The Cult of Ignorance in America Anti-Intellectualism

[Jon]

LOL, What? I am confused. Are you saying that the home schooling movement is purposefully creating dumber, more easily manipulated people? I certainly hope that isn't what you are saying. If so, well, I don't even know what to say to a person who could be that out of touch. I'll just let you reply before going on.

Uneducated faith heads are the easiest people in the world to control and if you are only education is the bible/koran/torah/insert holy text here you are whoa-fully uneducated.

 

[rgw]

LOL, What? I am confused. Are you saying that the home schooling movement is purposefully creating dumber, more easily manipulated people? I certainly hope that isn't what you are saying. If so, well, I don't even know what to say to a person who could be that out of touch. I'll just let you reply before going on.

I've seen too many examples of botched home schooling to think the encouragement of this movement has roots anywhere other than to dumb the public down. My wife works at a public library and has people who think the summer reading program is about teaching their homeschool kids to read at 7 years or more old. Home school may work in larger cities with those "communes" or whatever they call it for tag-team teaching but what I see in rurality is just another way to pump out an unquestioning bible-fearing-young-earth-believing fool.

 

[rgw]

I'm also no fan of the private christian schools from what I've seen in rurality either. Wife sees kids who can recite more bible verses from memory than letters they can correctly identify in their name at 4 or 5 years old. I'm not saying a theological education is bad but I'd think the emphasis would at least be on writing your own name at that age. Save the theology for when they read the bible and understand the words.

 

[Jon]

I've seen too many examples of botched home schooling to think the encouragement of this movement has roots anywhere other than to dumb the public down. My wife works at a public library and has people who think the summer reading program is about teaching their homeschool kids to read at 7 years or more old. Home school may work in larger cities with those "communes" or whatever they call it for tag-team teaching but what I see in rurality is just another way to pump out an unquestioning bible-fearing-young-earth-believing fool.

as a long time home schooler myself I can do nothing but agree. My wife is a certified teacher and taught in public and private Montessori at some of the best schools in the South. The hardest thing for us has been finding materials and overcoming stereotypes as our kids get older. We chose to home school because we wanted out kids to be educated properly and at their own pace. We didn't want them in the local public schools (my daughter decided to as a freshman, tried and was predictably so far ahead of her peers that she was bored out of her mind) and the local private schools are either elitist snob factories, granola hippy feel good jokes or assembly lines for biblical lemmings. So we home school and even in a big city it is hard. We go to home school events and a healthy portion of the kids are just lost. Wasted, brainwashed fools. It's so sad to see. Because these types represent the plurality of the home school movement a large part of the curricula is dedicated to them. It makes it difficult to find teaching materials, so we often have to create our own. It is also funny that whenever we do group event that we lead with a group of other secular home schoolers we get so much push back and funny reactions. Set up something at a museum for instance and after about 30 minutes the proctor will turn to my wife or one of her friends and say "this is not what I've come to expect from a home school group" as they've experience far too many Christians that freak out at any mention of reality.

 

[Tidewater]

as a long time home schooler myself I can do nothing but agree. My wife is a certified teacher and taught in public and private Montessori at some of the best schools in the South. The hardest thing for us has been finding materials and overcoming stereotypes as our kids get older. We chose to home school because we wanted out kids to be educated properly and at their own pace. We didn't want them in the local public schools (my daughter decided to as a freshman, tried and was predictably so far ahead of her peers that she was bored out of her mind) and the local private schools are either elitist snob factories, granola hippy feel good jokes or assembly lines for biblical lemmings. So we home school and even in a big city it is hard. We go to home school events and a healthy portion of the kids are just lost. Wasted, brainwashed fools. It's so sad to see. Because these types represent the plurality of the home school movement a large part of the curricula is dedicated to them. It makes it difficult to find teaching materials, so we often have to create our own. It is also funny that whenever we do group event that we lead with a group of other secular home schoolers we get so much push back and funny reactions. Set up something at a museum for instance and after about 30 minutes the proctor will turn to my wife or one of her friends and say "this is not what I've come to expect from a home school group" as they've experience far too many Christians that freak out at any mention of reality.

It is unfortunate that you could not find a rigorous, non-religious private school within a convenient distance. There are definite economies of scale in education. Developing a lesson plan for one student takes about as much time as developing a lesson plan for twenty.

