How is the church (Christian Church) suppose to operate without tithes?

[Bamabuzzard]

An interesting conversation struck up at church last week regarding the new testament biblical teaching regarding tithing. There were several couples (under the age of 35) that said they do not tithe because it's not scriptural in the new testament.

In the Christian church there is a growing number of young people (under age 35) that believe they are not required to tithe to the church and they do not tithe and have no intentions of tithing. But then the question has to come up. How does the church continue to operate without monetary tithes? What if everyone in the church adopted this belief? This question came up last week when this topic was brought up and the people that said tithing wasn't required had no answer. What are your thoughts?

 

[bamanut_aj]

without tithing, the Church would depend on its members to pay for things themselves.

IOW, our contribution pays for the facilities, salaries, ministries and benevolence. Without a tithe, we would (1) meet in each others homes, like the 1st centruy Church (2) have no salaries as various people would preach, or there wouldn't be much preaching at all, like the 1st century Church, (3) missionaries would rely on the people to whom they are bringing the Gospel for their daily needs, rather than relying on a particular congregation to provide for them; much like the 1st century Church.

 

[NashTIDE]

Matthew 22:21 (King James Version)


21They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.


I think this pretty much sums up that the New Testament does talk about tithing IMO.

 

[Silverback]

An interesting conversation struck up at church last week regarding the new testament biblical teaching regarding tithing. There were several couples (under the age of 35) that said they do not tithe because it's not scriptural in the new testament.

In the Christian church there is a growing number of young people (under age 35) that believe they are not required to tithe to the church and they do not tithe and have no intentions of tithing. But then the question has to come up. How does the church continue to operate without monetary tithes? What if everyone in the church adopted this belief? This question came up last week when this topic was brought up and the people that said tithing wasn't required had no answer. What are your thoughts?

Churches (The physical buildings and such) exist at the will of the members, if the members do not tithe then the church will cease to exist. On a side note, how much should a Preacher earn? What other positions are paid and why (I know my answer but what about yours)? There are issues other than members not tithing causing churches problems and those mismanagement issues are the reason some members do not tithe.

 

[disneybama]

I do not believe in the tithe. I believe that you give what you can. If the church can't get by on that, it has outgrown its usefulness.

We go to a very small church. The church itself is well over 100 years old. We have fewer than 50 regular members. When I first began attending this church, it had a rector that made over $150k/year. And they wondered why they struggled. :cool2:

We now share a rector with two other nearby churches. We do fundraisers for our outreach programs. We get by on a shockingly small amount of money, but still serve the community very well. It can be done.

 

[disneybama]

Matthew 22:21 (King James Version)


21They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.


I think this pretty much sums up that the New Testament does talk about tithing IMO.

Only if you are saying that it doesn't say to tithe. :cool2:

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Very good. This verse was brought up by others that support tithing. Which by the way I do believe in tithing as well.

Matthew 22:21 (King James Version)


21They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.


I think this pretty much sums up that the New Testament does talk about tithing IMO.

 

[HELENKELLERMRI]

There's alot of people living beyond their means. They want to go to a church that has alot to offer, but don't want to tithe because they can't afford to have the things they want and do the things they want. We live in a me society. Church is a socializing place not a worship place to them.

 

[ValuJet]

We are new to our community. Mrs. VJ pretty much leads the churchgoing efforts, and I've attended our new church a few times.

When we first started going, the pastor was doing a series of sermons on tithing. He used a basket full of tennis balls to demonstrate:

He had ten tennis balls each representing 10% of one's income. First and foremost, 1 ball went into the God basket (tithing). 2 tennis balls went into "Savings." His rationale was the other 7 went for us to live on. This was where I had to bite my tongue.

Of those 7, I figure 4 goes to the government - income tax (state and federal), social security, sales tax, property tax, etc. The list goes on and on. Your money is taxed over and over and over. So that leaves 3 to live on, not 7. That is, if you're gainfully employed, try to play by the rules and don't depend on Uncle Sam for handouts.

But yes, the churches - even though they enjoy tax free status, depend on tithes. That 10% benchmark is a little hard for most of us to hit. If I could swap 10% of federal tax relief I'd be more than happy to let the church have it.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

How much a preacher *should* make is up to the members of the church and their leaders. Each pastor is required to do different things at each church. I know some pastors who only preach three sermons a week and delegate work to his deacons and others. But then I know preachers who put in a ton of hours per week. So that is a decision that is not a uniform, one size fits all type answer.

In my opinion I've always thought that whether a position should be a "paid position" or not should be determined by the workload of the position. I've seen churches PAY people to play music in the services, and pay them very well. Yet they are only required to play a couple times a week for about 20 minutes each.

