Weaving the Tale: How We Got Where We Are

BamaMoon

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First, sorry for the extra thread, but I know all of us have thoughts and these are mine. I guess this is my "therapy" for letting it out.

So how does Bama go from the top of the mountain in college football, last winning it all in 2020 (his 6th at Bama) to such a tragic, disappointing season we've just watched conclude??? Who would have imagined the 2020 title and dismantling of TOSU in the BSCNCG would be CNS's/Bama's last NC and the beginning of the end?

What happened???

Well, it didn't happen "overnight" is the first thing to realize.

Covid changed our world! It changed our personalities. It made us focus on family and living one day at a time. It made older people think about retirement. And I believe it probably had the same impact on CNS. I think the change in his personality probably grew out of the Covid era.

Separate and apart from Covid, another significant thing happened in the 2019/2020 recruiting cycle. Drake Maye committed to CNS/Bama in 2019. I remember then thinking he'd be our next, great QB. Meanwhile, a guy named Jalen MiIroe committed to Texas. For just a moment, imagine if these "commitments" would have stuck??? But Maye's loyalty to his home state won out and he flipped to NC in the Spring of 2020 and that's when Jalen Milroe flipped to Bama. If we would have only known then what we know now!!!

But Bama was cooking with who we already had in the QB pipeline so "who cares if a NC kid wants to stay in NC." We go on and win it all in 2020 with Mac Jones and the incredible ensemble of talent we had that year! We had climbed the college mountain and we were at the peak and we didn't know it!

The future seemed bright, right? It was bright because we had a Cali kid who seamed liked he might be the next Tua. Bryce Young takes over in 2021/22 and he's amazing, but there's couple of problems. First CNS doesn't seem like CNS as much anymore. He can't hire good coordinators anymore. He hired BOB! We remember how BOB famously told JM, who was then a backup to phenom BY, that "he wasn't a QB." Well, nothing to worry about because we knew we had 5 star Ty Simpson who had committed in 2021 to CNS and never wavered. He was a coach's kid and seemed like the future.

But something started to show early in the 2022 season when JM had to play a game or two when BY got injured. It was our first glimpse into the future and how hard/stressful it was going to be to watch!

There are all kinds of reasons we didn't win it all in 2022. Injuries to key players didn't help, but the program also seemed to be showing some instability. The discipline that had been a CNS team hallmark suddenly was absent! Penalties that stopped drives raised their ugly head. And CNS seemed different on the sidelines; hardly ever having a legendary "come apart" we'd fallen in love with over the years. Whispers about "retirement" started to leak out.

Turns out there were cracks forming in the dynasty.

Back to BOB. A bunch of us scratched our heads over his hiring. Now, looking back, it was symptomatic of a bigger issue. CNS was loosing all of the great coordinators that made the dynasty work. We traded Sark, as he left for Texas, for BOB. That was not a "good trade" as Wind in His Air told Dances with Wolves. Then the cracks started widening! When BOB left we hired Tommy Reese. Who's that?

And then we come to 2023, what would turn out to be the Goat's last ride as HC. To this day we don't know what happened in South Florida or what happened when the team got back to T-town, but when the news broke that JM was crowned the starting QB after a "team meeting" the rest is history, as they say.

Now, one other major player. Rewind to 2021. What seemed to be the harmless NCAA ruling in 2021 that allowed NIL earnings, turned out to be maybe the biggest factor in all of this! I remember hearing about BY making 1 million dollars in 2022. CNS said it himself. BY seemed to handle it like the pro he was about to become!

But what happened next, the details we still don't know, is still a mystery. We will remember it as JM and TA starting "LANK." While we still don't know the whole story it led to the announcement that rocked the college football world. At the end of the 2023 season, hours after losing in the semis to Michigan, CNS met with players and all they cared about was NIL money. A short time later, BOOM!

