Unwritten punt return "rules"...times are a changin

[AlistarWills]

I've noticed over the last few years that the unwritten punt return rule of "heels on the 10" has gone by the wayside. Now you see guys catching balls well inside the 10. Fair catches and attempted returns alike. Is it being coached differently now? Do you think this is a result of punters being better able to pin inside the 10 or coverage units being better?
Am I crazy and imagining there being an uptick of caught balls inside the 10?

 

[Tidewater]

Maybe coaching has changed. I think it is self-confidence by the punt returners. "I can return this..."
Statistically, it still think it is better for the team if you put your heels on the 10 and never back up. If it is over your head, most likely, it is going into the end zone, so you'll get the ball on the 20. If a punt returner catches a punt on the 5, he had better be absolutely positive he can get a 15 yard return and that nobody will block in the back.* Otherwise, he is screwing up catching a punt inside the 10.

* This is one penalty that drives me to distraction. If you cannot see the other guy's front numbers don't try to block him. Not only will you wipe out whatever return the punt returner might get, but you will give up 10 yards from the spot of the foul. Dumb, stupid, indisciplined penalty, and so common.

 

[Isaiah 63:1]

Here’s a link to a fact-based analysis of NFL data from 2015. I’m willing to bet the sample size was large enough to be susceptible to extrapolation.

Short answer: only 10% of punts under 50 yards that land between the 5 and 9 yard lines result in touchbacks. The risk-reward break even yard line for fielding versus allowing to bounce is the 6 to 7 yard line.

 

[Padreruf]

Here’s a link to a fact-based analysis of NFL data from 2015. I’m willing to bet the sample size was large enough to be susceptible to extrapolation.

Short answer: only 10% of punts under 50 yards that land between the 5 and 9 yard lines result in touchbacks. The risk-reward break even yard line for fielding versus allowing to bounce is the 6 to 7 yard line.

Why spoil a good historical belief with data??

 

[NationalTitles18]

Maybe coaching has changed. I think it is self-confidence by the punt returners. "I can return this..."
Statistically, it still think it is better for the team if you put your heels on the 10 and never back up. If it is over your head, most likely, it is going into the end zone, so you'll get the ball on the 20. If a punt returner catches a punt on the 5, he had better be absolutely positive he can get a 15 yard return and that nobody will block in the back.* Otherwise, he is screwing up catching a punt inside the 10.

* This is one penalty that drives me to distraction. If you cannot see the other guy's front numbers don't try to block him. Not only will you wipe out whatever return the punt returner might get, but you will give uo 10 yards from the spot of the foul. Dumb, stupid, indisciplined penalty, and so common.

But if you block in the back 30 yards downfield you'll gain 20 yards.

 

[Isaiah 63:1]

Why spoil a good historical belief with data??

Imagine what’s it’s like being my child...

 

[Rolltide51]

Why spoil a good historical belief with data??

i am with you Padre... we need a forum for the logical but the info. he gave was helpful.

 

[4Q Basket Case]

Here’s a link to a fact-based analysis of NFL data from 2015. I’m willing to bet the sample size was large enough to be susceptible to extrapolation.

Short answer: only 10% of punts under 50 yards that land between the 5 and 9 yard lines result in touchbacks. The risk-reward break even yard line for fielding versus allowing to bounce is the 6 to 7 yard line.

Why spoil a good historical belief with data??

Imagine what’s it’s like being my child...

So you’re really saying that the data show that, instead of putting your heels on the 10 and not fielding any punts you have to back up to catch, you should plant yourself at the 6 and not back up to field.

It’s not the historical concept that’s flawed, but rather the historical dividing line between when to execute the concept and when not to.

Kind of like pointing out when Mrs. Basket Case is wrong....I know I should pick my battles judiciously. But dang, that dividing line is blurry sometimes.

 

[Isaiah 63:1]

So you’re really saying that the data show that, instead of putting your heels on the 10 and not fielding any punts you have to back up to catch, you should plant yourself at the 6 and not back up to field.

It’s not the historical concept that’s flawed, but rather the historical dividing line between when to execute the concept and when not to.

Kind of like pointing out when Mrs. Basket Case is wrong....I know I should pick my battles judiciously. But dang, that dividing line is blurry sometimes.

I’m willing to bet the historical concept was based on a flawed assumption, and that at some point someone said, “I wonder what the data show?” And then teams adjusted.

As to your final point, I forget who said this, but I can vouch for its accuracy: there are two theories on how to win an argument with your wife...neither one works.

