Alabama QB competition article

[BamaMoon]

The issue will be decided on how each performs against the 1s, going full speed, with no limitations on blitzes, stunts, or disguised coverages.

Jalen will beat 120 of 135+/- FBS teams easily. He will beat 125 of them, though not necessarily easily. He will probably beat 130 of them. It's the top 5 to 7 he will struggle against. Especially those with elite defenses.


With Jalen starting, and barring a 2017 rash of injuries, we are virtually guaranteed to have an 11-3 / 12-2 record. A lot of those wins will be ones that we'd get with a fellow member of the OFC taking snaps. And one of the losses will be one that really matters.

Jalen's been diagnosed. Every single team we play knows what they need to do. Their problem is that he's so athletic that they can't actually do it, even knowing what's coming. 90-95% of college teams would lose even if we told them the play. We win anyway.

The difference between a ring vs. woulda-coulda-shoulda is as thin as onionskin. And with Jalen taking snaps, we do telegraph heavy tendencies in the coming play. Teams in the SECCG and the playoff take advantage of that, whereas other teams know what they need to do, but just don't have the horses.

Jalen gives us the best chance to be in the conversation in November. Tua gives us the best chance to actually win some hardware that matters.

I think you could have just said "Jalen's been diagnosed."

I don't know if I agree with how "thin" the difference is. To me it's much more glaring.

IMO, it's more than can we win with Jalen? It's true with Jalen we win most of our games, but we'll win some of them "ugly." That's what was happening last year and nobody was happy about it: fans were complaining, players were complaining (poor ball distribution) and recruits were watching and not as ready to commit as in years past or this year.

So for me, it's simple. Not only does Tua seem more fit for the type of offense we want to run, he'll help us win the easy games more easily, he'll help us win the tougher games with more balanced offense and he'll help us win the 50/50 games (probaby more like 60 Bama 40 opponent) when Jalen can't most of the time. All the while our offensive skill players will be much more happy and recruits will want to play in that system and us fans will be able to forget about 3 and outs and balls thrown out of bounds on 3rd and long and the quality of play will be much more appealing/satisfying.

As for these elite 11 reports....Jalen's undefeated when there's no real rush. But he's been diagnosed when there is and we know what happens.

 

[TiderJack]

The issue will be decided on how each performs against the 1s, going full speed, with no limitations on blitzes, stunts, or disguised coverages.

Jalen will beat 120 of 135+/- FBS teams easily. He will beat 125 of them, though not necessarily easily. He will probably beat 130 of them. It's the top 5 to 7 he will struggle against. Especially those with elite defenses.


With Jalen starting, and barring a 2017 rash of injuries, we are virtually guaranteed to have an 11-3 / 12-2 record. A lot of those wins will be ones that we'd get with a fellow member of the OFC taking snaps. And one of the losses will be one that really matters.

Jalen's been diagnosed. Every single team we play knows what they need to do. Their problem is that he's so athletic that they can't actually do it, even knowing what's coming. 90-95% of college teams would lose even if we told them the play. We win anyway.

The difference between a ring vs. woulda-coulda-shoulda is as thin as onionskin. And with Jalen taking snaps, we do telegraph heavy tendencies in the coming play. Teams in the SECCG and the playoff take advantage of that, whereas other teams know what they need to do, but just don't have the horses.

Jalen gives us the best chance to be in the conversation in November. Tua gives us the best chance to actually win some hardware that matters.

I would go as far to say 132 or 133 teams. Jalen has talent and is surrounded with ridiculous talent on both sides of the ball. Only a team with a defense like the Barn or UGA had last year, which is rare, would beat Bama with Jalen at QB from last year. With that said we totally shred just about everybody and beat everybody else fairly handily with Tua at QB IMO.

 

[BamaMoon]

Physically, Hurts has the tools. He might not have Tua's release, but he can get the ball where it needs to go. That never really was the issue with him. To me the main obstacle at this point is mental. .

I agree it's mental with him, but I disagree that he can hit his mark ("get the ball where it needs to go"). His inaccuracy is part of the mental.

He also struggles with anticipation (throwing guys open) and I think he has to see a guy get open, but even then he tucks and runs or waits so late the timing is off.

Until he proves otherwise, I think the gulf is much wider between him and Tua.

 

[RedWave]

Physically, Hurts has the tools. He might not have Tua's release, but he can get the ball where it needs to go. That never really was the issue with him. To me the main obstacle at this point is mental. We saw some development in the offseason last year, some of that carried over into the season (where he did look like a more polished passer early) but he ran into a wall where if anything he had a setback rather than improved. I think there are a few issues that were working against him, I think some things got in his head, but he needs to improve the mental aspects of his game. That isn't to say he becomes a high NFL draft pick or something if he does that, but if he can get over the mental obstacles, then he could focus on fine tuning his game.

