Tua's Heisman Campaign watch

[CrimsonTheory]

Let Kyler have the Heisman, but I am 100% sure that is NOT the trophy that Tua wants.

And no I do not believe Tua needs a "shinning, MVP Performance" to keep the lead and/or win the Heisman. Tua doing Tua things should be more than enough to hold off Kyler. Murray has to keep putting up "video game numbers" just to keep pace with Tua. Tua going 14-22 with 260 yards with 3td/0ints against Auburn (and even GA) should firmly keep Tua in front of Kyler.

I saw nothing from Kyler's performance that suggests he will take the trophy from Tua. (ATP, he's the only player that can overtake Tua as Heisman winner.) I think Kyler will need a "legendary" moment against Texas if he wants the Heisman. I don't necessarily means put up video game number, I mean having a "Vince Young" moment, or a "The Drive" moment, something that stands out. I do not see video games numbers standing out like they once did.

Kyler will need help to win the Heisman.

 

[AUDub]

Tonight, before I tuned out, I noticed that, every pass Kyler threw, his receiver had an escort running a yard or two behind and to the side all the way down the field...

I’m at a loss. I mean, I understand if you can’t cover them, but I’d be going full Rex Ryan and sending the house every down if that was the case. WVU was rushing 3 all night long and spying a 4th. Going to get burned anyway, at least make him earn it.

At least OU sent the dogs every now and again, resulting in 14 points off of turnovers.

 

[81usaf92]

The question is does Murray deserve it, almost solely on the basis of his stats. I'm not here to try to strip people of their trophies, I'm just pointing out that Oklahoma and the Big 12 helps skew the production in such a way that their quarterbacks look better than they actually are. So, they win Heisman trophies.

The real irony? The only one to win a championship since Stoops system was put in place, is the one that was only a runner up. Those other guys didn't win championships, so for instance they gave White the trophy and he goes out and loses the championship game, they gave Bradford the trophy and he goes out and loses the championship game. So, it isn't even like those guys are doing great on the big stage either. They're just putting up great numbers and I've already addressed that.

How many heisman trophy winners won championships the year they won it in the last 20 years?

Leinert
Mark
Cam
Derrick

I think the heisman trophy is the over glorified equivalent of the NFL MVP. Compare Brady’s and Manning’s MVPs to SB and you realize an MVP trophy is not the same as a team trophy. Point is very few heisman winners win both awards, and just as few are in position to win both.

 

[cmmiller711]

I’m at a loss. I mean, I understand if you can’t cover them, but I’d be going full Rex Ryan and sending the house every down if that was the case. WVU was rushing 3 all night long and spying a 4th. Going to get burned anyway, at least make him earn it.

At least OU sent the dogs every now and again, resulting in 14 points off of turnovers.

it's bad football and not fun to watch IMO. big plays are only fun if they're hard to come by. in big boy football an 18 yard first down pass between the 30's is something to jump out of your chair about. in OU games, you yawn after one.

 

[tidenative]

Tua has only played like 60 something percent of our games this year or 7.5 out of 11 games. He would have over 4500 yards and 40 something TDs right now if he played 100%.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

And no I do not believe Tua needs a "shinning, MVP Performance" to keep the lead and/or win the Heisman. Tua doing Tua things should be more than enough to hold off Kyler. Murray has to keep putting up "video game numbers" just to keep pace with Tua. Tua going 14-22 with 260 yards with 3td/0ints against Auburn (and even GA) should firmly keep Tua in front of Kyler.

Just to clarify my opinion by "Shining MVP Performance" I'm not saying Tua has to Pass for 400 yards and run for 200 and score 6 TD's two weeks in a row.

He still has a sizable lead. I just mean he probably needs to throw for 275-300 Yards and 3 TD's and it be obvious that we are scoring/winning mostly because of him. That he is the Catalyst.

If he does more than that all the better BUT unfortunately Murray had closed some ground since the Mississippi State Game.

