Alabama QB competition article

[BAMAfan777]

Re: Alabama QB competition article (ALL QB posts here, please)

You know how we know Tua is the starter for certain. Hurts’ comments come from someone who knows he has all the cards at this point, nothing to lose. Someone with something at stake would never make those comments on a Nick Saban team, if they thought they had anything to lose.

 

[Mystical]

Re: Alabama QB competition article (ALL QB posts here, please)

It's unfortunate that Jalen gave that interview. With the talk of branding, I think that is just coach speak that he didn't deliver correctly. Your brand is what defines you. I don't believe he meant branding in the sense of trying to sell products but in the sense of being a competitor a team player and representing The University of Alabama. When he was talking about the coaches can't control this it was to a question about responding to postings on social media. Prior to that question from the reporter he was talking about all the stuff coming to him and he was not looking for it but people were bringing it to him. Paraphrasing Jalen here [He said this, his dad most likely, and Coach Saban said this. What did Jalen say?] I thought that was interesting. Kind of gives a clue to the dynamic he has had to deal with potentially of teammates asking if he is quitting on the team. There is no level in any sport where you are going to win the locker room if the guys think you are going to quit on them. Kawi Leonard knew he could never go back in to that Spurs locker room with talk of him quitting on the team. One of the reasons he has been killed in the media is because he never spoke and let the media and fans write his narrative. For better or worse at least now we know what Jalen's thoughts are it won't affect who starts in the fall. The consensus on this board all summer has been Tua will start and Jalen needs to switch positions or transfer. I don't think his interview has changed those peoples opinion in the slightest.

 

[BAMAfan777]

Re: Alabama QB competition article (ALL QB posts here, please)

I thought there was a decent chance that coach might give Jalen the “token start” then put their real first stringer, Tua, in shortly after.....due to respect. But now!

 

[drwho]

Re: Alabama QB competition article (ALL QB posts here, please)

Interesting post, what *if* Tua has a less than stellar fall camp? Then what?

"Less than stellar" from Tua would still be the top QB in camp.

 

[RammerJammer15]

Re: Alabama QB competition article (ALL QB posts here, please)

"Less than stellar" from Tua would still be the top QB in camp.

Ok, should've said it like this, what if Jalen outplays Tua in camp? Now what?

 

[drwho]

Re: Alabama QB competition article (ALL QB posts here, please)

Ok, should've said it like this, what if Jalen outplays Tua in camp? Now what?

Not going to happen.

 

[B1GTide]

Re: Alabama QB competition article (ALL QB posts here, please)

Ok, should've said it like this, what if Jalen outplays Tua in camp? Now what?

You can't outplay someone in camp because you don't play games in camp. Jalen's first chance to outplay Tua will come in September. The only thing that he can hope to accomplish between now and then is perform well in practice and win the team. We already know that the offensive players prefer Tua at QB because they get to showcase their abilities with Tua at QB. I'm not sure about the rest of the team, but the defense also seemed to play with more spirit when Tua came into the game against GA. So, IMO, of the things required of Jalen - preform well in camp and win the team - the later seems very unlikely. That means that the best he can hope for is to perform well in practice. I don't think that Saban is going to give him the nod based on that alone at this point.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Against their opponents, Jalen wouldn't lose a game.

He only lost two playing the beasts of the beasts, so.......

 

[Intl.Aperture]

Re: Alabama QB competition article (ALL QB posts here, please)

The national media doesn't really see it that way. Everyone rushed to say how eloquent or whatever he sounded. Media is gonna Stan for Hurts on this one. Saban would never pull his scholarship because Hurts made the "I'm close to graduating" a part of the narrative; may see him just remove him from team activities if his attitude is like this or worse internally.

I honestly doubt it gets that bad internally. This board and the fandom as a whole is a little like a boiler. We get to frothing and hypothesizing and pretty soon, according to us, Jalen is staging a sit-in at center field of Bryant-Denny and is refusing food till he is given the starting QB job. This post isn't directed at you, you've been making great points.

My take is that, Jalen never seemed like the type of guy who needed reassuring or encouraging talks. He was the stalwart. The unflappable freshman phenom who could slip his way out of impossible defensive pressure and turn what should be a sack into 20 yard gains. He seemed so rock solid mentally. But the truth is that he's a kid. And as mature and advanced as he may be, he likely still needs some of the grace and personal touch that other kids need. I'm not saying coddle him and I'm not saying that what he said was right. I think he put his foot in his mouth a little bit but I don't think he's a jerk or a malcontent bent on spreading his malice throughout the team. I don't think he has suddenly gone from a leader to a cancer.

To be honest while I think a lot of the fan critique and criticism of Jalen's game is fair, it must unbelievably hard to deal with from his and his family's point of view. It must feel liek the fandom that hailed him as a savior has suddenly turned on him. Of course it had nothing to do with him personally but to have millions of people talking about all the reasons why you aren't good enough has to get to you. It would me.