 

[Jon]

It is unfortunate that you could not find a rigorous, non-religious private school within a convenient distance. There are definite economies of scale in education. Developing a lesson plan for one student takes about as much time as developing a lesson plan for twenty.

sorry, those do exist but I wasn't financially ready to start paying college level tuition when my kids hit Kindergarten

 

[chanson78]

I'm also no fan of the private christian schools from what I've seen in rurality either. Wife sees kids who can recite more bible verses from memory than letters they can correctly identify in their name at 4 or 5 years old. I'm not saying a theological education is bad but I'd think the emphasis would at least be on writing your own name at that age. Save the theology for when they read the bible and understand the words.

Personal anecdote. Where I was growing up, the public schools were terrible. My parents tried a montessori school first (good but too expensive) then a catholic school when I hit 3rd grade. I was there from 3rd to 6th grade. I won't even get into the issues I have with religious indoctrination being 1/5th of a child's daily learning time. However I will relate that when I got to Alabama public schools, I was so far behind it wasn't funny. One example was that I could recite bible verses, but didn't know what a verb was.

Pretty much soured me on the whole christian private school thing.

 

[rgw]

It is unfortunate that you could not find a rigorous, non-religious private school within a convenient distance. There are definite economies of scale in education. Developing a lesson plan for one student takes about as much time as developing a lesson plan for twenty.

This is why home schooling movement has actually made me respect educators even more. I'm seeing all these people failing their children by home schooling yet most educators are getting 20+ kid to do whatever it is they're doing. The anecdote I go back to is my HS graduation. 100 people walked, 90 graduated. 90% hit rate would put you in the hall of fame of most professions but in education people tend to get wrapped up in the 10%. That miss rate is surely higher in some areas but when you have low individual, guardian, and community buy-in on education that will simply be the case. Only Barry Sanders could've ran for big yardage behind some of those Mike Shula era offensive lines. Furthermore, in rural areas where home school groups may not exist due to practicality of travel or limited numbers I think the importance of socialization within peer groups may trump the pure educational issues. I see too many precocious home school children who think they're my peer at the dinner table and think they should be the center of attention at all times. Sometimes they need to be put in a herd of kids and learn that their momma isn't their best friend.

 

[Jon]

This is why home schooling movement has actually made me respect educators even more. I'm seeing all these people failing their children by home schooling yet most educators are getting 20+ kid to do whatever it is they're doing. The anecdote I go back to is my HS graduation. 100 people walked, 90 graduated. 90% hit rate would put you in the hall of fame of most professions but in education people tend to get wrapped up in the 10%. That miss rate is surely higher in some areas but when you have low individual, guardian, and community buy-in on education that will simply be the case. Only Barry Sanders could've ran for big yardage behind some of those Mike Shula era offensive lines. Furthermore, in rural areas where home school groups may not exist due to practicality of travel or limited numbers I think the importance of socialization within peer groups may trump the pure educational issues. I see too many precocious home school children who think they're my peer at the dinner table and think they should be the center of attention at all times. Sometimes they need to be put in a herd of kids and learn that their momma isn't their best friend.

again, complete agreement

 

[2003TIDE]

I'm also no fan of the private christian schools from what I've seen in rurality either. Wife sees kids who can recite more bible verses from memory than letters they can correctly identify in their name at 4 or 5 years old. I'm not saying a theological education is bad but I'd think the emphasis would at least be on writing your own name at that age. Save the theology for when they read the bible and understand the words.

This is my niece. Has issue with reading at grade level in public school. The mom is in denial that she probably has a reading disability, gets mad at the teachers for saying she has a disability, and puts her in the rural private christian school. She still can't read well, but can recite bible verses.

 

[Tidewater]

sorry, those do exist but I wasn't financially ready to start paying college level tuition when my kids hit Kindergarten

I did it for one two-year period, when I lived in Colorado, where the public schools there were surprisingly bad, and when I lived in Kansas, where the schools weren't bad, but my son needed a nun with a ruler to keep his backside in line.
Even with the close attention and firmer discipline the Catholic school afforded him, my son barely graduated, due to indiscipline. He graduated early and got a job at a nursery working outdoors in Kansas in January taught him that he does not want to have a job that required him to work outdoors in Kansas in January. The most valuable thing he learned in high school.

