QB Competition 2018

[BamaMoon]

I'll ask it this way:

It's 3rd and 7. Good teams know Jalen is more likely to run for it than pass for it so they are going to mush rush him and/or spy him. You feel good about us getting that 3rd down conversion? In big games we make it about 30% of the time, IIRC.

It's 3rd and 7. Tua is in the pistol. You know he's got wheels too. But you also know you can't leave someone uncovered because he'll spot 'em like a pimple on a pretty girl's face. You feel more confident about converting with Tua's arm???

 

[B1GTide]

I'll ask it this way:

It's 3rd and 7. Good teams know Jalen is more likely to run for it than pass for it so they are going to mush rush him and/or spy him. You feel good about us getting that 3rd down conversion? In big games we make it about 30% of the time, IIRC.

It's 3rd and 7. Tua is in the pistol. You know he's got wheels too. But you also know you can't leave someone uncovered because he'll spot 'em like a pimple on a pretty girl's face. You feel more confident about converting with Tua's arm???

You are asking the wrong question if you are talking about this year's CFP, IMO. You are asking which we would be more comfortable with rather than what can be done to help Jalen have a better chance of converting that 3rd and 7.

 

[BamaMoon]

You are asking the wrong question if you are talking about this year's CFP, IMO. You are asking which we would be more comfortable with rather than what can be done to help Jalen have a better chance of converting that 3rd and 7.

Why would a D-1 college qb, who is an aspiring pocket passer, need to have the offense changed for him to thrown a simple pass?

 

[B1GTide]

Why would a D-1 college qb, who is an aspiring pocket passer, need to have the offense changed for him to thrown a simple pass?

We are where we are.

 

[TiderJack]

I'll ask it this way:

It's 3rd and 7. Good teams know Jalen is more likely to run for it than pass for it so they are going to mush rush him and/or spy him. You feel good about us getting that 3rd down conversion? In big games we make it about 30% of the time, IIRC.

It's 3rd and 7. Tua is in the pistol. You know he's got wheels too. But you also know you can't leave someone uncovered because he'll spot 'em like a pimple on a pretty girl's face. You feel more confident about converting with Tua's arm???

I wish I could definitively answer that question but I have only seen Tua throw 56 collegiate passes and complete 35 of them in the 2nd half of blow-out games. I could probably answer that question definitively if I had seen a fairly larger body of work. If you base it on what we have seen in those 56 pass attempts I agree with you.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

I'll ask it this way:

It's 3rd and 7. Good teams know Jalen is more likely to run for it than pass for it so they are going to mush rush him and/or spy him. You feel good about us getting that 3rd down conversion? In big games we make it about 30% of the time, IIRC.

It's 3rd and 7. Tua is in the pistol. You know he's got wheels too. But you also know you can't leave someone uncovered because he'll spot 'em like a pimple on a pretty girl's face. You feel more confident about converting with Tua's arm???

You are wayyyy too confident in Tua's abilities.

 

[CrimsonForce]

I'll ask it this way:

It's 3rd and 7. Good teams know Jalen is more likely to run for it than pass for it so they are going to mush rush him and/or spy him. You feel good about us getting that 3rd down conversion? In big games we make it about 30% of the time, IIRC.

It's 3rd and 7. Tua is in the pistol. You know he's got wheels too. But you also know you can't leave someone uncovered because he'll spot 'em like a pimple on a pretty girl's face. You feel more confident about converting with Tua's arm???

Well, TBH, Tua might make a great play and convert the 3rd down or he might throw a terrible pick 6 like he did against UT. I think that's the big debate - is it worth having a QB who is more of a gunslinger and will make some (good) plays that Jalen wouldn't but will also make some big mistakes that Jalen wouldn't?

 

[CrimsonForce]

We are where we are.

Well, I just want to know, how did we get here? (referencing Saban's presser about ripped jeans a few weeks back)

 

[JustNeedMe81]

I'll ask it this way:

It's 3rd and 7. Good teams know Jalen is more likely to run for it than pass for it so they are going to mush rush him and/or spy him. You feel good about us getting that 3rd down conversion? In big games we make it about 30% of the time, IIRC.

It's 3rd and 7. Tua is in the pistol. You know he's got wheels too. But you also know you can't leave someone uncovered because he'll spot 'em like a pimple on a pretty girl's face. You feel more confident about converting with Tua's arm???

Not exactly true.

32/60 for 520 yards with 1 touchdown averaging 8 yards
39 rush attempts for 211 yards averaging 5 yards.

It's almost even at this point. He's better off trying to pass the ball on 3rd down, but at the same time, If it's 3rd and 5.. chance of Hurts completing pass on 3rd down is very low... He's averaging 53 percent but still I would rather him throw than to run.

Tua is same... his percentage drops if he is in 3rd down situation. He averages 10 yards and if he run, 6 yards.... So there's not whole lot difference between them on third down.

The example you gave wasn't real good.

 

[B1GTide]

Here's the thing - Jalen has monster numbers against the same teams that Tua has produced good numbers against. In the games in which the opponent had a good defense, Tua never entered the game. So we have no idea how good or bad Tua might be against good defenses. We really have no idea.

Anyone that assumes that Tua would have performed better against any of those teams is guessing. Show me a game in which Tua played against a good defense and performed well. During the spring, when he went against you #1 defense, he was shut totally down. He hasn't faced a good defense since.