 

[BayouBama75]

I kinda wish 19 would fair catch the KOs from the goal line instead of running them out

 

[B1GTide]

I kinda wish 19 would fair catch the KOs from the goal line instead of running them out

He should not be back there. Period

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Since we're talking about punting. I wish there was a rule put in place for the punters and defenses defending the punt, that if the punter goes outside the tackle box and hasn't punted the ball. The punter safety rules no longer apply. They are considered a runner at that time, regardless if they end up punting it.

I think it is a competitive disadvantage to allow a punter to run 10 yards horizontally behind the line of scrimmage, outside the tackle box and still have rules in place to protect them.

 

[CB4]

Since we're talking about punting. I wish there was a rule put in place for the punters and defenses defending the punt, that if the punter goes outside the tackle box and hasn't punted the ball. The punter safety rules no longer apply. They are considered a runner at that time, regardless if they end up punting it.

I think it is a competitive disadvantage to allow a punter to run 10 yards horizontally behind the line of scrimmage, outside the tackle box and still have rules in place to protect them.

Can’t agree more. Been saying it for the past several years.

 

[Con]

Since we're talking about punting. I wish there was a rule put in place for the punters and defenses defending the punt, that if the punter goes outside the tackle box and hasn't punted the ball. The punter safety rules no longer apply. They are considered a runner at that time, regardless if they end up punting it.

I think it is a competitive disadvantage to allow a punter to run 10 yards horizontally behind the line of scrimmage, outside the tackle box and still have rules in place to protect them.

I keep thinking some guy should just come up a "wax the dude". If that happened at least once they may stop. Just like Notre Dame's kickoff return guy did last week. He ran the first one back, was crushed, then never tried to return another one.

 

[Tidewater]

So you’re really saying that the data show that, instead of putting your heels on the 10 and not fielding any punts you have to back up to catch, you should plant yourself at the 6 and not back up to field.

Three points.
1. NFL data may be different from college data. Yes, the bar is basically the same, but the punters are not. Just look at NFL FG kickers and college FG kickers. NFL punters may have more success at getting the ball to land right on the nose so the ball just bounced straight up.
2. On the ten yard line, there is an aid as to where you are standing. Not so on the 6. A punt returner could think he is on the six and actually be closer to the end zone.
3. The data does not address subsequent blocks in the back by the returning team, which are probably more common in college than the pros.

Bottom line, I'd still say that college punt returners would be better served planting their heals at the 10 and no backing up.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Maybe coaching has changed. I think it is self-confidence by the punt returners. "I can return this..."
Statistically, it still think it is better for the team if you put your heels on the 10 and never back up. If it is over your head, most likely, it is going into the end zone, so you'll get the ball on the 20. If a punt returner catches a punt on the 5, he had better be absolutely positive he can get a 15 yard return and that nobody will block in the back.* Otherwise, he is screwing up catching a punt inside the 10.

* This is one penalty that drives me to distraction. If you cannot see the other guy's front numbers don't try to block him. Not only will you wipe out whatever return the punt returner might get, but you will give up 10 yards from the spot of the foul. Dumb, stupid, indisciplined penalty, and so common.

It seems to me that a lot of those blocks occur when the opposing player turns after the blocker has already begun the block and his helmet ends up on the wrong side...

 

[Tidewater]

It seems to me that a lot of those blocks occur when the opposing player turns after the blocker has already begun the block and his helmet ends up on the wrong side...

Probably. It is just a frustrating penalty for me. A punt returner returns a punt 70 yards for a touchdown only to have it called back because someone where the returner caught the punt blocked in the back. Coach Shula's teams were infamous for this.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Probably. It is just a frustrating penalty for me. A punt returner returns a punt 70 yards for a touchdown only to have it called back because someone where the returner caught the punt blocked in the back. Coach Shula's teams were infamous for this.

True. They coach and coach them on how to avoid it, but they just get too carried away...

 

[4Q Basket Case]

Since we're talking about punting. I wish there was a rule put in place for the punters and defenses defending the punt, that if the punter goes outside the tackle box and hasn't punted the ball. The punter safety rules no longer apply. They are considered a runner at that time, regardless if they end up punting it.

I think it is a competitive disadvantage to allow a punter to run 10 yards horizontally behind the line of scrimmage, outside the tackle box and still have rules in place to protect them.

I could have sworn that rule was already in place, though I could be thinking about the NFL.

Any rules experts out there know for sure?

 

[OBMS]

I could have sworn that rule was already in place, though I could be thinking about the NFL.

Any rules experts out there know for sure?

Two different sections apply
9-1-16-I - "There is no kicker until the ball is kicked."
9-1-16-VII - "The punter loses his roughing or running-into protection by carrying the ball outside the tackle box."

Therefore the creation of such spread punt formations where the tackles are 10 to 12 yards away from the center.