Stoops: A good coach, or just a great recruiter?

JohnD

All-SEC
Dec 22, 2003
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Stoops: A great coach, or just a great recruiter?

I've heard all the talk about USC being world beaters, and the new dynasty. And they may be. But in my opinion, given 3 weeks to prepare, Carroll simply out-prepared an unprepared Stoops team and had his team ready to play. Talent on both sides was a wash. USC has had maybe a slight edge over OU in recruiting, but it's not much. Both get 3 or more 5 star players per year.

People seem to have forgotten that USC did not beat everybody like a drum this season. They beat Va Tech by 11 (24-13), Stanford by only 3 (31-28), Cal by 6 (23-17), Oregon State by 8 (28-20), and UCLA by 5 (29-24). None of those teams have the caliber of athletes that Oklahoma has, nor USC for that matter, but all of them gave USC a much better game than Oklahoma did. Cal and Stanford had them beat.

On the other side of the fence, Oklahoma let T A&M go up on them 28-0. Unprepared. They woke up and took over the game because A&M could not match their speed. Last year, they lost big to LSU with equal talent on both sides. Everybody talks about Stoops as if he’s a football god, and I think it’s just that he can recruit the players to beat the vast majority of teams they play.

I guess the genesis of my argument stems from the bashing of Mike Shula for not being a good X's and O's coach. And I don't get that. The South Carolina and Arkansas games are the ones I feel we let slip away, but we were reeling from having lost Croyle, then having lost Guillon. So I can understand it. Neither of those guys had any experience due to Croyle needing all the snaps to learn the offense. And even thought the injuries continued, to the point that every team who beat us after that had superior talent and depth, we were still in every one of those losses down to the end of the game. UT, LSU, AU, and Minn, had us far outmatched at more than 1 position. Given that fact, and given what we saw last night, I think people are being way too critical of Mike Shula at this point.

Depth AND experience is what we need. Both take time. We’re only now in a situation to build depth, since this will be the first year with a full complement of scholarships. But that depth, in many cases, will be freshmen and redshirt freshmen this fall. Shula should have 2 more seasons in order to effectively evaluate him.
 
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I think Stoops is suffering over the loss of Mike Stoops.

You can't say he isn't a good coach though. He turned OU around from a doormat in the late 90's to a team that has played for the NC 3 of the last 5 years.
 
You make that same argument with Mack Brown. He consistently wins at UT but can't beat Oklahoma.

I think Stoops is a helluva coach myself. OU was just off last night. Peterson is going to be something special in the years to come.
 
yeah, Stoops is both a good coach and a good recruiter. Their gameplan got trashed by having those turnovers and USC scoring after each. It is hard to stay with a rush/pass split attack when you are down 3 touchdowns or more, then you pull a few 3 and outs and your D gets worn down. OU is a good football team with a good coaching staff, they just got caught in a momentum swing that rolled all over them.

Anyway, the point is this: if he weren't a good coach, his teams wouldn't be in these games. Period.
 
BamaCod said:
yeah, Stoops is both a good coach and a good recruiter. Their gameplan got trashed by having those turnovers and USC scoring after each. It is hard to stay with a rush/pass split attack when you are down 3 touchdowns or more, then you pull a few 3 and outs and your D gets worn down. OU is a good football team with a good coaching staff, they just got caught in a momentum swing that rolled all over them.

Anyway, the point is this: if he weren't a good coach, his teams wouldn't be in these games. Period.

The question was supposed to have been is he a "great" coach. I do think he is a "good" coach. But his recruiting makes him look better against average teams. This is 2 NC games in a row that his team fell on their face. Sure, he's getting his team to those games, but it's Texas is his only competition, talent wise, right now. Nebraska is way down, A&M is down, and the rest of the conference is never more than average.

Bobby Bowden has said if you have speed and talent at the skilled positions above and beyond your opponent, a lot of time you can just roll over a team and run up the points. Then when you go against a team with equal speed, you might get killed. You just never know until you play an equal talent team.
 