I don't think Tua can afford to have a 'mediocre' performance against AU or UGA. By that I mean only 200 passing yards and 1-2 TD's.

IF that happened and Murray continues to pile up Xbox stats it will be uncomfortably close in that case.

My official opinion is that Tua WILL absolutely LIGHT AU and UGA up 2 weeks in a row and Win the Heisman.

Tua controls his destiny here and there is nothing Murray can do to pass him by without a major collapse....which again I do not foresee.


As for what Tua wants.....I'm sure he would love to win the Heisman AND the National Championship.


Why are so many Bama fans conditioned to say they want the NC 1st and only??


There's nothing wrong with winning BOTH. We did it in 2009 and 2015 and it was pretty great.

 

[CajunCrimson]

What the Heisman committee would hate..... a Murray Heisman and then OU playing Bama in the Semis.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

What the Heisman committee would hate..... a Murray Heisman and then OU playing Bama in the Semis.

I was thinking that myself last night.

They would be proven wrong in glorious fashion. Bama would not continually give Murray's WR's 25-30 yards of cushion and whiff on 3-4 tackles every completion turning 8-10 yards into 50-60.

Tua on the other hand would probably hang 600 yards passing and 8 TD's on Oklahoma. They are TERRIBLE on Defense.

 

[KrAzY3]

I think the heisman trophy is the over glorified equivalent of the NFL MVP. Compare Brady’s and Manning’s MVPs to SB and you realize an MVP trophy is not the same as a team trophy. Point is very few heisman winners win both awards, and just as few are in position to win both.

I get that it's not about winning championships (Alabama is the exception really). I get that it's not about who is the best NFL prospect.

But, the award simply shouldn't be about who puts up the biggest numbers. The analysis absolutely should go deeper than that. Remember when the Hawaii quarterbacks were putting up massive numbers? It was the system... Here's the average season for a full time Oklahoma starter since Stoops took over.

This is average at Oklahoma, I can't stress that more. 3,874 passing yards and 35 passing touchdowns. That includes the Oklahoma version of Cooper Bateman starting a full season. That includes earlier on before the numbers really got prolific. I'd think people can at least agree that if numbers should be the deciding factor, they should be truly exceptional. Truth is right now Murray is just a little above average as far as Oklahoma quarterbacks go, while Tua is breaking records...

 

[B1GTide]

I get that it's not about winning championships (Alabama is the exception really). I get that it's not about who is the best NFL prospect.

But, the award simply shouldn't be about who puts up the biggest numbers.

The Heisman wants to associate itself with stars, so they vote for flash. We also think that integrity should matter. What we think makes no difference. They will keep doing it their way because the media keeps propping that trophy up as the pinnacle of individual college football achievement. Frankly, it will continue this way until a player declines the trophy - and I don't see that happening.

I would love to see someone like Tua win the award then walk up to the stage and politely decline it.

 

[81usaf92]

I get that it's not about winning championships (Alabama is the exception really). I get that it's not about who is the best NFL prospect.

But, the award simply shouldn't be about who puts up the biggest numbers. The analysis absolutely should go deeper than that. Remember when the Hawaii quarterbacks were putting up massive numbers? It was the system... Here's the average season for a full time Oklahoma starter since Stoops took over.

This is average at Oklahoma, I can't stress that more. 3,874 passing yards and 35 passing touchdowns. That includes the Oklahoma version of Cooper Bateman starting a full season. That includes earlier on before the numbers really got prolific. I'd think people can at least agree that if numbers should be the deciding factor, they should be truly exceptional. Truth is right now Murray is just a little above average as far as Oklahoma quarterbacks go, while Tua is breaking records...

I get your point but I’m interpreting a part of your argument that the OU system QBs don’t deserve the heisman. I would agree Tua deserves it more than Kyler, but the other 3 QBs had absolutely no real competition in the heisman race.

 

[Tidewater]

Why are so many Bama fans conditioned to say they want the NC 1st and only??

