Epstein Files -- Be Careful What You Demand

[4Q Basket Case]

Summers and 'prince' Andrew have both fallen already. We shouldn't 'be careful' about anybody else, D or R, it doesn't matter!

I agree that red or blue shouldn't matter. But it clearly does.

The DOJ and Congress have known about Epstein for decades, through several administrations both red and blue. Nobody, red or blue, did anything because they knew that a lot of members of their own side would get skewered. I am confident that this was by Epstein's design.

It took the hatred that much of the public has for Donald Trump, aided by the drip....drip....drip of the Prince Andrew / Sarah Ferguson's scandals, to bring us to this point.

If Trump weren't as hated as he is, the Epstein stuff would still be buried.

I'm confident Trump was in with the Epstein crew. But so far, all we have are (1) a couple of pictures of him with Epstein, none of which include underage women, and (2) communications from others referencing Trump's relationship with Epstein. Nothing to or from Trump himself has yet surfaced.

I think the lid finally got blown off the whole Epstein affair because Democrats hate Trump so much that they decided the chance to get him was worth the downside. Otherwise, why didn't they develop such a blinding case of moral indignation and advocate release of the information back when Biden or Obama were president?

Still, you have to wonder why Trump was initially so dead-set against releasing the files. IOW, if he had nothing to hide, why not let them out? And then why did he suddenly do a 180 and advocate their release?

Admittedly pure speculation on my part, but I think there are three reasons.

First, Trump will reflexively oppose anything that Nancy Pelosi or Chuck Schumer advocate. They could come up with a simultaneous cure for all cancer, elimination of world hunger, and guaranteed world peace, and he'd still oppose it.

Second, he was concerned about collateral damage to other Republicans.

Third and most important to him, I think Trump was worried that enough Congressional Republicans were realizing their constituencies wanted the information on a dead serial sex offender and pedophile released. So Trump was afraid that his own party would go against him, backed by public demand strong enough to make a normally spineless Congress more afraid of the voters than of him.

Trump can't abide losing in any form, let alone an internal rebellion. So when he sensed that continuing to block the files was a losing proposition, he decided to reverse course and claim to be leading the parade.

I agree that none of this should have been political. But it was and had been for a long time.

 

[JDCrimson]

I agree that red or blue shouldn't matter. But it clearly does.

The DOJ and Congress have known about Epstein for decades, through several administrations both red and blue. Nobody, red or blue, did anything because they knew that a lot of members of their own side would get skewered. I am confident that this was by Epstein's design.

It took the hatred that much of the public has for Donald Trump, aided by the drip....drip....drip of the Prince Andrew / Sarah Ferguson's scandals, to bring us to this point.

If Trump weren't as hated as he is, the Epstein stuff would still be buried.

I'm confident Trump was in with the Epstein crew. But so far, all we have are (1) a couple of pictures of him with Epstein, none of which include underage women, and (2) communications from others referencing Trump's relationship with Epstein. Nothing to or from Trump himself has yet surfaced.

I think the lid finally got blown off the whole Epstein affair because Democrats hate Trump so much that they decided the chance to get him was worth the downside. Otherwise, why didn't they develop such a blinding case of moral indignation and advocate release of the information back when Biden or Obama were president?

Still, you have to wonder why Trump was initially so dead-set against releasing the files. IOW, if he had nothing to hide, why not let them out? And then why did he suddenly do a 180 and advocate their release?

Admittedly pure speculation on my part, but I think there are three reasons.

First, Trump will reflexively oppose anything that Nancy Pelosi or Chuck Schumer advocate. They could come up with a simultaneous cure for all cancer, elimination of world hunger, and guaranteed world peace, and he'd still oppose it.

Second, he was concerned about collateral damage to other Republicans.

Third and most important to him, I think Trump was worried that enough Congressional Republicans were realizing their constituencies wanted the information on a dead serial sex offender and pedophile released. So Trump was afraid that his own party would go against him, backed by public demand strong enough to make a normally spineless Congress more afraid of the voters than of him.