 

[Tidewater]

This is why home schooling movement has actually made me respect educators even more. I'm seeing all these people failing their children by home schooling yet most educators are getting 20+ kid to do whatever it is they're doing. The anecdote I go back to is my HS graduation. 100 people walked, 90 graduated. 90% hit rate would put you in the hall of fame of most professions but in education people tend to get wrapped up in the 10%. That miss rate is surely higher in some areas but when you have low individual, guardian, and community buy-in on education that will simply be the case. Only Barry Sanders could've ran for big yardage behind some of those Mike Shula era offensive lines. Furthermore, in rural areas where home school groups may not exist due to practicality of travel or limited numbers I think the importance of socialization within peer groups may trump the pure educational issues. I see too many precocious home school children who think they're my peer at the dinner table and think they should be the center of attention at all times. Sometimes they need to be put in a herd of kids and learn that their momma isn't their best friend.

In my brief sojourn in secondary education, I learned that if mom and dad don't care about Junior's education ("care" being defined as, feed Junior, check that Junior has done his homework before watching TV or playing video games, and mandate that Junior get to bed at a decent hour), there's little anyone else can do to repair that.

 

[Tidewater]

Here is another factor that maybe the opening post's skeptics of American colleges and universities were thinking of when they expressed disapproval.
Diversity chiefs drowning in dough

University of Virginia Vice President and Chief Officer for Diversity and Equity Marcus Martin, for instance, earns $349,000 annually (the highest of any salary identified by Campus Reform), while University of Texas at Austin Vice President for Diversity and Engagement Gregory Vincent pulls in a comparable $331,000 per year.On average, each administrative position, generally identified as some variation of a chancellor, provost, or dean, earns $175,088—though at least 15 such officials earn well over $200,000 annually, including two administrators who earn more than $300,000 annually.

Nobody in academia dares disapprove a ridiculous salary for a "diversity" VP or dean or provost, because that would be "racist."
Here's an idea. how about admit the best students you can, and stop worrying about how many of them are African-American, hispanic, female, etc. Just get the best students.
I'd rather spend that $349,000 on scholarships for UVa's first-generation college attendees tuition than paying an over-priced "diversity" VP. You could probably fully fund eleven in-state students per year for that money.

 

[Jon]

Here is another factor that maybe the opening post's skeptics of American colleges and universities were thinking of when they expressed disapproval.
Diversity chiefs drowning in dough

Nobody in academia dares disapprove a ridiculous salary for a "diversity" VP or dean or provost, because that would be "racist."
Here's an idea. how about admit the best students you can, and stop worrying about how many of them are African-American, hispanic, female, etc. Just get the best students.
I'd rather spend that $349,000 on scholarships for UVa's first-generation college attendees tuition than paying an over-priced "diversity" VP. You could probably fully fund eleven in-state students per year for that money.

this stuff is indeed crazy, but only a small drop in the bucket of University Waste. I've dealt with all manor of customer in my 20+ year career and none waste money as well or more predictably than a University and there isn't even that much of a difference between the public and private ones when it comes to waste

 

[LA4Bama]

This is why home schooling movement has actually made me respect educators even more. I'm seeing all these people failing their children by home schooling yet most educators are getting 20+ kid to do whatever it is they're doing. The anecdote I go back to is my HS graduation. 100 people walked, 90 graduated. 90% hit rate would put you in the hall of fame of most professions but in education people tend to get wrapped up in the 10%. That miss rate is surely higher in some areas but when you have low individual, guardian, and community buy-in on education that will simply be the case.... Sometimes they need to be put in a herd of kids and learn that their momma isn't their best friend.

This is the #1 factor whether you are talking about public, private, or home schooling. It's a shame your experience with home schooling is so negative.

To me the biggest negative of home schooling is the uncommon but real threat that it hides abused children from the eyes of other adults. It's good for children to be socialized not only with other children, but also with other adults. It's good for parents to be socialized with other parents as well.

