Early this morning we discussed what are the next steps for a country that has put a federal army into the streets, specifically in states that the majority of its citizens voted against the current party in power. Historically this type of repression does not come to a good end.
ICE Officer Kills Motorist In Minneapolis
- Thread starter Its On A Slab
- Start date
Yeah, unfortunately this will continue to get worse. Trump is who he is. And the anarchists opposing him are who they are. And each side has plenty of useful idiots willing to put themselves on a martyr's path for their tribe. Sigh.
The real jerks in the whole thing are "this person's demise was more important to mourn than this one's." Look, that obviously applies sometimes - does anyone really think Oswald should be mourned as was the man he killed? Or for that matter Jack Ruby, either? - but this is more telling of the person saying it than anything else.
Yes, but his own law and order party have served to enable him like parents who think their strung out on drugs teen should be encouraged in her hobby because it might make her a good pharmacist someday. "You know, she's knows more about what actual drug interactions do to the body than the scientists who put that stuff in a test tube."
There is a degree of Democratic "I will reflexively oppose anything Trump does" at work, yes - although it should also be noted the GOP has their own firebrands who do this, too.
But at what point is the step up (as Mike Pence and Liz Cheney, for example, did) to say, "No, this is wrong"?
Yep. Very little redeemable about any of them. I'm only surprised by people (tribalists) who are are surprised by this. Not really, I think the shock is feigned and selective.
As noted... officers of the law should be and are taught to try and never be in front or behind a car... He probably hasn't had relevant training and they certainly seem to be going for the personality that is a hot dawg and ain't gonna listen.
Only cultural bias would cause someone to follow the "weaponized vehicle" garbage. I am just so glad the video evidence is there and very clear. LE cannot lie again as they always do when one of theirs screw up.
This is what the training manuals state for ICE and other Federal agencies:
- A senior Department of Homeland Security official has said ICE officers are trained never to approach a vehicle from the front and instead to use safer positioning (such as approaching from the side at a 90-degree angle) to reduce risk of injury or gunfire cross-paths. They are also taught not to shoot at a moving vehicle except in very limited circumstances where there is an immediate threat of severe harm.
- Broader federal law enforcement use-of-force policies (including DHS/CBP guidance that also influences ICE practices) explicitly advise officers not to place themselves in the path of a moving vehicle or stand directly in front or behind it.
1) CBP (Customs and Border Protection) Use of Force Policy — January 2021)
This is a DHS law-enforcement component policy that reflects the approach used across DHS, including as guidance for ICE:
Section: “C. Use of Safe Tactics”- 2. “Except where otherwise required by inspections or other operations, Authorized Officers/Agents should avoid standing directly in front of or behind a subject vehicle.”
- “Officers/agents should not place themselves in the path of a moving vehicle or use their body to block a vehicle’s path.”
Both of these lines are found in Section C.2 of the CBP Use of Force Policy (4500-002A, January 2021), page 6.
So the specific section is:
➡ Use of Safe Tactics – subsection 2
and the exact quoted text comes from that subsection.
2) DHS (Department of Homeland Security) Use of Force Policy — 2023 update
The DHS policy applies to all DHS law-enforcement officers (including CBP & ICE) and sets federal standards, including on vehicles:
Section V: Moving Vehicles, Vessels, Aircraft, or Other Conveyances- A DHS law-enforcement officer may not discharge a firearm at the operator of a moving vehicle unless that deadly force is justified elsewhere in the policy (e.g., imminent threat).
- It also clarifies that firing solely to stop the vehicle or disable it (without an imminent threat) is prohibited.
3) ICE’s published policy on firearms and use of force
ICE’s own policy directive (Directive 19009.3 – Firearms and Use of Force) exists, but the online public version does not include the detailed vehicle language that appears in the DHS or CBP manuals — the vehicle guidance is summarized in other sources such as the GAO report.
So, given what is in their training, I don't see any "both sides" to what happened. Just keep on excusing bad behaviour from LE.
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Thank you. Once you get past the manufactured outrage and crocodile tears, a very disturbing trend starts to emerge. There is a shocking level of giddiness out there that pretty much tells you this was supposed to happen sooner or later. The people being encouraged to engage in behavior that goes beyond protest are just expendable assets; you don't see the reporters and politicians themselves doing this stuff, do you? Nope, just the useful idiots. I'm reasonably certain the more common reaction to this shooting was, "Finally!! What the hell took so long?" They didn't say it out loud, but a hell of a lot of people were thinking it.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: when Ashley Babbitt got smoked on Capitol Hill, my reaction was more or less, "play stupid games, win stupid prizes." The same applies here. The tribes on both sides will angrily step in and try to explain the difference between the two, but there really isn't one.
Why is someone a "jerk" - just because they want to mourn someone more than another person?
You want everyone to be in lock step with their thinking?
The comment you made has nothing to do with who the deceased is - and everything to do with those on social media who feel the need to attack someone else - because they think differently than you.