Trump can't abide losing in any form, let alone an internal rebellion. So when he sensed that continuing to block the files was a losing proposition, he decided to reverse course and claim to be leading the parade.

I agree that none of this should have been political. But it was and had been for a long time.

He ain't winning on the economy and he's hoping this release will be a distraction. Not releasing the files was becoming a bigger distraction.

If the Democrats purge their holdover leadership with fresh faces while the Republicans do nothing then that is yet another fire drill.

Bottom line is the alternate reality the Republicans have been selling for the last decade is cracking...

 

[CrimsonJazz]

If the Democrats purge their holdover leadership with fresh faces while the Republicans do nothing then that is yet another fire drill.

The Reps have already done their purge. By and large, people on the right have rejected the neocon Bush Republicanism that has plagued America for decades. Aside from the never-Trumpers (who have all but officially changed sides) the MAGA movement is now the Republican party and they see no need to reinvent themselves again (no matter what happens in the mid-terms.) That's not to say that the old guard isn't hanging about, but they are universally reviled (as they should be.) Nevertheless, this little right-wing civil war isn't over yet. It will be interesting to see if they get their act together in time for the next election. I guess it all depends on whether or not Dems can avoid the stupid **** that cost them the last election. Watching these 2 sides go at it does remind me of the cripple fight between Timmy and Jimmy from South Park.

 

[4Q Basket Case]

He ain't winning on the economy and he's hoping this release will be a distraction. Not releasing the files was becoming a bigger distraction.

If the Democrats purge their holdover leadership with fresh faces while the Republicans do nothing then that is yet another fire drill.

Bottom line is the alternate reality the Republicans have been selling for the last decade is cracking...

The mantra for at least the mid-term elections appears to be "affordability."

The Democrats want to accomplish that by government dictate -- price controls -- or government subsidy.

The issue plays right into Republicans' hands. But they have been strangely silent on the issue, which is a massive mistake.

The easy argument is that the highest costs of living occur in the bluest cities -- NYC, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Boston, Seattle, etc. It happens that way because there are godamighty restrictions on expansion of the housing supply and/or rent control -- which is another way to restrict the housing supply.

The winning argument for Republicans is to remove the restrictions and let the free market handle it. The transition will not be a lot of fun, but the alternative is to experience the status quo essentially forever.

So as the population expands to less-expensive locations, the governmental play is to provide or expand truly rapid transit to the city centers. Local trains with lots of stops (as most subway systems are now), with regional trains that begin 30 - 50 miles out of town and don't stop until they get to the city center.

But I'm not seeing anything like that sort of vision.

The Reps have already done their purge. By and large, people on the right have rejected the neocon Bush Republicanism that has plagued America for decades. Aside from the never-Trumpers (who have all but officially changed sides) the MAGA movement is now the Republican party and they see no need to reinvent themselves again (no matter what happens in the mid-terms.) That's not to say that the old guard isn't hanging about, but they are universally reviled (as they should be.) Nevertheless, this little right-wing civil war isn't over yet. It will be interesting to see if they get their act together in time for the next election. I guess it all depends on whether or not Dems can avoid the stupid **** that cost them the last election. Watching these 2 sides go at it does remind me of the cripple fight between Timmy and Jimmy from South Park.

I see your point, but think (hope, really) that your position might be a tad black-and-white. I hope there are shades of gray in play.

I'm a never-Trumper myself, but have never switched sides. The fact that I don’t recognize the current Republican Party doesn’t mean I’ve switched over to a Democratic Party ruled by its left wing.

I've actually been politically homeless for almost a decade now. In the meantime, I’ve voted only once, in one election.