 

[TiderJack]

Well, TBH, Tua might make a great play and convert the 3rd down or he might throw a terrible pick 6 like he did against UT. I think that's the big debate - is it worth having a QB who is more of a gunslinger and will make some (good) plays that Jalen wouldn't but will also make some big mistakes that Jalen wouldn't?

I remember the Colorado State game when we were up 41-10 and Tua went in and went 1-4 for like 4 yds and we had two straight 3 and outs. CSU scored two quick TD's and Saban got mad and put Jalen back in the game. You just don't know exactly what you are going to get with a young true freshman with little experience. It could be boom or bust as CrimsonForce is saying.

 

[BamaMoon]

Not exactly true.

32/60 for 520 yards with 1 touchdown averaging 8 yards
39 rush attempts for 211 yards averaging 5 yards.

It's almost even at this point. He's better off trying to pass the ball on 3rd down, but at the same time, If it's 3rd and 5.. chance of Hurts completing pass on 3rd down is very low... He's averaging 53 percent but still I would rather him throw than to run.

Tua is same... his percentage drops if he is in 3rd down situation. He averages 10 yards and if he run, 6 yards.... So there's not whole lot difference between them on third down.

The example you gave wasn't real good.

I wan't trying to make a point based on stats...but with what you've seen with eyes.

I confess, this is pretty much where I am. I've just got more confidence in Tua to throw a pass and complete it.

 

[BAMARICH]

Those teams have both lost to teams that could not beat Alabama even with Jalen playing worse than he did against Auburn. I guess that, while I see the warts, I remain very positive.

Definitely agree that if Clemson or Oklahoma were to help us with either turnovers or injuries, we would beat them handily if we ourselves avoid them. In fact, that occurred back in 09 when Colt McCoy went down. GMac had terrible numbers in that game and we won decisively.

 

[TiderJack]

Here's the thing - Jalen has monster numbers against the same teams that Tua has produced good numbers against. In the games in which the opponent had a good defense, Tua never entered the game. So we have no idea how good or bad Tua might be against good defenses. We really have no idea.

Anyone that assumes that Tua would have performed better against any of those teams is guessing. Show me a game in which Tua played against a good defense and performed well. During the spring, when he went against you #1 defense, he was shut totally down. He hasn't faced a good defense since.

Agreed. Here is Tua's passing stats in each game he played. Just not enough for me to say I would have more confidence in him during this play-off.

https://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/players/playerpage/2741209/tua-tagovailoa

 

[BamaMoon]

Here's the thing - Jalen has monster numbers against the same teams that Tua has produced good numbers against. In the games in which the opponent had a good defense, Tua never entered the game. So we have no idea how good or bad Tua might be against good defenses. We really have no idea.

Anyone that assumes that Tua would have performed better against any of those teams is guessing. Show me a game in which Tua played against a good defense and performed well. During the spring, when he went against you #1 defense, he was shut totally down. He hasn't faced a good defense since.

Fair point, but Jalen didn't have "monster" numbers against UT and when Tua got in the game, it was unreal the difference. Just watched it last week.

 

[CrimsonForce]

Fair point, but Jalen didn't have "monster" numbers against UT and when Tua got in the game, it was unreal the difference. Just watched it last week.

Did you also watch the pick 6 where Tua held the ball for about 5 seconds, panicked, then threw it right to the UT defender who had been standing in the same spot for the duration of the play? Tua could make more plays in the passing game than Jalen but he'd also make a lot more mistakes. Tua's a better pure passer, I think we all agree with that, but there's more to the game than that..

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

These two things can be true at the same time.

1. Tua is a more developed passer than Jalen and likely a better pocket QB

2. We have no idea what exactly we will get from Tua in a real game vs a good D. We just haven't seen enough from him.

 

[Mystical]

Why would a D-1 college qb, who is an aspiring pocket passer, need to have the offense changed for him to thrown a simple pass?

It's what the NFL is doing now. Look at the offense Houston put around D. Watson and the offense Philly put around Carson Wentz. They both tailored their offense around the strength of what their QB does. I would not want to face a player like Jalen in that Gus Malzahn offense or a focused Lane Kiffin offense. Also for some reason we seem to play tight against Auburn. We should have beat that Cam Newton lead team and that Nick Marshall lead team. If we had more imagination on offense we would have won the game this year. Despite what some may think Jalen still has the locker room. If he loses that than it will be time for Tua or Mac Jones.

Wonder how some of these great QB's would look playing in the SEC or how Jalen would look playing Baker Mayfield's no defense schedule. Just for comparison Vanderbilt held K State to 7 points, they scored 35 on OK. The media has brain washed you in to believing Alabama had this cupcake easy schedule. We had one true cupcake, Mercer, everyone else we played could have upset any team in America not named Alabama.

 

[B1GTide]

Fair point, but Jalen didn't have "monster" numbers against UT and when Tua got in the game, it was unreal the difference. Just watched it last week.

He was 13/21 passing for 198 yards and a TD while TN was still trying. Tua came into the game with the score 28-0 and threw a pick 6.

 

[TiderJack]

Fair point, but Jalen didn't have "monster" numbers against UT and when Tua got in the game, it was unreal the difference. Just watched it last week.

Not "monster" but he had a good, solid game. 13-21 for 198 yds and 1 TD and 0 INT. Tua was 9-12 for 132 yds and 1 TD and 1 INT. Both played well but an unreal difference?????