Milroe v Marino - The Football Gods are Unkind

[saturdaysarebet]

What's so funny is...folks need to look at who the OTHER QUARTERBACKS were that beat them out.

Marino's team got back to the AFC championship in 1985, and they SHOULD have made it a rematch with the Bears. They were the better team, they were the #2 seed in the playoffs, and they got the Patriots IN MIAMI, where New England forced SIX turnovers that gave them 24 points in a game they won by 17. So okay, Champaign Tony Eason made a Super Bowl and got pulled in the first half. Dan did throw two picks, but the Dolphins fumbled on the first play of both halves (and lost them) and two other times, despite the fact the Patriots had lost 18 straight games in Miami.

But then look at which quarterbacks were in the Super Bowl for the AFC:
1986 - Elway
1987 - Elway
1989 - Elway
1990 - Kelly
1991 - Kelly
1992 - Kelly (beat Marino in Miami head-to-head in AFC championship)
1993 - Kelly

In Dan Marino's PRIME YEARS (he was ages 25-32 above), he lost out Super Bowl opportunities 7 times in 8 years to two bona fide Hall of Famers. By 1994, Dan was 33 years old, coming off an injury that cost him 11 games the previous year, and his record from 1994-99 as a starter was 50-36 (.581) after he'd played at a .642 clip prior to the injury. The only exception was losing out to Boomer Esiason in 1988, and Dan led all of the NFL in attempts, completions, and yardage on the best passing offense - by far - in football, but was saddled with a 6-10 team that had the second worst defense in the AFC.

Those guys were great QBs, but Marino was better than either one. But put a great QB with a minimally competent defense, and the good QB is often enough.

Marino was the ultimate choker in big games. Check out his performances in the post-season when Miami lost due to his poor play:

Marino choked in big games: stats don't lie:
'83 playoff team vs Seattle 2 Ints 77.6 QBR
'84 SB vs SF 2 ints 66.9 QBR
'85 vs NE at home 2 ints 54.9 QBR
'90 vs Buffalo 2 ints 72.1 QBR
'92 vs Buffalo at home 2 ints 56.5 QBR

The only playoff loss he played well
'94 vs SD 0 ints 109.8 QBR

1995 vs Buffalo 3 ints 63.4 QBR
1997 vs NE 2 ints 29.3 QBR!
1998 vs Denv 2 ints 65.5 QBR
1999 vs Jax 2 ints 34.6 QBR!

Five times in his career Marino had a top 10 defense in points allowed. Three times he had a top five defense. Twice he had a defense that led the league in fewest points allowed. How'd that work out for two-turnover Danny?

Marino played for not just one but TWO hall of fame coaches that BOTH WON TWO SUPER BOWLS without Dan Marino. They knew how to win Super Bowls. Marino choked in big games.
He even choked at Pitt when he had what Bobby Bowden called the greatest college football team he ever saw. So it wasn't he had no defense, he had no running backs, he had no OL. He had it all at times and still choked.

Three interceptions against Florida State in 1980 killed Pitt's national championship hopes. Four interceptions by Marino against Penn State in 1981 killed Pitt's national championship hopes.

No running game? There are plenty of examples of teams that won Super Bowls with lesser running games than what Marino had in Miami.

The greats are supposed to elevate lesser talent.

Brady won 4 rings handing off to Antwain Smith, Sony Michel and Leonard Fournette.
Manning won his with Joseph Addai and CJ Anderson as his backs.
Mahomes has had Damian Williams and Isaiah Pacheco.
Rodgers had some guy named Brandon Jackson.

The Seven Myths about Dan Marino

Dan Marino is widely praised as one of the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history, and arguably holds the distinction of being the greatest quarterback to never win a Super Bowl. There are numerous t…

johnbaranowski.wordpress.com

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[davefrat]

Marino was the ultimate choker in big games. Check out his performances in the post-season when Miami lost due to his poor play:

Marino choked in big games: stats don't lie:
'83 playoff team vs Seattle 2 Ints 77.6 QBR
'84 SB vs SF 2 ints 66.9 QBR
'85 vs NE at home 2 ints 54.9 QBR
'90 vs Buffalo 2 ints 72.1 QBR
'92 vs Buffalo at home 2 ints 56.5 QBR

The only playoff loss he played well
'94 vs SD 0 ints 109.8 QBR

1995 vs Buffalo 3 ints 63.4 QBR
1997 vs NE 2 ints 29.3 QBR!
1998 vs Denv 2 ints 65.5 QBR
1999 vs Jax 2 ints 34.6 QBR!