I voted for Katie Britt over Mo Brooks. Britt made a couple of rookie mistakes, but has been building a fine reputation for working across the aisle. She got props from both Republicans and Democrats in ending the recent government shutdown. When's the last time you heard any member of either party say a member of the other was good to work with?

I'm hoping that there are a lot of people like me who think the left wing of the Democratic Party is driving them off a cliff of loony ideas -- essentially toys for everybody, as many as you want. Paid for by…well, we’re not sure. But it definitely won’t be you..

And the MAGAs are just absolutely detestable in ignoring the law.

Neither has any vision or any concept of the downstream consequences of just doing what they want by dictate.

Point of all that being, I think (hope!) that a reasonable candidate with reasonable positions could bring back disgusted members of their own party and win over enough support from disaffected members of the other party -- and I think there are far more than Fox or PBS would have you think -- to win a general election.

The problem there is the primary. Incumbents of both parties are deathly afraid of being primaried -- Republicans by MAGAs and Democrats by the loony left. I don't know that there is a short-term solution for that.

 

[Bamaro]

I would love to live in a world where the truly guilty fall. But I suspect that the released files will be ginned to protect prominent MAGAs, including El Jefe himself.

If you were there and you diddled kids, you deserve to be outed and punished. Regardless of your politics.

That should be a given and its a shame that we need to keep repeating it for the sorry maga crowd.

 

[92tide]

Point of all that being, I think (hope!) that a reasonable candidate with reasonable positions could bring back disgusted members of their own party and win over enough support from disaffected members of the other party -- and I think there are far more than Fox or PBS would have you think -- to win a general election.

The problem there is the primary. Incumbents of both parties are deathly afraid of being primaried -- Republicans by MAGAs and Democrats by the loony left. I don't know that there is a short-term solution for that.

lucky for you, marjorie taylor greene is working towards just that

 

[75thru79]

If you were there and you diddled kids, you deserve to be outed and punished. Regardless of your politics.

That should be a given and its a shame that we need to keep repeating it for the sorry maga crowd.

I literally do not know nor can a think of a single person that would disagree with that.

 

[92tide]

Massie: “[Speaker Johnson is] trying to say the rich, powerful men who flew to Epstein Island are the victims now. The only way a ‘Christian man’ can stand up there and sell a lie like that is if he’s already decided in his head that protecting them is somehow okay.”

 

[Bamaro]

I literally do not know nor can a think of a single person that would disagree with that.

Trump, his administration and maga sycophants surely act like it.
If anyone doubts this just read the comments from facebook sites like Washington Examiner and Newsmax.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

I see your point, but think (hope, really) that your position might be a tad black-and-white. I hope there are shades of gray in play.

I'm a never-Trumper myself, but have never switched sides. The fact that I don’t recognize the current Republican Party doesn’t mean I’ve switched over to a Democratic Party ruled by its left wing.

As a "never-uniparty", I do see where you're coming from. Both parties have lost me and at this point, I'm pretty sure that's permanent. In fact, I don't even know how to describe myself anymore. I'm not a radical douchebag nor am I a moderate mouse. I guess I'm still (little L) libertarian-leaning, but even the (big L) Libertarians are starting to get on my nerves. Maybe I'm just a grumpy old man.

I've actually been politically homeless for almost a decade now. In the meantime, I’ve voted only once, in one election.

I voted for Katie Britt over Mo Brooks. Britt made a couple of rookie mistakes, but has been building a fine reputation for working across the aisle. She got props from both Republicans and Democrats in ending the recent government shutdown. When's the last time you heard any member of either party say a member of the other was good to work with?

The really sad thing is that people who are capable of doing that tend to raise my suspicion rather than my optimism. (Needless to say, I have trust issues.) When Dems and Reps start agreeing on things, it never seems to turn out well for us (and it especially doesn't turn out well for anyone we've been thinking of bombing for one reason or another.)