As we entered the CKD era, the NIL deals became as big as who would follow CNS. We still don't know and may never know how the CKD and JM QB fiasco went down. Was JM guaranteed the starting role before CKD was hired? Did CKD feel it was the only way to hold the team together? Probably the latter, but, I'll end the "tale" by simply saying it is my firm belief that there's much more to the story of why CKD, a reported "QB whisperer," never uttered TS's name when JM failed over and over and over again this season.

By all reports, JM will not be back. I believe the "sources" who have assured me he won't play QB at Bama next year. Seems a transfer is more in order than a draft pick, but a bunch of rich people you'd think are real smart make stupid decisions about such, or so it seems.

So now, just maybe, we can really start the CKD era. It's not apples to apples but it's kinda like CNS's 2007 season. IMO, we can't hold what happened this year against him just like we didn't hold 2007 against CNS. This failed 9-4 season didn't happen in a vacuum. It goes back to 2019. It includes Covid, CNS's personality change/inability to hire better OCs/DCs and the much lamented NIL debacle that has unfolded before our very eyes.

As for me and my house, we are excited about the future with what I believe was the best hire we could have made after CNS's retirement. I believe the future, without the NIL entanglements and drama of 2024 will allow Coach to show his true style and coaching acumen.
 
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81usaf92

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Apr 26, 2008
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How did we get here… for better or worse Saban

Okay you want a more detailed answer.

Quite honestly Saban started to compromise with “projects” and recruiters than get great position coaches. It was no longer the process that we saw from 2007-2017, it was more of the “work in progress”. Our player development was horrible but our recruiting was other worldly. Saban was due for a 3-4 loss season down the line because he was no longer the same guy because he no longer could be the same guy. While he went out with a SECC it was likely his last piece of hardware.

I think Deboer, while he inherited a wealth of talent, has to establish his culture in order to be successful. Our talent probably doesn’t translate to his culture and it’s beyond obvious we have a bunch of cancers on this team. I think next year we may have a similar record but we will be a better team. I think it’s okay with being frustrated but I think we should wait for Year 2 or Year 3 before we judge Deboer.
 

Bama9001

1st Team
Sep 26, 2017
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Looking to the future is rather cathartic right now.

Wonder if our S&C program is what we thought it was. We seemed to get pushed around by just about every team on our schedule. It's hard to believe that we just missed on so many players. We wilted in the 4Q often.

Hard to compare this year to CNS's first year. That team got better as the year progressed and this one kept getting worse. Which begs the question of why CKD just continued ignoring all the problems. Just seems like a year that was completely wasted.

We'll know a lot about thhe QB situation pretty soon. Are we the team that offered $6M to Ewers? Is Russell an early entrant that will be here for spring? Will we go after an 'interim' QB? Will we bring JM back?

How do we fix the OL? Honestly, JM would have been a lot better with a functional OL. We should have started to see improvement as the year went along but there was little or none.

Defensively, I'm OK with letting Womack continue to grow into a SEC coordinator. The defense did make forward prgress as the year went along.
 
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BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
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Looking to the future is rather cathartic right now.

Wonder if our S&C program is what we thought it was. We seemed to get pushed around by just about every team on our schedule. It's hard to believe that we just missed on so many players. We wilted in the 4Q often.

Hard to compare this year to CNS's first year. That team got better as the year progressed and this one kept getting worse. Which begs the question of why CKD just continued ignoring all the problems. Just seems like a year that was completely wasted.

We'll know a lot about thhe QB situation pretty soon. Are we the team that offered $6M to Ewers? Is Russell an early entrant that will be here for spring? Will we go after an 'interim' QB? Will we bring JM back?

How do we fix the OL? Honestly, JM would have been a lot better with a functional OL. We should have started to see improvement as the year went along but there was little or none.

