly after that it all went to Hades in a hand basket and it seemed like it happened over night.