We do need to increase the level of respect for the opportunity of being educated. The universalizing of education made it a right where it used to be a privilege. Just because education has become universal doesn't mean it's less of a privilege; it should be seen as a great privilege and a great responsibility, just one extended to all. But this is hard to get people to see when everyone is told it is a right, and rights are understood as things guaranteed to you. When people speak negatively about "democracy", I think this is what they mean -- a former privilege is extended to everyone, all are made to join in, most people don't excel, the process is dumbed down, responsibility is eliminated, and we end up with lowest common denominator education. Turning school into 13 years of publicly funded day care may have helped working moms, but I don't think it has helped increase the respect for education itself. People sort of forget the privilege aspect of education. Maybe we need to make school a bit more competitive again to help people remember there is a responsibility as well as a right.

 

[LA4Bama]

Here is another factor that maybe the opening post's skeptics of American colleges and universities were thinking of when they expressed disapproval.
Diversity chiefs drowning in dough

Nobody in academia dares disapprove a ridiculous salary for a "diversity" VP or dean or provost, because that would be "racist."
Here's an idea. how about admit the best students you can, and stop worrying about how many of them are African-American, hispanic, female, etc. Just get the best students.
I'd rather spend that $349,000 on scholarships for UVa's first-generation college attendees tuition than paying an over-priced "diversity" VP. You could probably fully fund eleven in-state students per year for that money.

This is just a guess, but I'm guessing the price is so high probably because these people are effectively lawyers dealing with a lot of regulations. They probably have to make sure the school has the appearance of being in compliance with whatever state and federal standards demand about diversity.

 

[Tidewater]

this stuff is indeed crazy, but only a small drop in the bucket of University Waste. I've dealt with all manor of customer in my 20+ year career and none waste money as well or more predictably than a University and there isn't even that much of a difference between the public and private ones when it comes to waste

Unfortunately true.
My dean (who did not have a PhD, and was not trying to get a PhD), when I was at a school in the Commonwealth, used to take a summer-long trip to Sri Lanka to "study." The cost of that trip just got rolled up into "the cost of running a university" and passed on to the students in the form of ever-higher tuition rates.

 

[Tidewater]

This is just a guess, but I'm guessing the price is so high probably because these people are effectively lawyers dealing with a lot of regulations. They probably have to make sure the school has the appearance of being in compliance with whatever state and federal standards demand about diversity.

You're probably right. Woe to the school that appears to not care about compliance with the various regs and laws.

I think "diversity," like "safety," is one of those topics that specialists can propose any program, no matter how silly and know that the decision-makers will agree to avoid being labeled anti-diversity (or anti-safety.")
Safety program manager: Sir, I have a proposal for a safety program, that I need you to approve. You're in favor of safety, right?
Decision-maker: Why, yes. Yes, I am.
Safety program manager: I propose we rub dog poop in our hair every Friday afternoon. It's for safety and you're in favor of safety, right?
Decision-maker: Yeah, sure. Sounds good. (Note to self: put yourself on leave every Friday afternoon)

 

[Jon]

Unfortunately true.
My dean (who did not have a PhD, and was not trying to get a PhD), when I was at a school in the Commonwealth, used to take a summer-long trip to Sri Lanka to "study." The cost of that trip just got rolled up into "the cost of running a university" and passed on to the students in the form of ever-higher tuition rates.

I've mentioned it here before but I've sold millions of dollars of software to Universities that was never downloaded and I've sold millions more to groups within universities where another group has hundreds of extra licenses that they are fully legally able to share but absolutely will not and I've sold hardware that sat unopened in a box next to hardware that was bought a year before and never used. And that doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of the waste. I've had to deal with Admins Admins (yes an admin for an admin) and it goes on and on forever, yet they all claim to have no budget. Universities are the Banana Stand of IT Buyers, as in "there's always money in the Banana Stand" from Arrested Development

 

[jthomas666]

In my brief sojourn in secondary education, I learned that if mom and dad don't care about Junior's education ("care" being defined as, feed Junior, check that Junior has done his homework before watching TV or playing video games, and mandate that Junior get to bed at a decent hour), there's little anyone else can do to repair that.

Which is the main reason I get ticked off at people who put all the blame on the teachers. There are definitely bad teachers out there, but if the parents don't support the teachers, whether it's stressing the important of education or supporting a teacher when they are told that their little angel is misbehaving in class, even the best teacher will
have little luck.