Apartment Building Collapsed Near Miami

[jthomas666]

A bid was out for repair/maintenance of the building, and there was a prebid conference at the building last week.

Surfside Condo Plans Reveal Scope Of Concrete Repair Needs Before Collapse

Drawings and bid documents obtained by NBC 6 reveal the scope of the concrete restoration and other work the Champlain South condo association was soliciting for the Surfside building, even as a catastrophic structural failure brought nearly half of the building crumbing to the ground. More than...

www.nbcmiami.com

That was for the scheduled 40-year recertification, I believe--not because any specific structural issues had been discovered.

 

[TexasBama]

That was for the scheduled 40-year recertification, I believe--not because any specific structural issues had been discovered.

That was my impression

 

[TexasBama]

Actually, there was a structural engineer on CNN, who blamed it on a base column. He analyzed the video of the floors collapsing, He concluded that it occurred as a consequence of subsidence but admitted that he didn't know the ultimate cause...

I’ve seen a couple of references that there has been construction around there on reclaimed wetlands. I’d assume the subsidence is related to that rather than Groundwater pumping like we see here. Their aquifers are limestone formations rather than the sands and shales here.

 

[TexasBama]

Report predicting condo collapse reveals areas in Miami Beach at risk

The report that detailed that the Champlain Towers South building was sinking before its horrific collapse had described other areas in Miami Beach where buildings could be at risk of collapse

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[jthomas666]

I’ve seen a couple of references that there has been construction around there on reclaimed wetlands. I’d assume the subsidence is related to that rather than Groundwater pumping like we see here. Their aquifers are limestone formations rather than the sands and shales here.

Hell, that is not good.

 

[dayhiker]

Actually, there was a structural engineer on CNN, who blamed it on a base column. He analyzed the video of the floors collapsing, He concluded that it occurred as a consequence of subsidence but admitted that he didn't know the ultimate cause...

It just seems like a weird failure. Everyone seems to be jumping on this 2mm/year settlement issue. Settlement doesn't necessarily mean that there will be problems. If the whole building settles as a mass, together, then it likely has little structural impact. It's differential settlement that causes issues. This is as simple as some of the cracks you see on a masonry building for example. 1 column settling 0.5" and 15' away, another column settling 2" is going to be an issue. Those same 2 columns each settling 1", for example, won't necessarily cause a structural problem.

The above comments are just general in nature since a common assumption is that this subsidence is automatically a major factor.

 

[dayhiker]

Actually, there was a structural engineer on CNN, who blamed it on a base column. He analyzed the video of the floors collapsing, He concluded that it occurred as a consequence of subsidence but admitted that he didn't know the ultimate cause...

A concrete column just failing in a 40 year building though without being hit, etc, just doesn't really happen. Even if the stirrups rusted and you lost confinement on the vertical rebar, it would still seem unlikely to me in a lightly loaded, day to day situation. The concrete would look terrible if those stirrups had rusted out. If the column was behind gyp board, you'd probably never know about the distress either. That ties back to this 40 year program that gets talked about. Unless it involved significant destructive testing, you wouldn't see many of the things I've speculated about in this thread.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

A concrete column just failing in a 40 year building though without being hit, etc, just doesn't really happen. Even if the stirrups rusted and you lost confinement on the vertical rebar, it would still seem unlikely to me in a lightly loaded, day to day situation. The concrete would look terrible if those stirrups had rusted out. If the column was behind gyp board, you'd probably never know about the distress either. That ties back to this 40 year program that gets talked about. Unless it involved significant destructive testing, you wouldn't see many of the things I've speculated about in this thread.

I remember now that he mentioned spalling as a possible cuase. I meant to mention that above. I've had it spall before but I always thought it primarily a cosmetic defect. I never thought about its getting bad enough to be structural...

 

[dayhiker]

Engineers Found Florida Condo Had 'Major Structural Damage' Before It Collapsed

The 2018 report found major damage to the concrete structural slab below the pool deck and warned that extensive repairs would be needed soon. The mayor is considering evacuating a sister building.

www.npr.org

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Engineers Found Florida Condo Had 'Major Structural Damage' Before It Collapsed

The 2018 report found major damage to the concrete structural slab below the pool deck and warned that extensive repairs would be needed soon. The mayor is considering evacuating a sister building.

www.npr.org

Man, that's blood-chilling, especially the duplicate building. I wonder how those residents feel about now?

 

[dayhiker]

Man, that's blood-chilling, especially the duplicate building. I wonder how those residents feel about now?

The most inflammatory wording seems to be about flat work that probably had nothing to do with this. A journalist is just picking out scary words. They barely said anything about the more ominous issue of the columns.