I haven't seen much evidence of that. I mean sure, he occasionally hit some good passes. But I am not even certain whether that was a fluke or not when he did.

 

[RedWave]

I would go as far to say 132 or 133 teams. Jalen has talent and is surrounded with ridiculous talent on both sides of the ball. Only a team with a defense like the Barn or UGA had last year, which is rare, would beat Bama with Jalen at QB from last year. With that said we totally shred just about everybody and beat everybody else fairly handily with Tua at QB IMO.

Yes and no. Though we did manage to win against MSU, A&M, and LSU last year, I would be more likely to say we won in spite of him rather than he beat them. I would even go as far as to say I think he indirectly attributed to our linebacker attrition last year just due to those guys getting on the field so often and so quickly after getting off due to the offense stalling. I think we were fortunate to have each of those games result in wins last year. Any of them could have gone the other way had it not been for other things going just right. And I know they don't look as close on paper but each of those games had me quite worried at times.

 

[KrAzY3]

I haven't seen much evidence of that. I mean sure, he occasionally hit some good passes. But I am not even certain whether that was a fluke or not when he did.

That's kind of an absurd statement. Hurts had some great games passing, those were all accidents? He struggled against elite defenses, but he had other good games. The context here was how good he looked throwing for the record, that to was a fluke right? He looked great his second A-Day throwing the ball, heck you do realize he was one of the higher rated quarterbacks in the FBS right? I think most everyone has come to understand that Hurts can do very well against weak defenses and struggles against good defenses. You have to be able to throw the ball to do well, even against a weak defense. I'm not arguing that he's consistent, just that he has the physical tools to do what we've all seen him do. He has issues, yes, but man come on. No credit for anything is due right? All his good passes were flukes...

 

[TiderJack]

Yes and no. Though we did manage to win against MSU, A&M, and LSU last year, I would be more likely to say we won in spite of him rather than he beat them. I would even go as far as to say I think he indirectly attributed to our linebacker attrition last year just due to those guys getting on the field so often and so quickly after getting off due to the offense stalling. I think we were fortunate to have each of those games result in wins last year. Any of them could have gone the other way had it not been for other things going just right. And I know they don't look as close on paper but each of those games had me quite worried at times.

I agree overall with your comment. MSU was really the only "close" game and Jalen won it for us in the end but it was his earlier struggles that set-up the comeback. A&M and LSWho was never in doubt in my mind but was tough to watch our offense.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

Yes and no. Though we did manage to win against MSU, A&M, and LSU last year, I would be more likely to say we won in spite of him rather than he beat them. I would even go as far as to say I think he indirectly attributed to our linebacker attrition last year just due to those guys getting on the field so often and so quickly after getting off due to the offense stalling. I think we were fortunate to have each of those games result in wins last year. Any of them could have gone the other way had it not been for other things going just right. And I know they don't look as close on paper but each of those games had me quite worried at times.

That's a stretch.

 

[RedWave]

That's a stretch.

Maybe so. We can go back and watch the games and see what was going on with the offense around the time those injuries happened. Unless, of course, you are not one who believes that fatigue is a factor in injuries.

 

[RTR91]

Maybe so. We can go back and watch the games and see what was going on with the offense around the time those injuries happened. Unless, of course, you are not one who believes that fatigue is a factor in injuries.

With most of the injuries coming in the first month of the season, fatigue should not have been much of an issue. How was fatigue an issue against Florida State with Miller and Lewis?

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

Maybe so. We can go back and watch the games and see what was going on with the offense around the time those injuries happened. Unless, of course, you are not one who believes that fatigue is a factor in injuries.

I wasn't aware that was even an option. That would be absurd. And, we could go back and look at all the factors that led to those injuries, that would be the responsible thing to do. It seems a little reckless and unfair to put those injuries on Jalen unless you have a bunch of data to back it up somehow.

 

[KrAzY3]

I wasn't aware that was even an option. That would be absurd. And, we could go back and look at all the factors that led to those injuries, that would be the responsible thing to do. It seems a little reckless and unfair to put those injuries on Jalen unless you have a bunch of data to back it up somehow.

Come on, you need to get your facts straight. Alabama won games despite Jalen's attempts to sabotage them. Even when he had around 300 yards and 3 TDs, it was really a clever attempt to make Alabama lose. Also, every single good pass he ever made was a fluke, he was trying to throw it out of bounds. And finally, when Alabama players slept Jalen Hurts would... wait for it... hurt them, but in ways so subtle that they wouldn't realize they were injured until the game started. These are all facts.