I say 'good' at this point in his career, BUT

I think a coach has to pull some time (years) before you could really decide about his 'greatness.' Anyway, with that said, OU made some stupid mistakes last night. As has been said many times already, you're looking at a different game without the turnovers and better execution. I've always been of the school of thought that it doesn't matter how "vanilla" an offense someone has; If it's working, if it's being executed properly, then use it! Yeah, I love offensive imagination, but if the players don't EXECUTE, then it doesn't matter what the play is, it most likely AIN'T gonna work! That's exactly why I don't think you can call it a coaching problem just because the offense isn't scoring. The players have to make it work. All the coach can do is teach and make adjustments and leave it to the players to do the actual work. JMHO! Roll Tide!
 
Nice post JohnD. Only time will tell for Stoops, but right now I would say good fits a lot better than great. OU's already suspect D backfield got exposed big time last night. Pete Carroll knew exactly WHERE to attack & took full advantage of it. The duo of Pete Carroll/Norm Chow has the promise of greatness.....IF they don't self destruct by splitting up.
The fact that CMS & staff were able to "hide" our major weaknesses on D for most of the year sez a lot about our potential for the future. Being a second generation coach with access to one of the NFL's greatest coaches can't hurt.
To the future!
 
I say stoops is both. He still turned that place around in my opinion and he did well at flawita. You can coach all you want the kids still play the game.
 
Yes, he is a good coach a great recruiter and was outcoached last night big time. Turnovers hurt but the offensive execution and play calling was otherwise fantastic.
 
Suspect?

OU's secondary wasn't suspect all season. Quite frankly, it was **** from opening day. Bo Pellini was not a good hire for OU. The Sooners were an in your face, foaming at the mouth defense since Stoops arrived in Norman. Pellini brought a "keep everything underneath, bend but don't break defense, and it showed big time. Derrick Strait would not have looked good under Pellini. Hurts to have to amit it, but the truth is the truth.
 
Stoops is a good coach, but I'm beginning to see similarities between Oklahoma and Florida State.

FSU has been consistently good for many years, but only has one NC to show for it. Alarmingly for OU fans, the Sooners are starting to blow big bowl games much like Bowden and FSU started doing.
 
He is a good coach, but he can be a jerk as well. I have noticed that he never gives the opposing coach any props when OU gets beat. It is always "we didn't do this and didn't do that." He never says how good the other teams plays. He said this kind of stuff last night after getting his head handed to him by USC.
 
Bob Stoops is a fantastic coach...
...he has been at OU for 6 years
...they have won 3 Big 12 Championships
...1 National Championship
...and played in 6 staright bowl games
...his record is 66 wins and 12 loses (5 of those his first year)
...if that ain't great, then there's no such thing as greatness...
...the man can coach, period!
 
i don't know how good of a coach he is, but after the sugar bowl last year i thought he was a prideful weenie and after his post-orange bowl interviews i think even less of him. i always like the coaches (like stalling and the bear) who when they lose say they didn't do a good enough job coaching, and when they win say it's because the players did so well. at the half stoops said they were calling the right coverages but the players weren't making the plays. then, after the game he said more of the same. you would get the impression he did everything right but the players screwed it up for him. that may be the case, but it burns me to hear a 2 million dollar a year coach talk like that. so pridefull...
 
HammerJammer said:
i don't know how good of a coach he is, but after the sugar bowl last year i thought he was a prideful weenie and after his post-orange bowl interviews i think even less of him. i always like the coaches (like stalling and the bear) who when they lose say they didn't do a good enough job coaching, and when they win say it's because the players did so well. at the half stoops said they were calling the right coverages but the players weren't making the plays. then, after the game he said more of the same. you would get the impression he did everything right but the players screwed it up for him. that may be the case, but it burns me to hear a 2 million dollar a year coach talk like that. so pridefull...

Sounds like Wingnut!
 
Coach Bryant went from 1967 through 1974 without a Bowl win. Tie in 1970. That's eight years. Bob Stoops still has a way to go before he ties that mark. ;)
 
Bayou

some of the people here would have been whining about those teams of the Bear's, say, the Scott Hunter teams. They went to bowl games but also lost some. I wonder if they did or would have complained about the Bear and said, " he's an ok coach but a good recruiter. He's only been winning 8 games a year.
 

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