 

[TexasBama]

Engineers Found Florida Condo Had 'Major Structural Damage' Before It Collapsed

The 2018 report found major damage to the concrete structural slab below the pool deck and warned that extensive repairs would be needed soon. The mayor is considering evacuating a sister building.

www.npr.org

From the article

https://www.townofsurfsidefl.gov/docs/default-source/default-document-library/town-clerk-documents/champlain-towers-south-public-records/8777-collins-ave---structural-field-survey-report.pdf?sfvrsn=882a1194_2

It seems like water infiltration was a significant problem. On page 8 the spalling may be notable, given that a goodly number of columns can't be seen without demo'ing sheetrock, etc.

 

[Bamaro]

From the article

https://www.townofsurfsidefl.gov/docs/default-source/default-document-library/town-clerk-documents/champlain-towers-south-public-records/8777-collins-ave---structural-field-survey-report.pdf?sfvrsn=882a1194_2

It seems like water infiltration was a significant problem. On page 8 the spalling may be notable, given that a goodly number of columns can't be seen without demo'ing sheetrock, etc.

I wonder if all of that is normal deterioration for a 40 year old building under salty air conditions or is it abnormal?

 

[dayhiker]

From the article

https://www.townofsurfsidefl.gov/docs/default-source/default-document-library/town-clerk-documents/champlain-towers-south-public-records/8777-collins-ave---structural-field-survey-report.pdf?sfvrsn=882a1194_2

It seems like water infiltration was a significant problem. On page 8 the spalling may be notable, given that a goodly number of columns can't be seen without demo'ing sheetrock, etc.

I wonder what level the pool is on? Under I, they talk about the roof and then the pool. Under K, they then talk about the columns. I guess it is placed so far back in the report because all of the other items are listing the causes of water and then that one lists the result of the water. I was expecting to see talk of the calcium carbonate leeching and there it was.

 

[TexasBama]

I wonder what level the pool is on? Under I, they talk about the roof and then the pool. Under K, they then talk about the columns. I guess it is placed so far back in the report because all of the other items are listing the causes of water and then that one lists the result of the water. I was expecting to see talk of the calcium carbonate leeching and there it was.

Every mention of the pool is along with mention of the entrance drive, so the location is not evident.

Pretty shoddy repair where they injected epoxy and didn't bother to take the ports out or smooth it.

EDIT looks like the pool is at grade

Champlain Towers South Condos | 8777 Collins Ave Surfside FL 33154

Champlain Towers South in Surfside is located at 8777 Collins Ave Surfside FL 33154

www.miamicondoinvestments.com

 

[Bamaro]

SURFSIDE, Fla. (Reuters) - Two days after the collapse of a seaside Florida building, authorities said they would help residents of a similar tower nearby evacuate as they examine it for structural flaws that might indicate a similar risk.
"I need to be able to say it's safe, and I can't right now," Surfside Mayor Charles Burkett told Reuters. “In an abundance of caution it’s probably prudent to let folks relocate for a couple of weeks while we check it.”

The evacuation is not mandatory, he said, but many residents are eager to leave.

“There are people that don't want to sleep in a building that could fall down at any moment. The odds of that happening are very low, but you know what? I don't think that people want to sleep in a building that has very low odds of falling down,” he said.

The tower that they are referring to is the north tower of the same complex and it was built at the same time.

After Florida building collapse, authorities evacuate similar tower (msn.com)

 

[TIDE-HSV]

The tower that they are referring to is the north tower of the same complex and it was built at the same time.

After Florida building collapse, authorities evacuate similar tower (msn.com)

On CNN, they said there were other buildings in the general area with the same builder/era. They didn't say how similar they were. They also said that the mayor was backing a measure to require inspections on a much more frequent interval than 40 years...

 

[TexasBama]

“A building official has said he was on the roof of the condo tower just 14 hours before it collapsed and saw 'no inordinate amount of equipment or materials' that would cause the fall, amid speculation that recent roof repairs may have been a contributing factor. “

Mom blasts DeSantis and Miami condo rescue effort for not doing enough

The woman questioned how 'nobody has emerged dead or alive' from the wreckage of the Champlain Towers South building in Surfside, Miami Beach, in days.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[dayhiker]

“A building official has said he was on the roof of the condo tower just 14 hours before it collapsed and saw 'no inordinate amount of equipment or materials' that would cause the fall, amid speculation that recent roof repairs may have been a contributing factor. “

Mom blasts DeSantis and Miami condo rescue effort for not doing enough

The woman questioned how 'nobody has emerged dead or alive' from the wreckage of the Champlain Towers South building in Surfside, Miami Beach, in days.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I’m really wondering about a column failure at a low level at this point.

 

[Bamaro]

I’m really wondering about a column failure at a low level at this point.

That seems the most likely but its still strange how it came straight down like CDI did it. You would think that columns would fail at a slightly different rate causung it to fall over more.