 

[RedWave]

Come on, you need to get your facts straight. Alabama won games despite Jalen's attempts to sabotage them. Even when he had around 300 yards and 3 TDs, it was really a clever attempt to make Alabama lose. Also, every single good pass he ever made was a fluke, he was trying to throw it out of bounds. And finally, when Alabama players slept Jalen Hurts would... wait for it... hurt them, but in ways so subtle that they wouldn't realize they were injured until the game started. These are all facts.

Show me where in these stats he did that.

 

[Intl.Aperture]

Show me where in these stats he did that.

He's talking cumulative all purpose yards, rushing and passing. Jalen would or could account for about that much a game.

 

[KrAzY3]

Show me where in these stats he did that.

You didn't say please. Good thing I checked before making my sarcastic post.

Fresno State, Colorado State, and Ole Miss. The previous year we can add Tennessee, Miss. State, and Auburn (I'm being pretty strict with my use of the word around).

Now I'll wait for you to try to discredit this, but before you do... rushing yards and rushing touchdowns count just as much as passing yards and passing touchdowns. Having said that, he did actually throw for 347 yards and 4 TDs against Miss. State.

 

[RedWave]

I wasn't aware that was even an option. That would be absurd. And, we could go back and look at all the factors that led to those injuries, that would be the responsible thing to do. It seems a little reckless and unfair to put those injuries on Jalen unless you have a bunch of data to back it up somehow.

I am not saying it is all on him. I said indirectly for a reason. And these could be injuries they would have suffered regardless of how the offense was doing. I totally agree there. However, some injuries happen from bad technique, right? Fatigue hurts focus and can cause bad technique. All I am saying is that if our offense were moving the ball better throughout the year, meaning less time on the field for our defense, we may not have had some of those injuries. However, it is possible these injuries are S&C issues as well.

But someone referenced Miller and Lewis getting hurt in the FSU game(forgetting that Evans was also hurt in that one and missed the next two games). True. But SDH was injured in the LSU game (out for the season). IIRC, Minkah started struggling with injuries in that game too, but never missed a game from it. Mack Wilson also was hurt in the LSU game and missed 2 from that. So yes, we had some early in the FSU game, but the fatigue really picked up and we started having more struggles right around the MSU/LSU games.

 

[BamaMoon]

Injury talk aside, I know for a fact that a bunch of 3 and outs in big games is hard to overcome.

But it is only common sense to think that if the defense was on the field more (and they were in some games) there's a greater chance for injury. Not saying that accounts for the injuries, but if we can't see the possible correlation we are ignoring reality.

 

[RedWave]

You didn't say please. Good thing I checked before making my sarcastic post.

Fresno State, Colorado State, and Ole Miss. The previous year we can add Tennessee, Miss. State, and Auburn (I'm being pretty strict with my use of the word around).

Now I'll wait for you to try to discredit this, but before you do... rushing yards and rushing touchdowns count just as much as passing yards and passing touchdowns. Having said that, he did actually throw for 347 yards and 4 TDs against Miss. State.

I don't see it that way, Mr. Hurts. His rushing stats, which obviously show how great an athlete he is (a point I have never doubted) in many cases were just taking yards away from a backfield of incredible RB's who would have gotten those yards as well. Or were taken away from the WR's he should have thrown the ball to, but pulled the ball down and ran instead. Sometimes, yes, you need to do that. But not nearly as often as he did.

As for 2016 games, I agree. I thought he showed tremendous potential that season and 2017 was a major regression from his SEC Offensive Player Of The Year season as a freshman.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

I am not saying it is all on him. I said indirectly for a reason. And these could be injuries they would have suffered regardless of how the offense was doing. I totally agree there. However, some injuries happen from bad technique, right? Fatigue hurts focus and can cause bad technique. All I am saying is that if our offense were moving the ball better throughout the year, meaning less time on the field for our defense, we may not have had some of those injuries. However, it is possible these injuries are S&C issues as well.

But someone referenced Miller and Lewis getting hurt in the FSU game(forgetting that Evans was also hurt in that one and missed the next two games). True. But SDH was injured in the LSU game (out for the season). IIRC, Minkah started struggling with injuries in that game too, but never missed a game from it. Mack Wilson also was hurt in the LSU game and missed 2 from that. So yes, we had some early in the FSU game, but the fatigue really picked up and we started having more struggles right around the MSU/LSU games.

There are injuries in football. I just think its a stretch to put any of the blame on Jalen. It's not like he was actively working against the team. I see what you're saying and I just think there are plenty of other, more fair, criticisms of Jalen that we can directly link to him much more clearly.

 

[RedWave]

There are injuries in football. I just think its a stretch to put any of the blame on Jalen. It's not like he was actively working against the team. I see what you're saying and I just think there are plenty of other, more fair, criticisms of Jalen that we can directly link to him much more clearly.

Of course there are, but this is a long thread and those have been discussed enough. That is just a thought I had in my head that his play could have possibly led to some of the injuries but only indirectly.