Five times in his career Marino had a top 10 defense in points allowed. Three times he had a top five defense. Twice he had a defense that led the league in fewest points allowed. How'd that work out for two-turnover Danny?

Marino played for not just one but TWO hall of fame coaches that BOTH WON TWO SUPER BOWLS without Dan Marino. They knew how to win Super Bowls. Marino choked in big games.
He even choked at Pitt when he had what Bobby Bowden called the greatest college football team he ever saw. So it wasn't he had no defense, he had no running backs, he had no OL. He had it all at times and still choked.

Three interceptions against Florida State in 1980 killed Pitt's national championship hopes. Four interceptions by Marino against Penn State in 1981 killed Pitt's national championship hopes.

No running game? There are plenty of examples of teams that won Super Bowls with lesser running games than what Marino had in Miami.

The greats are supposed to elevate lesser talent.

Brady won 4 rings handing off to Antwain Smith, Sony Michel and Leonard Fournette.
Manning won his with Joseph Addai and CJ Anderson as his backs.
Mahomes has had Damian Williams and Isaiah Pacheco.
Rodgers had some guy named Brandon Jackson.

The Seven Myths about Dan Marino

Dan Marino is widely praised as one of the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history, and arguably holds the distinction of being the greatest quarterback to never win a Super Bowl. There are numerous t…

johnbaranowski.wordpress.com

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Is your point that Marino shouldn’t be in the HOF?

 

[saturdaysarebet]

Is your point that Marino shouldn’t be in the HOF?

No, great regular season quarterback. Great pure passer but he choked in the biggest games at every level and like he was made of teflon, no one ever blamed two-turnover Danny for the Dolphins post-season failures year after year after year.

 

[davefrat]

No, great regular season quarterback. Great pure passer but he choked in the biggest games at every level and like he was made of teflon, no one ever blamed two-turnover Danny for the Dolphins post-season failures year after year after year.

If memory serves, Jimmy Johnson contemplated trading Marino for something like what he did with Herschel Walker in Dallas but was basically told he’d be run out of town if he did.

Could be just a myth.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

If memory serves, Jimmy Johnson contemplated trading Marino for something like what he did with Herschel Walker in Dallas but was basically told he’d be run out of town if he did.

Could be just a myth.

There were also "rumblings"/rumors that Jimmy Johnson tried to transition to running the ball more, which the Marino apologists always said if he'd had, he'd won a superbowl. But he "always had to carry the team" with his arm. But the rumor was Marino and Johnson butted heads on moving to more of running the ball because Marino wanted to pass the ball. He didn't want to give up his passing attempts.

Johnson knew what it took to win a superbowl because he constructed a team that won two of them. Marino apparently didn't want to go along with it and that's where the "Johnson wanted to trade Marino" rumor came from.

 

[Isaiah 63:1]

Here are Dak's records and the Cowboys' defensive rankings:

2016 - 5th (13-3)
2017 - 13th (9-7)
2018 - 6th (10-6) - Dak made the Pro Bowl
2019 - 11th (8-8)
2020 - Dak missed 11 games.......28th (2-3)
2021 - 7th (11-5)
2022 - 6th (12-5); Dak was 8-4 and missed 5 games where Dallas went 4-1)
2023 - 5th (12-5) - Dak's best year, led the league in TD passes
2024 - 31st (7-10) - Dak missed 1/2 the season and went 3-5
2025 - LAST (7-9-1)

If you notice, there is an almost direct correlation with Dak's record being bad and the Cowboys not having a defense worth a damn. Three times he's had defenses that ranked 28th or worst and in those years his record is 12-17-1....If his team had an elite defense (say 2015 Denver), Dak is good enough to win a Super Bowl.