Defensively, I'm OK with letting Womack continue to grow into a SEC coordinator. The defense did make forward prgress as the year went along.
Concerning the third paragraph, I believe your memory fails you:

The 2007 Alabama Crimson Tide football team represented the University of Alabama for the 2007 NCAA Division I FBS football season. The Tide was led by its new head coach Nick Saban, the former head coach of rival LSU. Despite a strong 6–2 start, they finished the season by losing four of their final five games. The team closed the regular season at 6–6 (4–4, SEC) and lost for a sixth-straight time to rival Auburn. The Tide defeated Colorado in the 2007 Independence Bowl 30–24 to finish the season at a 7–6. After an investigation by the NCAA, five wins by Alabama were vacated from the 2007 season, adjusting official NCAA records to show the Crimson Tide as having a 2–6 record for the season.

(From Wikipedia)
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
23,023
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282
Boone, NC
How did we get here… for better or worse Saban

Okay you want a more detailed answer.

Quite honestly Saban started to compromise with “projects” and recruiters than get great position coaches. It was no longer the process that we saw from 2007-2017, it was more of the “work in progress”. Our player development was horrible but our recruiting was other worldly. Saban was due for a 3-4 loss season down the line because he was no longer the same guy because he no longer could be the same guy. While he went out with a SECC it was likely his last piece of hardware.

I think Deboer, while he inherited a wealth of talent, has to establish his culture in order to be successful. Our talent probably doesn’t translate to his culture and it’s beyond obvious we have a bunch of cancers on this team. I think next year we may have a similar record but we will be a better team. I think it’s okay with being frustrated but I think we should wait for Year 2 or Year 3 before we judge Deboer.
The truth hurts. I love CNS. He's the GOAT. But much of this has to be laid at his feet. He wasn't perfect.
 

AlexanderFan

Hall of Fame
Jul 23, 2004
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Birmingham
Looking to the future is rather cathartic right now.

Wonder if our S&C program is what we thought it was. We seemed to get pushed around by just about every team on our schedule. It's hard to believe that we just missed on so many players. We wilted in the 4Q often.

Hard to compare this year to CNS's first year. That team got better as the year progressed and this one kept getting worse. Which begs the question of why CKD just continued ignoring all the problems. Just seems like a year that was completely wasted.

We'll know a lot about thhe QB situation pretty soon. Are we the team that offered $6M to Ewers? Is Russell an early entrant that will be here for spring? Will we go after an 'interim' QB? Will we bring JM back?

How do we fix the OL? Honestly, JM would have been a lot better with a functional OL. We should have started to see improvement as the year went along but there was little or none.

Defensively, I'm OK with letting Womack continue to grow into a SEC coordinator. The defense did make forward prgress as the year went along.
No, he wouldn’t have.
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
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No, he wouldn’t have.
When given time (lots of it) he could function in the hodge-podge offensive system we tried to build just for him. But with just a little pressure he wilted like a flower growing on a rock in July.

But what is missing is the concept that "No he couldn't have run CKD's system."
 
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Bama9001

1st Team
Sep 26, 2017
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Concerning the third paragraph, I believe your memory fails you:

The 2007 Alabama Crimson Tide football team represented the University of Alabama for the 2007 NCAA Division I FBS football season. The Tide was led by its new head coach Nick Saban, the former head coach of rival LSU. Despite a strong 6–2 start, they finished the season by losing four of their final five games. The team closed the regular season at 6–6 (4–4, SEC) and lost for a sixth-straight time to rival Auburn. The Tide defeated Colorado in the 2007 Independence Bowl 30–24 to finish the season at a 7–6. After an investigation by the NCAA, five wins by Alabama were vacated from the 2007 season, adjusting official NCAA records to show the Crimson Tide as having a 2–6 record for the season.

(From Wikipedia)
I'm wasn't talking about the record. More about seeing accountability and buy in. At the end of that year I felt great optimism about the next year. Not so much this year. I'm just baffled by what we saw.
 

lowend

All-SEC
Feb 20, 2005
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I think that it's important to look at just how much coaching turnover we have had since 2020. Also, look at how much shuffling of responsibility there was. It's no wonder that we've been so undisciplined when you don't even have staff cohesion from year to year.


