Question: Why is it not a false start when teams like Auburn stand up at the line?

[CrimsonNagus]

Of course Auburn is not the only team that does this, just the one I see more often in this part of the country. I've just always wondered why it is not a false start. The offensive line goes down then, a few seconds later, stands up; how is this not a false start? It would be unfair if it caused a defensive player to jump and get called for offsides IMO. If only one offensive player stood up, they'd call that a false start so, why is it different when they all do it? Maybe I'm missing something really easy here (probably am) but, this has bugged me for a few years now (since I noticed the trend with a few teams) and I have just never seeked out an answer.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I've always wondered this as well. I thought once the line becomes "set" they had to stay "set" until the snap of the ball. That's why I couldn't understand how the Dallas Cowboys got away with it in the NFL. With the spread offenses teams routinely go up to the line, the OL gets in their stance then all of the sudden the entire team stands up, looks to the sidelines to change the play.

 

[Bamaboda1]

If I may tag on...why is it not Intentional Grounding when the QB spikes the ball to kill the clock?

 

[Jessica4Bama]

I don't know either. I heard an announcer for the NFL say a few weeks back that when the fingers are on the ground that they cannot move.

 

[GreatMarch]

If an offensive player on the LOS is in a 3 point stance (hand on the ground) and they are covered they cannot move from that stance. The end lineman in a 3 point stance can pick his hand up but must reset for a count before the ball snaps. If an offensive lineman is in a set 2 point stance then they must remain set without a motion forward or backward. I think with the spread offenses and looks to the sidelines, officials have allowed interior lineman to much room for movement. There may have been a rule change that I am unaware of, but presently in college football there is too much movement by offensive lineman from the 2 point stance when they are covered allowed. A guard hasd no business stepping back and looking to the sidelines for play call or blocking schemes once he is set at the LOS.

 

[GreatMarch]

As far as grounding is concerend. Grounding is committed when trying to avoid a sack. Grounding the ball to stop the clock is an attempt to stop the clock and by no mena an attempt to avoid a sack.

 

[uafan4life]

If an offensive player on the LOS is in a 3 point stance (hand on the ground) and they are covered they cannot move from that stance. The end lineman in a 3 point stance can pick his hand up but must reset for a count before the ball snaps. If an offensive lineman is in a set 2 point stance then they must remain set without a motion forward or backward. I think with the spread offenses and looks to the sidelines, officials have allowed interior lineman to much room for movement. There may have been a rule change that I am unaware of, but presently in college football there is too much movement by offensive lineman from the 2 point stance when they are covered allowed. A guard hasd no business stepping back and looking to the sidelines for play call or blocking schemes once he is set at the LOS.

Spot on. Technically, as long as they haven't taken a 3-point stance, the interior linemen can stand up, but they can't move - or step - forward or backward.

It's really a spirit of the law versus the letter of the law thing. When spread teams do that, they aren't trying to confuse the defense or draw them off-sides. So, while it may violate the letter of the law, it is within the spirit of the law.

However, let one or two of these spread teams run a quick snap with the linemen standing up as a trick play and you'll start seeing it enforced.

 

[AlistarWills]

I think one way to find out is to blast through one of the linemen when they stand up. How does the defender know they are just getting a play anyway? What is different in standing up from a 2 pt stance vs. flinching. If one of them were to move a fist in a quick manner, it'd be a false start. What if a team "stood up to get a play" in a quick manner, and the defense jumped, is this drawing a player offsides? I'd love to hear from out resident referees on this. Very interesting topic.

 

[RTR91]

As far as grounding is concerend. Grounding is committed when trying to avoid a sack. Grounding the ball to stop the clock is an attempt to stop the clock and by no mena an attempt to avoid a sack.

Well technically it is. You're avoiding the sack by not even having a long enough play. :tongue:

 

[Wyatt]

I have too. Back in the day when I played, 1980's. when you came to the line and your feet were set more than 3 seconds, I believe, you were locked in. Now they stand up, shuffle feet, turn around, etc. The receiver could move right or left but not turn sideways and walk a few steps. The center couldn't pick up the ball either. See that now also. Another one is the center turning around to the QB and the nose of the ball comes up. Back then, if that ball moved AT ALL it was procedure.
Also, a QB, once he had his hand under center could not pull them out unless he was calling timeout. I played QB and I remember we put in a play where we would drop back into the shotgun and when I went to the line I had to put my hands on my thighs and try to hide them but if they went under center and I moved back into the shotgun it was illegal procedure.

 

[MattinBama]

This bugs the mess out of me when teams do this. I kept hoping when it first started that opposing coaches would just have their linemen hit the offensive linemen everytime until they stopped doing it or starting calling false starts on them.

 

[Alabama22]

The way I understand it, if they haven't gotten down in their three-point stance with their hands on the ground, they can do whatever they need to do as long as they don't move for a second before the ball is snapped. What I'm seeing that bothers me is when the offensive linemen are moving their arms pointing to the defense or when the center moves his head up and down between his legs just prior to snapping the ball to a QB in the shotgun. I thought the same rule applies here.

 

[CmdrThor]

As far as grounding is concerend. Grounding is committed when trying to avoid a sack. Grounding the ball to stop the clock is an attempt to stop the clock and by no mena an attempt to avoid a sack.

