The Trayvon Martin Case

[seebell]

How many posts do you have in this thread? Well that is exactly how many chances you have had to clear up your claim but you have spent your time jumping from one hoop to another in an attempt to.....well I don't know what you are attempting to prove. Either way you didn't make any better a case than the prosecution did so you've that going for you.

The prosecutors were totally outclassed by the defense. GZ was way overcharged to begin with. Even manslaughter had a potential 30 year sentence. I couldn't have voted guilty based on what I saw on TV. Did both GZ and TM do the wrong thing? Yes siree Bob they did. Now I will go back to Moan's UFO videos. A repressed memory of my abduction by aliens is beginning to surface.

Bamainboston's link expresses my feelings pretty well. http://mobile.slate.com/articles/new...reactions.html

 

[crimsonaudio]

Since it sounds like I will not be allowed to clear up my claim I will just bow out and leave the 'discussion' to the rest of you. I didn't hear the entire trial. I was just asking questions.

Of course you're allowed to clear up your claim - DO IT. All you've done is claim 'we don't know what happened' and offered ZERO otherwise.

If you want to take your ball and go home, be my guest - but don't try to act like some kind of martyr.

 

[seebell]

Along seebell's lines that this case was overcharged, do you think there was any legitimate charge that could be leveled against GZ? I am not as good on criminal law as I am in other areas. I'd be interested what you or other criminal guys think might could have been charged and pressed successfully. I think we all agree that it would have been better if they whole thing had been avoided, but the real question is, was there any criminal liability here.

Good question. What would have had a (very) little jail time and some probation?

Here is Fla law on involuntary manslaughter. Doesn't seem to fit either.
http://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida-law/florida-involuntary-manslaughter-laws.html

 

[mikes12]

Okay, there's another aspect here we haven't discussed:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/19/george-zimmerman-new-gun_n_3625699.html

It is his property. His property should be returned to him. This 'ongoing investigation into whether Zimmerman violated Martin's civil rights' is just a political witch hunt.

What about Zimmerman's 2nd amendment rights, or his right not to have his property taken without due process? They've had over a year to investigate. Is there a statute of limitations on civil rights stuff?

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Along seebell's lines that this case was overcharged, do you think there was any legitimate charge that could be leveled against GZ? I am not as good on criminal law as I am in other areas. I'd be interested what you or other criminal guys think might could have been charged and pressed successfully. I think we all agree that it would have been better if they whole thing had been avoided, but the real question is, was there any criminal liability here.

That's an interesting question. From a tactical standpoint, it was way overcharged. That creates a hurdle which the prosecution built for themselves, apparently as a purely political move. That didn't help them at all, as the evidence developed and the jury became aware that there was no way on earth that this was murder in any degree, even the 3rd, which may have leaked to members of the jury and which was blatantly a lame last-minute move to try and rescue a bad case. The judge instructed the jury properly that all they could consider was the attack and the defense. On that point the evidence was clear (and never contradicted successfully). And all this crap about "Zimmerman shouldn't have gotten out of his car" is just that, crap. Maybe he should have stopped off for a beer and never encountered Martin. Maybe Martin shouldn't have lollygagged around in the rain for almost an hour, covering the half mile, making himself an object of suspicion. As I've stated several times above, you do that in my neighborhood, you're quite likely to be asked the same question Martin was asked. In a case like this, there are endless "what ifs." All that matters for legal purposes is the originator of the attack and what the defense was and was it justified. The jury decided it was. The judge properly restricted them from the question of "could it have been avoided," which was the proper ruling to make. It just doesn't matter. There are a thousand factors which could have prevented this. To cherry-pick one out as the proximate cause just doesn't wash in a court of law. I'd like to add that my remarks are not coming as a "liberal" or as a "conservative." In fact, my political/economic views are so far outside the normal little "boxes," I choose not to try to explain them here. In this case, I'm speaking strictly as an attorney with my own legal slant...

 

[bamacon]

Along seebell's lines that this case was overcharged, do you think there was any legitimate charge that could be leveled against GZ? I am not as good on criminal law as I am in other areas. I'd be interested what you or other criminal guys think might could have been charged and pressed successfully. I think we all agree that it would have been better if they whole thing had been avoided, but the real question is, was there any criminal liability here.

The fact that they had to fire the chief of police, go judge and DA shopping, fail to disclose exculpatory evidence in the affidavit, deliberately stall AND withhold evidence during discovery and throughout the lead up to the trial, and then not provide one shred of evidence during the trial…yeah, I think they overcharged just a little bit.