I think that is a holdover opinion from the days of Coach Bryant when Bama was knocking out national champions like a machine and the only thing the Barn could claim was a Heisman (Sullivan).
If I had to choose between the two, I'd take the national championship every time and twice on Sunday.

The Barn is a pathetic waste of the state of Alabama's scarce football resources and should be shut down forever.

 

[B1GTide]

I get your point but I’m interpreting a part of your argument that the OU system QBs don’t deserve the heisman. I would agree Tua deserves it more than Kyler, but the other 3 QBs had absolutely no real competition in the heisman race.

The year Bradford won - 2008 - Tim Tebow was the best player in college football. He came in third that year behind Bradford and Colt. Big 12 stats won the day.

 

[B1GTide]

The Barn is a pathetic waste of the state of Alabama's scarce football resources and should be shut down forever.

I had to read that sentence twice. The first time I read it I thought it said that Auburn was a waste of scarce food resources. :biggrin:

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

What Kyler Murray is doing isn't average. Idk what his qb rating and ypa are now but he was on pace to break the record for both and the only reason why he might not hold those records at the end of the season is because Tua might have even better numbers.

 

[AUDub]

it's bad football and not fun to watch IMO. big plays are only fun if they're hard to come by. in big boy football an 18 yard first down pass between the 30's is something to jump out of your chair about. in OU games, you yawn after one.

So send the house. If you're going down anyway, throw a punch on the way down.

It's how I hope we play Tua today. He may burn us for 300 and 3 TDs, but he's probably going to do that anyway if he has time in the pocket. Make him do it with a hand in his face and his butt in the dirt after a few of them. Maybe we'll get lucky and force a few mistakes.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

I think that is a holdover opinion from the days of Coach Bryant when Bama was knocking out national champions like a machine and the only thing the Barn could claim was a Heisman (Sullivan).
If I had to choose between the two, I'd take the national championship every time and twice on Sunday.

The Barn is a pathetic waste of the state of Alabama's scarce football resources and should be shut down forever.

This is the part that drives me crazy. Not that you personally are saying it here and now but that everyone feels they have to say this.

It goes without saying that a National Championship is > a Heisman Trophy. It literally does not need to be declared.

But there is nothing wrong with wanting to win both..... It's like some say it to mentally/emotionally soften the blow of potentially not winning a Heisman. To pretend it's completely irrelevant and not worth winning.

It's just so weird to me. I mean I know they don't get it right every year but they have probably picked the right player most of the time..... and if they haven't there have only been a few outright head scratchers.

Anyway. Tua deserves it based on the 1st 11 games..... and I want him to win it.

 

[Go Bama]

It should have been obvious last night that Big 12 defenses are poor at best. Murray is a fine QB but IMO voters who watched that Ok/WV game last night will recognize that his numbers have been inflated by poor tackling and poor coverage. Last night’s game may have hurt Murray more than it helped him.

 

[Go Bama]

This is the part that drives me crazy. Not that you personally are saying it here and now but that everyone feels they have to say this.

It goes without saying that a National Championship is > a Heisman Trophy. It literally does not need to be declared.

But there is nothing wrong with wanting to win both..... It's like some say it to mentally/emotionally soften the blow of potentially not winning a Heisman. To pretend it's completely irrelevant and not worth winning.

It's just so weird to me. I mean I know they don't get it right every year but they have probably picked the right player most of the time..... and if they haven't there have only been a few outright head scratchers.

Anyway. Tua deserves it based on the 1st 11 games..... and I want him to win it.

The bold also does not need to be declared. But I get your point.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

It should have been obvious last night that Big 12 defenses are poor at best. Murray is a fine QB but IMO voters who watched that Ok/WV game last night will recognize that his numbers have been inflated by poor tackling and poor coverage. Last night’s game may have hurt Murray more than it helped him.

I doubt that based on the media response. Sounds like at least some people saw it as him possibly taking the lead over Tua.