20202021202220232024
OC/QBSarkisian (2nd)O'Brien (1st)O'Brien (2nd)Tommy Rees (1st)Nick Sheridan (1st)
Co-OC/WR--------JaMarcus Shepherd (1st)
RBCharles Huff (2nd)Robert Gillespie (1st)Gillespie (2nd)Gillespie (3rd)Gillespie (4th)
ST/TEJeff Banks (3rd)Drew Svboda (1st)------
TE----Joe Cox (1st)Cox (2nd)Bryan Ellis (1st)
DC/ILBGolding (2nd)Golding (3rd)Golding (4th)--Kane Wommack (1st)
DC------Kevin Steele (1st)--
Co-DC/DB--------Marice Linguist (1st)
Co-DC/Safeties--------Colin Hitschler (1st)
SafetiesCharles Kelly (2nd)Kelly (3rd)Kelly (4th)----
Safeties/ILB------Robert Bala (1st)--
CornerbacksKarl Scott (3rd)Jay Valai (1st)Tavaris Robinson (1st)Robinson (2nd)--
OLKyle Flood (2nd)Doug Marrone (1st)Eric Wolford (1st)Wolford (2nd)Chris Kapilovic (1st)
WRHolmon Wiggins (2nd)Wiggins (3rd)Wiggins (4th)Wiggins (5th)--
OLBSal Sunseri (2nd)Sunseri (3rd)----Christian Robinson (1st)
ST/OLB----Coleman Hutzler (1st)Hutzler (2nd)--
ST--------Jay Nunez (1st)
DLFreddie Roach (1st)Roach (2nd)Roach (3rd)Roach (4th)Roach (5th)
S&CDavid Ballou (1st)Ballou (2nd)Ballou (3rd)Ballou (4th)Ballou (5th)
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
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Boone, NC
I think that it's important to look at just how much coaching turnover we have had since 2020. Also, look at how much shuffling of responsibility there was. It's no wonder that we've been so undisciplined when you don't even have staff cohesion from year to year.


20202021202220232024
OC/QBSarkisian (2nd)O'Brien (1st)O'Brien (2nd)Tommy Rees (1st)Nick Sheridan (1st)
Co-OC/WR--------JaMarcus Shepherd (1st)
RBCharles Huff (2nd)Robert Gillespie (1st)Gillespie (2nd)Gillespie (3rd)Gillespie (4th)
ST/TEJeff Banks (3rd)Drew Svboda (1st)------
TE----Joe Cox (1st)Cox (2nd)Bryan Ellis (1st)
DC/ILBGolding (2nd)Golding (3rd)Golding (4th)--Kane Wommack (1st)
DC------Kevin Steele (1st)--
Co-DC/DB--------Marice Linguist (1st)
Co-DC/Safeties--------Colin Hitschler (1st)
SafetiesCharles Kelly (2nd)Kelly (3rd)Kelly (4th)----
Safeties/ILB------Robert Bala (1st)--
CornerbacksKarl Scott (3rd)Jay Valai (1st)Tavaris Robinson (1st)Robinson (2nd)--
OLKyle Flood (2nd)Doug Marrone (1st)Eric Wolford (1st)Wolford (2nd)Chris Kapilovic (1st)
WRHolmon Wiggins (2nd)Wiggins (3rd)Wiggins (4th)Wiggins (5th)--
OLBSal Sunseri (2nd)Sunseri (3rd)----Christian Robinson (1st)
ST/OLB----Coleman Hutzler (1st)Hutzler (2nd)--
ST--------Jay Nunez (1st)
DLFreddie Roach (1st)Roach (2nd)Roach (3rd)Roach (4th)Roach (5th)
S&CDavid Ballou (1st)Ballou (2nd)Ballou (3rd)Ballou (4th)Ballou (5th)

It's a big part of the tale. When CNS started getting older he said coaches were more timid about coming to work for him. He was reportedly always hard to please (part of his greatness) but also this led to lots of turnover. This is a significant cause for settling for coaches like BOB, who agreed to 2 years, and Gol*ing, who CNS allowed to stay way too long.