Well technically it is. You're avoiding the sack by not even having a long enough play. :tongue:

Rule 7-3

ARTICLE 2. A forward pass is illegal:


d. If, to conserve time, the pass is not thrown immediately after the ball is first controlled after the snap or is thrown after the ball has touched the ground. If, to conserve time, the pass is thrown where no eligible Team A player has a reasonable opportunity to catch it (A.R. 7-3-2-II-VIII) [S35 and S9].


f. If, to save loss of yardage, a forward pass is thrown where no eligible Team A player has a reasonable opportunity to catch it. When in question, the Team A player has a reasonable opportunity to catch the pass (A.R. 7-3-2-I) [S36 and S9].
[Exception: It is not a foul when the passer, who is or has been outside the tackle box, throws the ball so that it crosses or lands beyond the neutral zone or neutral zone extended (Rule 2-19-3) (A.R. 7-3-2-IX)].

So, if the quarterback spikes the ball, he is doing so to conserve time and he did it immediately after the snap. If he takes a three step drop, then spikes it, that would be a penalty. If he takes a three step drop and throws it 20 yards out of bounds, that is a penalty unless he was outside the tackle box.

 

[CmdrThor]

I think one way to find out is to blast through one of the linemen when they stand up. How does the defender know they are just getting a play anyway? What is different in standing up from a 2 pt stance vs. flinching. If one of them were to move a fist in a quick manner, it'd be a false start. What if a team "stood up to get a play" in a quick manner, and the defense jumped, is this drawing a player offsides? I'd love to hear from out resident referees on this. Very interesting topic.

That depends on whether it was a smooth or jerky movement. If the linemen stand up in a quick manner and the officials determine it was an attempt to draw the defense offsides, it will be a false start. If they stand up smoothly and have been doing so all day in the same manner, it will be offsides.

Rule 7-1
ARTICLE 4. a. If a snap is preceded by a huddle or shift, all players of the offensive team must come to an absolute stop and remain stationary in their positions, without movement of the feet, body, head or arms, for at least one full second before the ball is snapped (A.R. 7-1-4-I) [S20].
b. It is not intended that Rule 7-1-4-a should prohibit smooth, rhythmical shifts if properly executed. A smooth cadence shift or unhurried motion is not an infraction. However, it is the responsibility of an offensive player who moves before the snap to do so in a manner that in no way simulates the beginning of a play. After the ball is ready for play and all players are in scrimmage formation, no offensive player shall make a quick, jerky movement before the snap, including but not limited to (A.R. 7-1-4-II-IV):
1. A lineman moving his foot, shoulder, arm, body or head in a quick, jerky motion in any direction [S19].
2. The snapper shifting or moving the ball or moving his thumb or fingers, flexing his elbows, jerking his head, or dipping his shoulders or buttocks [S19].
3. The quarterback “chucking’’ his hands at the snapper, flexing his elbows under the snapper, jerking his head or dropping his shoulders quickly just before the snap [S19].
4. A player, before the snap, simulating receiving the ball by “chucking’’ his hands toward the snapper or quarterback or making any quick, jerky movement that simulates the beginning of a play [S19].

 

[ALA2262]

So, if the quarterback spikes the ball, he is doing so to conserve time and he did it immediately after the snap. If he takes a three step drop, then spikes it, that would be a penalty. If he takes a three step drop and throws it 20 yards out of bounds, that is a penalty unless he was outside the tackle box.

I still don't think it should be allowed. Grounding the ball is grounding the ball no matter how you cut it, and should be illegal. I know I'm "Old School", but I don't even agree with the outside the box/ beyond the line of scrimmage thing. IMO, when you throw the ball, there should be an eligible receiver to catch it where it is thrown.

 

[crimsonaudio]

I still don't think it should be allowed. Grounding the ball is grounding the ball no matter how you cut it, and should be illegal. I know I'm "Old School", but I don't even agree with the outside the box/ beyond the line of scrimmage thing. IMO, when you throw the ball, there should be an eligible receiver to catch it where it is thrown.

The only difference is you don't lose the, what, one yard? The down is still lost, which is the grounding penalty (at the spot of the ball).

I think the concession was made because it keep unnecessary penalties from slowing the game down.

 

[NationalTitles18]

If a lineman has hand(s) on the ground he is stuck there unless he is an eligible receiver. If the hands are up then shifts are allowed but not the simulation of the start of a play.

A special rule was implemented several years ago that allowed "spiking the ball" in college football. Before that rule is was intentional grounding to spike it and resulted in a loss of down and yards. I think this rule changed in the late 90's or so.

Heck, I remeber when you could not advance a fumble on defense in college football. I think that changed sometime in the mid to late 80's.

 

[tidefan39817]

I think one way to find out is to blast through one of the linemen when they stand up. How does the defender know they are just getting a play anyway? What is different in standing up from a 2 pt stance vs. flinching. If one of them were to move a fist in a quick manner, it'd be a false start. What if a team "stood up to get a play" in a quick manner, and the defense jumped, is this drawing a player offsides? I'd love to hear from out resident referees on this. Very interesting topic.

don't forget to drill the QB. after a play or two the other team will stop doing it....

 

[colbysullivan]

don't forget to drill the QB. after a play or two the other team will stop doing it....

honestly i wish CNS would tell our players to do just that. the very first time the Barn stands up and looks to the sidelines, we should bull rush the QB and knock him to the ground. it will almost be worth the penalty. i know it won't count as a sack, but try telling that to trotter/moseley/frazier

 

[exiledNms]

But if they changed the rule for the OL (or enforced it), how could Aub & USM & the others run the Meerkat Offense?