The Government Says Money Isn't Property—So It Can Take Yours

[CrimsonJazz]

The government says money isn't property—so it can take yours

In a jaw-dropping argument, the Department of Justice claims seizing $50,000 from a small business doesn’t violate property rights because money isn’t property.

reason.com

As a lawyer who sues the government, you get used to the different kinds of arguments that government lawyers use to justify abuses of individual rights—sweeping claims of government power, bad-faith procedural obstacles, and more.

This was a new one: The U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) argued that confiscating $50,000 from a small business did not infringe the business' right to private property because money is not property.

Right now, my mind is just reeling from the implications of this. I debated whether or not this was worthy of its own thread, but we have some great minds on this board (even if we don't all agree on things.) I would to hear some takes about this.

 

[Bodhisattva]

The money you earn is just the money the government allows you to keep.

 

[75thru79]

I'm not into conspiracy theories (and I don't think this is one) but this has all the hallmarks of the "Deep State". The Executive Branch has seized so much power over the last ten to twelve years that this kind of crap is rampant. Many of these agencies act as judge, jury and executioner over the entities in their domain. It is out of control.

 

[Tidewater]

The Brief was filed "12/16/24"
Hopefully, some sanity prevails, although I do not have time to read this in detail. On its face, it smells bad, though.

 

[jthomas666]

If money is free speech, then wouldn't confiscating money be suppressing free speech?

 

[mrusso]

If money is free speech, then wouldn't confiscating money be suppressing free speech?

No. Because it's money and the gov't said so.

 

[JDCrimson]

From accounting perspective, if money is not property, then you have instantly made every person and every business every bank insolvent and turned your country into a extreme communist state. Game over brought to you by a corrupt DOJ, SCOTUS, and POTUS. It's really that easy folks...

But, hey, here is the upside. The government debt is paid off and the billionaires will still be protected...

 

[crimsonaudio]

From accounting perspective, if money is not property, then you have instantly made every person and every business every bank insolvent and turned your country into a extreme communist state. Game over brought to you by a corrupt DOJ, SCOTUS, and POTUS. It's really that easy folks...

Just so we're clear, this argument was made by the Biden administration:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.255899/gov.uscourts.dcd.255899.18.0.pdf

 

[JDCrimson]

Doesnt matter, the outcome is the same if the Powers embrace it.

Our political parties are playing a game and we are just in the way.

Just so we're clear, this argument was made by the Biden administration:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.255899/gov.uscourts.dcd.255899.18.0.pdf

 

[crimsonaudio]

Doesnt matter, the outcome is the same if the Powers embrace it.

Our political parties are playing a game and we are just in the way.

Agree 100%.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Doesnt matter, the outcome is the same if the Powers embrace it.

Our political parties are playing a game and we are just in the way.

Been saying this for 20 years.

 

[Elefantman]

So robbing a bank and running off with tons of cash isn't a crime now?

 

[Tidewater]

I shared this with an attorney friend today.
He responded he always attempted to avoid the clever legal argument. This argument seems to be: "throw some garbage against the wall to see what will stick."

For my own part, it seems that for some people the Constitution and the law is something to be circumvented, twisted, tortured into serving whatever ends are at hand.

 

[4Q Basket Case]

There's no way any court will support this. The fact that the DOJ tried to make it, though, is disturbing.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

There's no way any court will support this. The fact that the DOJ tried to make it, though, is disturbing.

True, but for a small business, $50k can be the difference between staying in business and shutting your doors forever. Profit margins can be that slim for some. By the time this gets to the courts, the damage is likely already done.