Couple that with coaches who parlayed a position on CNS's staff wth a HC offer (so many I lost count) and yes, it's a HUGE part of the problem.

BTW, thanks for posting that for our eyes to see!
 

lowend

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It's a big part of the tale. When CNS started getting older he said coaches were more timid about coming to work for him. He was reportedly always hard to please (part of his greatness) but also this led to lots of turnover.
I think that's what started pushing CNS out the door and NIL finished it.

I love looking at data/trends like this. We all knew about the turnover, but it doesn't really hit how crazy it all was until you see it in an organized form.
 

lowend

All-SEC
Feb 20, 2005
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Wonder if our S&C program is what we thought it was. We seemed to get pushed around by just about every team on our schedule. It's hard to believe that we just missed on so many players. We wilted in the 4Q often.
I've wondered about this too. Since Scott Cochran left we certainly have looked softer, but we also had a TON of soft tissue injuries under his tenure.

I think a lot of people forget that it was Ballou AND Dr. Matt Rhea that replaced Cochran. Rhea was the science/tech part of that duo and I think we took a big hit when he left for the Saints.
 

JDCrimson

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Feb 12, 2006
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I don't think we appreciate, as fans, or the coaches, yet, how this NIL era has undermined the basic elements of building a team. How do you hold a kid accountable in the weight room, lockerroom, or classroom now? It's really only their personal accountability that's left to motivate a player. But when you only have a handful of players who the personal accountability when you need 50 to have it it's hard to find success.

This has been the most erratic football season at least since integration for all programs especially the top ones.

We as fans have to pause and consider just how groundbreaking this me first attitude is to team sports and it will pretty soon find it's way into the workplace.

Coaches have probably done things and made promises they never thought they would make in their coaching career.
 

gtgilbert

All-American
Aug 12, 2011
4,140
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Looking to the future is rather cathartic right now.

Wonder if our S&C program is what we thought it was. We seemed to get pushed around by just about every team on our schedule. It's hard to believe that we just missed on so many players. We wilted in the 4Q often.

Hard to compare this year to CNS's first year. That team got better as the year progressed and this one kept getting worse. Which begs the question of why CKD just continued ignoring all the problems. Just seems like a year that was completely wasted.

We'll know a lot about thhe QB situation pretty soon. Are we the team that offered $6M to Ewers? Is Russell an early entrant that will be here for spring? Will we go after an 'interim' QB? Will we bring JM back?

How do we fix the OL? Honestly, JM would have been a lot better with a functional OL. We should have started to see improvement as the year went along but there was little or none.

Defensively, I'm OK with letting Womack continue to grow into a SEC coordinator. The defense did make forward prgress as the year went along.
A lot of the OL challenges are directly attributable to JM. After the 23 season he even admitted that. He held the ball longer than any QB in college football. As others have stated, he also doesn't do what he is supposed to do when pressure comes. OTs are taught to push an edge guy past the pocket and the QB steps up. JM did the opposite and often backpedalled himself directly into a sack. Also, we had to install RPOs for him, and in an RPO scheme, the OL can't fire off, cause it could be a run or pass and they have to stay pretty close to the LOS or it is a penalty.

Also - turns out JM may have had a tell. I'd wondered about this but had not done the film work to see because I just don't enjoy rewatching him play - it's too frustrating. There's a video now out there showing him alter his stance, with staggered feet on passing calls and even feet on running calls. I can't swear it's a steady indicator (the guy claims it's 85% accurate), but in the clips this guy shows, it is. That puts the OL at a HUGE disadvantage if the D knows run/pass before the snap.