Cordially,
A real jerk
Why is someone a "jerk" - just because they want to mourn someone more than another person?
You want everyone to be in lock step with their thinking?
The comment you made has nothing to do with who the deceased is - and everything to do with those on social media who feel the need to attack someone else - because they think differently than you.
Cordially,
A real jerk
Go back and read the post to which I was responding.
In this "can't get away from the phone" era, there's even a woman out there now saying, "It feels wrong for me to be here because as a white woman, I have lots of privilege"
I can't even.......
Good grief. Are you actually positing that Ashli Babbitt's case is even remotely the same as this woman's case?
Apples and hand grenades. I don't care if you're right/left/unicorn.
Leftist woman says she “feels wrong” for paying her respects to Renee Good because she’s a “white woman who’s privileged.”
“White tears are not helpful."
I think I'm starting to get a better understanding of that state.
“White tears are not helpful."
I think I'm starting to get a better understanding of that state.
Only cultural bias would cause someone to follow the "weaponized vehicle" garbage. I am just so glad the video evidence is there and very clear. LE cannot lie again as they always do when one of theirs screw up.
This is what the training manuals state for ICE and other Federal agencies:
- A senior Department of Homeland Security official has said ICE officers are trained never to approach a vehicle from the front and instead to use safer positioning (such as approaching from the side at a 90-degree angle) to reduce risk of injury or gunfire cross-paths. They are also taught not to shoot at a moving vehicle except in very limited circumstances where there is an immediate threat of severe harm.
- Broader federal law enforcement use-of-force policies (including DHS/CBP guidance that also influences ICE practices) explicitly advise officers not to place themselves in the path of a moving vehicle or stand directly in front or behind it.
1) CBP (Customs and Border Protection) Use of Force Policy — January 2021)
This is a DHS law-enforcement component policy that reflects the approach used across DHS, including as guidance for ICE:
- 2. “Except where otherwise required by inspections or other operations, Authorized Officers/Agents should avoid standing directly in front of or behind a subject vehicle.”
- “Officers/agents should not place themselves in the path of a moving vehicle or use their body to block a vehicle’s path.”
Both of these lines are found in Section C.2 of the CBP Use of Force Policy (4500-002A, January 2021), page 6.
So the specific section is:
➡ Use of Safe Tactics – subsection 2
and the exact quoted text comes from that subsection.
2) DHS (Department of Homeland Security) Use of Force Policy — 2023 update
The DHS policy applies to all DHS law-enforcement officers (including CBP & ICE) and sets federal standards, including on vehicles:
While the DHS policy doesn’t use the exact same wording about “standing in front,” it does formally restrict shooting at moving vehicles and frames that restriction in written sections of the policy. The relevant language appears under DHS Use of Force Policy Section V (Moving Vehicles, etc.).
- A DHS law-enforcement officer may not discharge a firearm at the operator of a moving vehicle unless that deadly force is justified elsewhere in the policy (e.g., imminent threat).
- It also clarifies that firing solely to stop the vehicle or disable it (without an imminent threat) is prohibited.
3) ICE’s published policy on firearms and use of force
ICE’s own policy directive (Directive 19009.3 – Firearms and Use of Force) exists, but the online public version does not include the detailed vehicle language that appears in the DHS or CBP manuals — the vehicle guidance is summarized in other sources such as the GAO report.
So, given what is in their training, I don't see any "both sides" to what happened. Just keep on excusing bad behaviour from LE.
Of course, this murdering thug didn't follow procedures. This idiot ICE agent was too busy walking around the car recording a video with his phone, screw policies. He is still holding his phone when he draws his weapon and commits the crime. He was distracted and ended up killing someone because of it. If you are distracted by your phone and kill someone, will you be able to drive away from the scene of the crime? Nope, and neither should this thug.
If he is too traumatized because of a previous incident with a car, then maybe he shouldn't be on the streets anymore. I'm tired of trigger-happy LEOs in this country. All these policies and procedures mean nothing when they are rarely held accountable for breaking them.
It's my take that ICE has been so busy hiring new officers that they haven't really taken to the time to train them properly. And I can imagine that they are taking a fair number of Meal Team Six fighters. Trigger happy and stupid. It's not an excuse. I hope he's tried in Minnesota and not in a Federal court with a Trump judge.
This wouldn't surprise me. Years ago, when I first moved to the DC area, there were a series of articles in the Washington Post about a disturbing trend among the DC local police and the new, relaxed hiring practices that started a few years earlier. It seems police-related killings were on the rise. Curiously, a lot of the victims had bullet wounds in the back of the head. It seems many of the new cops were just badged-thugs eliminating their competition. I think we can do better.
If it ends up in federal court, then why bother? If, by chance, he were found guilty, Trump would have a pardon ready to go. If there is any chance for him to pay for his crime, it must be at the state level to avoid Trump meddling.
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