Churches (The physical buildings and such) exist at the will of the members, if the members do not tithe then the church will cease to exist. On a side note, how much should a Preacher earn? What other positions are paid and why (I know my answer but what about yours)? There are issues other than members not tithing causing churches problems and those mismanagement issues are the reason some members do not tithe.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Personally I believe the tithe is biblical in both the new and old testament. The bible teaches that without faith it is impossible to please God. Jesus commended the poor lady who gave out of her poverty. She had faith that God would provide.

I would say for the most part most church goers in America have the means to tithe. The problem is, as mentioned above, they do not want to sacrifice any luxury to do so. So they "say", "We don't have the money." I'm not saying there aren't any who literally do not.

I believe God honors those that tithe when it hurts to tithe. I know I've seen it in my family's finances. By no means am I bragging but telling this to show God's faithfulness. There have been times where either I've been out of a job or we had some unfortunate circumstances happen that required us to come out of pocket. Yet we tithed anyway knowing that we really didn't have the money. Yet some how some way God provided. And his "blessings" aren't always in the form of money.

 

[BAMAFAN IN NY]

Matthew 22:21 (King James Version)


21They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.


I think this pretty much sums up that the New Testament does talk about tithing IMO.

This verse is talking about paying taxes.. Render therefore unto Ceaser the things which are Ceasars... The coins had ceasers face on them.. and unto God the things that are gods.. Faith, loyalty, devotion, love.... Absolutely nothing to do with tithes.

 

[disneybama]

I believe that churches can be just as guilty as the government of deciding what good they need to do in their community, and then setting expectations of their members to meet the financial obligations associated with those programs. If a church isn't getting enough money, it uses guilt to raise more. Guilt as a motivator may not be as bad as the threat of imprisonment, but it certainly isn't something that I support.

There are other ways to raise your money. And, if you can't, then you are spending waaaay too much and I have no sympathy.

 

[kyallie]

We give regularly,and attend regularly. :smile:

 

[Bamabuzzard]

But what are "the things that are God's" that Jesus said we are to give back to God? The truth of the matter is that many of American Christians steal from God in every area whether it be time, money, service etc. Though I definitely do not see the majority I can count on three fingers the number of people I've met over the years who said "we tithe with our time rather than money" that actually give 10% of their time to God during each week (approximately 16 hrs/week). For years my family and I were guilty of having the attitude of "What can the church do for us? What does the church have for my kids, my family etc." When in reality that is not what Jesus taught. Jesus taught us to serve, not to be served. Yet many Christians today, just as in society, want to take rather than give. Jesus said He came to serve not to be serve. And this was someone who DESERVED to be served. Yet most people in the church today have the opposite attitude. "What are you doing to do for me?" Which goes against the attitude Christ took in His teachings.

This verse is talking about paying taxes.. Render therefore unto Ceaser the things which are Ceasars... The coins had ceasers face on them.. and unto God the things that are gods.. Faith, loyalty, devotion, love.... Absolutely nothing to do with tithes.

 

[dayhiker]

I do not believe in the tithe. I believe that you give what you can. If the church can't get by on that, it has outgrown its usefulness.

We go to a very small church. The church itself is well over 100 years old. We have fewer than 50 regular members. When I first began attending this church, it had a rector that made over $150k/year. And they wondered why they struggled. :cool2:

We now share a rector with two other nearby churches. We do fundraisers for our outreach programs. We get by on a shockingly small amount of money, but still serve the community very well. It can be done.

The problem is, what does give what you can mean? What is Gods and what is ours, and does "what is ours" not come through God?

YouTube - God Pie

 

[Jessica4Bama]

Who came up with people should give 10%? I have always wondered where that % came from.

 

[BAMAFAN IN NY]

But what are "the things that are God's" that Jesus said we are to give back to God? The truth of the matter is that many of American Christians steal from God in every area whether it be time, money, service etc. Though I definitely do not see the majority I can count on three fingers the number of people I've met over the years who said "we tithe with our time rather than money" that actually give 10% of their time to God during each week (approximately 16 hrs/week). For years my family and I were guilty of having the attitude of "What can the church do for us? What does the church have for my kids, my family etc." When in reality that is not what Jesus taught. Jesus taught us to serve, not to be served. Yet many Christians today, just as in society, want to take rather than give. Jesus said He came to serve not to be serve. And this was someone who DESERVED to be served. Yet most people in the church today have the opposite attitude. "What are you doing to do for me?" Which goes against the attitude Christ took in His teachings.

Im all for giving to the church.. Im just pointing out that the quoted scripture had nothing to do with tithes.

 

[bamanut_aj]

this Sunday, our church is approaching our budget a different way.

Traditionally, the elders create a reasonable budget, present it to the church and hope that the church hits the budget. This year we are off by almost $30,000. So, this Sunday, we're doing to do 'purposing'. The elders are asking each member to commit to a weekly amount. The elders will add up the commitments and that will be our budget.

 

[ValuJet]

Who came up with people should give 10%? I have always wondered where that % came from.

I'm not sure. I think Shakespeare said it.