I'm hoping that there are a lot of people like me who think the left wing of the Democratic Party is driving them off a cliff of loony ideas -- essentially toys for everybody, as many as you want. Paid for by…well, we’re not sure. But it definitely won’t be you..

And the MAGAs are just absolutely detestable in ignoring the law.

Neither has any vision or any concept of the downstream consequences of just doing what they want by dictate.

Can you blame them? What are the consequences of this behavior? None that I can think of. Sure, they may lose an election when it's their turn, but they always find their way back because American voters have the short-term memory capacity of a goldfish. It's always, "welp, I'm unhappy now. Lets see what happens if we let the other team try." And of course, what happens is the same thing that happened last time we put these clowns in office.

Point of all that being, I think (hope!) that a reasonable candidate with reasonable positions could bring back disgusted members of their own party and win over enough support from disaffected members of the other party -- and I think there are far more than Fox or PBS would have you think -- to win a general election.

The problem there is the primary. Incumbents of both parties are deathly afraid of being primaried -- Republicans by MAGAs and Democrats by the loony left. I don't know that there is a short-term solution for that.

I hate to say it, but I suspect you may be overestimating the numbers of the disgruntled, moderate voters. Sure, they are still here, but either they are keeping silent or their numbers are dwindling. It doesn't take much to create a new "radical", especially on the right. It's not because the MAGA message is so penetrating, it's because the left continues to double-down on its insanity.

I swear, if I didn't know any better, I'd think we are all part of some huge social experiment by aliens who are curious about just how self-destructive we really are as a species. And me? I'm just Benjamin the Donkey, standing there and taking all this in. I make my protest vote (third party) every 2 years, but not for the reasons I used to. (I'm just placating my wife, who still believes in voting and still trusts election outcomes. I don't argue; I'm just keeping the peace around here.)

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Almost everyone on both side of the aisle surely act like it.

FIFY

If anyone doubts this just read the comments from facebook sites like Washington Examiner and Newsmax.

AI has rendered FB into a slop of fake news. It has literally never been worse. Still, stop reading comments generated by bots and your day will go a lot smoother, I promise. Your faith in humanity might even be restored a little.

 

[Its On A Slab]

FIFY

AI has rendered FB into a slop of fake news. It has literally never been worse. Still, stop reading comments generated by bots and your day will go a lot smoother, I promise. Your faith in humanity might even be restored a little.

They've gotten a lot slicker. In 2020, you could almost tell if it was a Russian bot due to the poor grammar, and the account that was created only recently, and with stock photos. They got smarter, I guess, and just started feeding crap to domestic idiots who wear MAGA caps, and seek to p0wn the libtards.

 

[75thru79]

They've gotten a lot slicker. In 2020, you could almost tell if it was a Russian bot due to the poor grammar, and the account that was created only recently, and with stock photos. They smarter, I guess, and just started feeding crap to domestic idiots who wear MAGA caps, and seek to p0wn the libtards.

LOL on the MAGA thoughts there. I don't think the Facebook bots that continue to show me "news" stories like the one about Nick Saban terminally ill, or Nick Saban and Miss Terry with marriage problems are only hitting Republican's news feeds.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

LOL on the MAGA thoughts there. I don't think the Facebook bots that continue to show me "news" stories like the one about Nick Saban terminally ill, or Nick Saban and Miss Terry with marriage problems are only hitting Republican's news feeds.

I assure you, they aren't. I put the lid on FB some time ago, but my wife still uses it daily. It has become wearisome to have to explain to her that this crap isn't real when one of her left-wing yenta friends has again posted some laughable story about Trump.

"Yeah, but my friend shared it; it didn't just appear on my feed."

"I know, baby, but shared bullcrap is still bullcrap. I assure you that Trump is not rounding up native-born Americans who get SNAP benefits so they can be used as slaves in some secret government-run wheat field."