 

CB4

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Aug 8, 2011
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I’m all for extending as much grace to CKD as possible for this season and possibly the next several. I understand completely he had an unenviable task of trying to hold a team and program together that was fracturing.

My big issue isn’t the fact he kowtowed to the mob. My issue that CKD stood up in front of everyone, time and time again, with same coach speak, in essence “feeding us crap and telling us it is ice cream”. One certain player being portrayed as a combination of Patrick Mahomes, Alfred Nobel and Ghandi. When the guy clearly underperforms it is “because those around him aren’t helping him enough”? Give me a break.

Yeah, I get it. It is a different time and era in CFB. CKD had to use coach speak, diplomacy, and discretion in “what he said and how he said it”. But CKD needs to learn that southern college football fans, particularly Alabama fans, didn’t just fall off the turnip truck yesterday. He needs to find, with discernment, a method that sends a message to players and fans of “where he stands” as the head coach of this program. It is possible to frame things in way that people can “read between the lines”. Coach Saban had it down to a science. You can be a “player’s coach” and still set boundaries and expectations.

Like I said in another thread - Show me this. Show me you ARE the leader. Show me you are the guy in charge. Do that, and I’ll be with you to Hell and back.

Coach DeBoer gets a pass this year certainly. And he is going to get at least three or four years here to establish his program. And that is fair. But he needs to start showing in 2025 he is deserving of that grace.
 
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BamaMoon

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A lot of the OL challenges are directly attributable to JM. After the 23 season he even admitted that. He held the ball longer than any QB in college football. As others have stated, he also doesn't do what he is supposed to do when pressure comes. OTs are taught to push an edge guy past the pocket and the QB steps up. JM did the opposite and often backpedalled himself directly into a sack. Also, we had to install RPOs for him, and in an RPO scheme, the OL can't fire off, cause it could be a run or pass and they have to stay pretty close to the LOS or it is a penalty.

Also - turns out JM may have had a tell. I'd wondered about this but had not done the film work to see because I just don't enjoy rewatching him play - it's too frustrating. There's a video now out there showing him alter his stance, with staggered feet on passing calls and even feet on running calls. I can't swear it's a steady indicator (the guy claims it's 85% accurate), but in the clips this guy shows, it is. That puts the OL at a HUGE disadvantage if the D knows run/pass before the snap.

Wow! Incredible if true.

I wouldn't be surprised either! His mechanics were so bad!
 
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B1GTide

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A lot of the OL challenges are directly attributable to JM. After the 23 season he even admitted that. He held the ball longer than any QB in college football. As others have stated, he also doesn't do what he is supposed to do when pressure comes. OTs are taught to push an edge guy past the pocket and the QB steps up. JM did the opposite and often backpedalled himself directly into a sack. Also, we had to install RPOs for him, and in an RPO scheme, the OL can't fire off, cause it could be a run or pass and they have to stay pretty close to the LOS or it is a penalty.

Also - turns out JM may have had a tell. I'd wondered about this but had not done the film work to see because I just don't enjoy rewatching him play - it's too frustrating. There's a video now out there showing him alter his stance, with staggered feet on passing calls and even feet on running calls. I can't swear it's a steady indicator (the guy claims it's 85% accurate), but in the clips this guy shows, it is. That puts the OL at a HUGE disadvantage if the D knows run/pass before the snap.

If this is true - won't install tik tok to see the video- then DeBoer should be fired for cause. Not seeing this and correcting it would get any coach fired in the NFL.
 

Con

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If this is true - won't install tik tok to see the video- then DeBoer should be fired for cause. Not seeing this and correcting it would get any coach fired in the NFL.
Milroe isn’t the only QB who does this. I saw another video a couple of weeks ago that showed a QB doing the same thing on passing plays vs running plays.
 

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