Honestly, I just sympathize with him. I don't endorse all his decisions but I can empathize with his situation. It's a tough tough world to live in. One wrong step and this is what can happen.

 

[twofbyc]

Alabama QB competition article (ALL QB posts here, please)

I disagree. All Saban did was express the same life philosophy he has so many times about the past, present, and the future (tomorrow is a mystery). He didn't (doesn't) know, no more than any of the rest of us, whether Jalen will be in fall camp or not. Hell, Jalen doesn't know. It's unfortunate the juxtaposition of that Weltanschauung with the circumstances at the moment. He's the one being consistent...

I never implied Saban wasn’t consistent, but I don’t think for a second his comment about not knowing Jalen’s intentions were NOT influenced by the Dad’s comment.
If that’s what you disagree with, then we just agree to disagree.
I don’t think the question is even asked of Saban minus dad’s comment, but if it had been I don’t think his answer would have been exactly the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RammerJammer15]

Re: Alabama QB competition article (ALL QB posts here, please)

Not going to happen.

It’s not but what *if* it does?

But see this goes back to Jalen’s point about the narrative already being created. No one is even giving the dude a chance.

 

[CrimsonProf]

He only lost two playing the beasts of the beasts, so.......

Yes, and he went 15-1 in 2016 with an otherworldy defense that put points on the board in a manner we've almost never seen.

Jalen has played very well for the program, but his record cannot be isolated from the play of defense and special teams in 2016. Without that effort, I'm not sure we make it so far.

 

[gtgilbert]

Re: Alabama QB competition article (ALL QB posts here, please)

It’s not but what *if* it does?

But see this goes back to Jalen’s point about the narrative already being created. No one is even giving the dude a chance.

Externally maybe no one is, but inside the program he is being given every possible chance to keep his job. He was at the front of the line when spring started and was getting equal reps to Tua till Tua got hurt. Then Jalen was getting more reps than Jones, but jones still showed some things Jalen has not in his ability to progress through reads (yes, not against the same level of talent, but still).

As bad as the video seems, I don't fault jalen for answering a question he was asked. It wasn't the best answer, but it is what it is. For all we know when he was talking about people not asking him how he feels, he was really referencing the MEDIA and to some degree his family (i.e. his dad's comments), because I am sure that Saban laid out that they were going to have to compete. It's been all the external stuff that's created the story of him leaving, and for all we know that was never really HIS plan because he was going to stick this season out regardless.

 

[RedWave]

I feel bad for Jalen. I really do. All of this has to hurt him and his pride a bit. He likely has never been in a situation where he wasn't the best on the field up until his time at Alabama. I can see where you could easily start to feel unstoppable and get your hopes way up in terms of what you can accomplish. The reality that this will not happen can understandably be tough to stomach. I doubt he has had to face it before, and he didn't know how to handle it.

All that said, I do think that he needs to remember that Coach Saban has an obligation to more players than just himself. There are, what, 85 players (?) on that team? I have no idea. But Coach Saban has an obligation to every single player on that team to give them the best chance at being successful. From what I can tell, and most of us agree, the team has a better chance with Tua at the helm than with Jalen. Some, myself included, would argue they are likely better off with Mac Jones than Jalen as well. He at least gives the RB's. WR's. TE's a chance to do what they are supposed to do. So, I don't feel too bad if Jalen can't see that his own personal feelings fall behind those of the group as a whole. I sympathize with where he is coming from, but a lot of this falls on him and his father. And I don't mean about the talking to the press. I am referring to taking the easy route of getting into the habit of just out-athleting everyone on the field because you could rather than working on developing into what you need to be.

 

[CB4]

Re: Alabama QB competition article (ALL QB posts here, please)

Yes, and he went 15-1 in 2016 with an otherworldy defense that put points on the board in a manner we've almost never seen.

Jalen has played very well for the program, but his record cannot be isolated from the play of defense and special teams in 2016. Without that effort, I'm not sure we make it so far.

I also believe that the way Jalen was “handled” in his freshman year may have hindered his progress as a qb in terms of the passing game. Let’s face it. Jalen as a freshman was pretty much told he didn’t need to “win the game”. Just don’t “lose it” by forcing the ball into coverage, throwing interceptions and turning it over. He was given a limited playbook and we played to the defense. And up until the Championship game against Clemson, it worked rather well.
And as we saw in the latter part of the last year and even to some extent in the spring, Jalen hasn’t progressed in the passing game in terms of medium and deep routes especially. Against nine or so of the teams out there on our schedule this year, you could roll Jalen out there will Harris, Harris and Robinson (sounds like a law firm) and pound them and win.
My thought is this year, with only 3 returning starters on defense (granted we have a lot of young talent), it may take some time for those guys to “gel”, especially in the secondary. There maybe times we have to our score people in order to win. And probably we need a more diverse attack to get to ball to our playmakers. And Tua probably offers that.