Facebook has proven conclusively the the left has finally caught up with the right-wing doomsday preppers. in terms of sheer bat-crap insanity.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

It would seem the Democrats don't share your view:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1990889556774903965

And no mention of Temu Obama. What's funny is that she is talking about the WRONG Epstein. We really don't appreciate these idiots enough.

Well, except for the fact that that was a different Epstein but other than that, sure.

I mean, this is a loser buying John Voigt's 1989 Chrysler LeBaron all over again.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Well, except for the fact that that was a different Epstein but other than that, sure.

Yes, I pointed that out.

I mean, this is a loser buying John Voigt's 1989 Chrysler LeBaron all over again.

Needs context; I admit you lost me here.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

I agree that red or blue shouldn't matter. But it clearly does.

Of course it does. IT ALWAYS HAS!!!

If Trump weren't as hated as he is, the Epstein stuff would still be buried.

I'm confident Trump was in with the Epstein crew. But so far, all we have are (1) a couple of pictures of him with Epstein, none of which include underage women, and (2) communications from others referencing Trump's relationship with Epstein. Nothing to or from Trump himself has yet surfaced.

My only quibble with what you're saying is this: for THREE YEARS now EVERY single time I've had people bring up "the Epstein files" out of nowhere, it has 100% of the time been a person who wears a red hat five days a week and a tinfoil one the other two days. Almost like they've been trained with POW propaganda films: "I want to know who's in the Epstein files."

Never once has it ever been anyone in daily conversation except some MAGA convinced that Bill Clinton is in there.

I think the lid finally got blown off the whole Epstein affair because Democrats hate Trump so much that they decided the chance to get him was worth the downside.

No dispute here. Indeed, a solid argument can be made starting with the Mueller appointment that they've chosen almost any means necessary to oppose Cheeto Jeezus. At the same time he's made crystal clear that he thinks he can do anything and everything and nobody is allowed to do anything about it, too.

BOTH concepts are true.

Otherwise, why didn't they develop such a blinding case of moral indignation and advocate release of the information back when Biden or Obama were president?

Epstein hadn't committed suicide when Obama was President, and the files were sealed when Biden was in charge. But I AGREE with your basic point of, "We want this guy to go down SO BAD that if it's necessary to execute 30 of our own House members, so be it."

Still, you have to wonder why Trump was initially so dead-set against releasing the files. IOW, if he had nothing to hide, why not let them out?

Because if any person on this planet knows he's been pedo, it's the pedo.

And then why did he suddenly do a 180 and advocate their release?

Admittedly pure speculation on my part, but I think there are three reasons.

..............................................

Trump can't abide losing in any form, let alone an internal rebellion. So when he sensed that continuing to block the files was a losing proposition, he decided to reverse course and claim to be leading the parade.

The abuse his parents clearly heaped upon him combined with the lack of therapy shouldn't have been a sentence imposed on the rest of the world. "Oh, I like that he gets in there and shakes things up."

Let him go hit an actual hornet's nest then and let HIM deal with the consequences.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Massie: “[Speaker Johnson is] trying to say the rich, powerful men who flew to Epstein Island are the victims now. The only way a ‘Christian man’ can stand up there and sell a lie like that is if he’s already decided in his head that protecting them is somehow okay.”

Six months ago I had no idea who Massie was. But I'll admit that for the most part he's been a consistent crusader on most things, including what the late Jim Sasser used to call "the DAFF-i-cit."

 

[Bamaro]

FIFY

AI has rendered FB into a slop of fake news. It has literally never been worse. Still, stop reading comments generated by bots and your day will go a lot smoother, I promise. Your faith in humanity might even be restored a little.

OK, then put away FB and just look for the stupid red hats

 

[CrimsonJazz]

OK, then put away FB and just look for the stupid red hats

You know what's funny? I know for a fact that most of the voters in this town swung for Trump, but I can't recall ever seeing a single red hat. I don't see them being sold except for one roadside stand selling weird flags and I don't ever see them being worn. This has literally never registered with me before until just now.