 

[NationalTitles18]

He was stalked that's the facts. TM was a child that's a fact. I just wanted to
Know how long it was.

http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/stalking/

Stalking

Like domestic violence, stalking is a crime of power and control. Stalking is conservatively defined as "a course of conduct directed at a specific person that involves repeated (two or more occasions) visual or physical proximity, nonconsensual communication, or verbal, written, or implied threats, or a combination thereof, that would cause a reasonable person fear." [1] Stalking behaviors also may include persistent patterns of leaving or sending the victim unwanted items or presents that may range from seemingly romantic to bizarre, following or laying in wait for the victim, damaging or threatening to damage the victim's property, defaming the victim's character, or harassing the victim via the Internet by posting personal information or spreading rumors about the victim.

Other definitions can be found, but this is the image and emotional connection people invoking it in this case want you to make. It's just not true.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

LOL at stalking! this is a good example as to why lay persons shouldn't try too hard at playing lawyer. As I've said several times before, I've asked that same question of persons whom I didn't know and I've been asked. "Stalking" is beyond ridiculous. And this "child" drugged up or not, gave a pretty good account on himself for a mere baby...

 

[NationalTitles18]

I get what you are saying, still though it is more that is unresolved. We don't know what happened leading up to it because the person who was suppose to give his account is dead, so we only get half of the story. I believe with what the prosecution put out that GZ was not guilty, not innocent.

Not once did he claim to have identified himself. Shouldn't he as neighborhood watch have a moral obligation to at least identify himself instead of what are you doing around here? Or what about I'm armed? He had his chance to do all this but neglected to do so. Now he may have gotten jumped and TM may have deserved it, but this evidence really don't show anything to me, although it is evidence, that he got beat down that's all. Why? We really don't know. I'm done. On to Crimson Tide Football.

You have to be kidding. "Hi, I'm GZ. I'm in the friendly neighborhood watch and I'm armed with....hey! Get away from my gun! Don't *POW*......"

 

[JPT4Bama]

Stalking" is beyond ridiculous. And this "child" drugged up or not, gave a pretty good account on himself for a mere baby...

No kidding. Still I love the "shouldn't have gotten out of the car" line almost as much.

 

[RTR91]

I see the TideFans prosecutors know what happened. Too bad you guys weren't working for the state of Florida.

Bamaro, you liked this post, and you're one of the people I was referencing. If the prosecution couldn't find better evidence, why continue to ask the questions you ask? The prosecution had no hard, clear-cut evidence, which allowed the defense to leave reasonable doubt in the jurors' minds.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Afterburner w/ Bill Whittle of PJ Media has, as usual, an interesting take on things

I wish Bamaro would watch this.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

The more stuff like this that comes out you realize what a blatant attempt of injustice not only by the media but from the president of our country and his staff to try and use the race card (without knowing any of the facts) to further divide this country. Just for the record. I didn't vote for him.

I wish Bamaro would watch this.

 

[Bodhisattva]

Afterburner w/ Bill Whittle of PJ Media has, as usual, an interesting take on things

Thanks for the heads up. I like their work. I look forward to watching this when I get home.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I don't think you heard him. Where's the evidence?

"There are no American infidels in Baghdad. Never!"- Baghdad Bob

 

[BamaPokerplayer]

No kidding. Still I love the "shouldn't have gotten out of the car" line almost as much.

Yeppers, and if the girl did not go to the club she wouldn't have been raped.

 

[seebell]

The more stuff like this that comes out you realize what a blatant attempt of injustice not only by the media but from the president of our country and his staff to try and use the race card (without knowing any of the facts) to further divide this country. Just for the record. I didn't vote for him.

Wow , that is quite a surprise!!:biggrin:

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Wow , that is quite a surprise!![/B]:biggrin:

I voted for you seebell. I figured we could workout some sort of under the table political deal with the Cajun Pickles. :biggrin:

 

[seebell]

I voted for you seebell. I figured we could workout some sort of under the table political deal with the Cajun Pickles. :biggrin:

Heck yeah Bamabuzzard.

Mandatory Nationwide School Lunch Menu. Fully complies with Michelle Obama's Campaign Against Childhood Obesity

Monday School Lunch Menu:

1. Stewed Double D Pickles
2. Texas Toast slathered with Double D BBQ Sauce

Tuesday School Lunch Menu:

1. Fried Green Double D Pickles
2. Texas Toast slathered with Double D BBQ Sauce

Wednesday School Lunch Menu:

1. Grilled Double D Pickles
2. Texas Toast slathered with Double D BBQ Sauce

Repeat

We could eventually make this the armed forces menu as well. Also include massive amounts of Double D Pickles in our foreign aid packages.:biggrin:

 

[cbi1972]

Tell me more about these Double D pickles