 

[RedWave]

Re: Alabama QB competition article (ALL QB posts here, please)

I also believe that the way Jalen was “handled” in his freshman year may have hindered his progress as a qb in terms of the passing game. Let’s face it. Jalen as a freshman was pretty much told he didn’t need to “win the game”. Just don’t “lose it” by forcing the ball into coverage, throwing interceptions and turning it over. He was given a limited playbook and we played to the defense. And up until the Championship game against Clemson, it worked rather well.
And as we saw in the latter part of the last year and even to some extent in the spring, Jalen hasn’t progressed in the passing game in terms of medium and deep routes especially. Against nine or so of the teams out there on our schedule this year, you could roll Jalen out there will Harris, Harris and Robinson (sounds like a law firm) and pound them and win.
My thought is this year, with only 3 returning starters on defense (granted we have a lot of young talent), it may take some time for those guys to “gel”, especially in the secondary. There maybe times we have to our score people in order to win. And probably we need a more diverse attack to get to ball to our playmakers. And Tua probably offers that.

I tend to agree that maybe we did not do enough to develop him as a passer and just let our defense and running game win it for us. But maybe the truth is that we tried to develop him and he wasn't catching on. It is clear that last year they were passing often enough in practice that everyone could see Tua was better at it. Maybe we gave Jalen that whole one read and run assignment because it is all he could do. I don't pretend to know what happens at practice, but I doubt we stuck to the most basic stuff and didn't at least try to teach him more.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Re: Alabama QB competition article (ALL QB posts here, please)

Ok, should've said it like this, what if Jalen outplays Tua in camp? Now what?

There is no "Now what?" and won't be a "Now what?". Fall camp is simply not enough time to form a body of work to outweigh the second half of the title game and what we now know occurred around the aTm game of last season. In that the coaching staff knew that Tua was the better QB and had actually won the team. We (the fans) didn't know until after the title game when that interview came out to confirm a lot of the internet "rumblings" leaking out. But the fact of the matter is the coaches have a larger body of work that Tua is the better quarterback than enough time left for Jalen to completely make them go against that body of work. His best chance was to show out during the spring game and he basically (in my opinion) put the nail in the coffin of his chances to win the job. He showed zero progress or improvement.

 

[BamaMoon]

Re: Alabama QB competition article (ALL QB posts here, please)

Too much to unpack, but all things considered, this is a good problem to have. I also think CNS will handle it as well as it can be handled. I am officially in the rotate two elite quarterbacks camp.

There was always just a slim chance for that and slim walked out the door when Jalen opened up his mouth.

This has been discussed and there is really no significant benefit of playing Jalen over Tua. Tua's passing is off the charts and I think Tua's scrambling abilities are better because he'll know "when" to do it and Jalen never understood that. I'd give Jalen the nod in the open field because he's fast and makes good cuts, but other than that, there's just not real advantage to playing them both.

I thought there was a decent chance that coach might give Jalen the “token start” then put their real first stringer, Tua, in shortly after.....due to respect. But now!

This has been discussed. The problem is the Cards don't present us with a very difficult defense. So what do you do if you start Jalen with a token start planning to allow Tua to play most of the game and then Jalen leads us on an easy TD drive? If CNS really believes Tua is better (and I beleive he does deep down in his heart) why even do this and possibly create controversy in the above scenario?

As a matter of fact, if I was Jalen I'd be insulted to be given "the token start" if that's all CNS planned it to be. How embarrassing would it be to have a decent first series to only be pulled? Talk about creating even more drama. How would daddy and momma Hurts handle that???

 

[CB4]

Re: Alabama QB competition article (ALL QB posts here, please)

I tend to agree that maybe we did not do enough to develop him as a passer and just let our defense and running game win it for us. But maybe the truth is that we tried to develop him and he wasn't catching on. It is clear that last year they were passing often enough in practice that everyone could see Tua was better at it. Maybe we gave Jalen that whole one read and run assignment because it is all he could do. I don't pretend to know what happens at practice, but I doubt we stuck to the most basic stuff and didn't at least try to teach him more.

Didn’t mean to imply that we didn’t attempt to develop Jalen in the downfield passing. I think it just reached a point where the idea was “how do we best use his skill set?” which became a “two reads and run” philosophy. It’s not a question whether Jalen can be a serviceable QB and win a lot of games this year. The question is which of the two, Jalen or Tua, gives you the greatest ability to take advantage of the plethora of talent at the skilled positions on offensive? At this point it clearly points to Tua.
Goes back to when I was a kid complaining about lack of playing time on the baseball team or where I was in the batting order. My dad’s simple statement “Shut the h*** up and go show them that you’re better.”

That’s what Jalen needs to do.

 

[CrimSonami]

Re: Alabama QB competition article (ALL QB posts here, please)

After seeing the interview I'm of the impression Jalen will graduate in January and transfer. It's been stated before (maybe another thread) that he should take advantage of the new RS Rule and have 2 years remaining eligibility. And I think he should. IF that happens I'll thank him for his contribution and wish him well. The guy is a winner who's been the victim of circumstance in a high pressure, high profile program and I'm glad he chose Alabama.