It's almost as if defense and winning your battles on the lines of scrimmage are important to winning football games.

I'll never understand teams' drafting star QBs without the foundational elements in place to let them succeed. Mac Jones to the Pats is one good example among many...

 

[davefrat]

There were also "rumblings"/rumors that Jimmy Johnson tried to transition to running the ball more, which the Marino apologists always said if he'd had, he'd won a superbowl. But he "always had to carry the team" with his arm. But the rumor was Marino and Johnson butted heads on moving to more of running the ball because Marino wanted to pass the ball. He didn't want to give up his passing attempts.

Johnson knew what it took to win a superbowl because he constructed a team that won two of them. Marino apparently didn't want to go along with it and that's where the "Johnson wanted to trade Marino" rumor came from.

Makes sense.

I remember that on the old Techmo Bowl game each team had 4 offensive plays and I think Miami was the only one with only 1 running play and 3 pass plays.

 

[Padreruf]

It's almost as if defense and winning your battles on the lines of scrimmage are important to winning football games.

I'll never understand teams' drafting star QBs without the foundational elements in place to let them succeed. Mac Jones to the Pats is one good example among many...

I don't know about HS, but DAK has never won anything in college or in the pros. The Cowboys gave away the farm to a QB who has not won a thing...let that soak in. Jerry J. is not as smart as he thinks he is.

 

[saturdaysarebet]

There were also "rumblings"/rumors that Jimmy Johnson tried to transition to running the ball more, which the Marino apologists always said if he'd had, he'd won a superbowl. But he "always had to carry the team" with his arm. But the rumor was Marino and Johnson butted heads on moving to more of running the ball because Marino wanted to pass the ball. He didn't want to give up his passing attempts.

Johnson knew what it took to win a superbowl because he constructed a team that won two of them. Marino apparently didn't want to go along with it and that's where the "Johnson wanted to trade Marino" rumor came from.

They did butt heads as Johnson wasn't happy with Marino being so turnover prone.

 

[81usaf92]

Marino was the ultimate choker in big games. Check out his performances in the post-season when Miami lost due to his poor play:

Marino choked in big games: stats don't lie:
'83 playoff team vs Seattle 2 Ints 77.6 QBR
'84 SB vs SF 2 ints 66.9 QBR
'85 vs NE at home 2 ints 54.9 QBR
'90 vs Buffalo 2 ints 72.1 QBR
'92 vs Buffalo at home 2 ints 56.5 QBR

The only playoff loss he played well
'94 vs SD 0 ints 109.8 QBR

1995 vs Buffalo 3 ints 63.4 QBR
1997 vs NE 2 ints 29.3 QBR!
1998 vs Denv 2 ints 65.5 QBR
1999 vs Jax 2 ints 34.6 QBR!

Five times in his career Marino had a top 10 defense in points allowed. Three times he had a top five defense. Twice he had a defense that led the league in fewest points allowed. How'd that work out for two-turnover Danny?

Marino played for not just one but TWO hall of fame coaches that BOTH WON TWO SUPER BOWLS without Dan Marino. They knew how to win Super Bowls. Marino choked in big games.
He even choked at Pitt when he had what Bobby Bowden called the greatest college football team he ever saw. So it wasn't he had no defense, he had no running backs, he had no OL. He had it all at times and still choked.

Three interceptions against Florida State in 1980 killed Pitt's national championship hopes. Four interceptions by Marino against Penn State in 1981 killed Pitt's national championship hopes.

No running game? There are plenty of examples of teams that won Super Bowls with lesser running games than what Marino had in Miami.

The greats are supposed to elevate lesser talent.

Brady won 4 rings handing off to Antwain Smith, Sony Michel and Leonard Fournette.
Manning won his with Joseph Addai and CJ Anderson as his backs.
Mahomes has had Damian Williams and Isaiah Pacheco.
Rodgers had some guy named Brandon Jackson.

The Seven Myths about Dan Marino

Dan Marino is widely praised as one of the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history, and arguably holds the distinction of being the greatest quarterback to never win a Super Bowl. There are numerous t…

johnbaranowski.wordpress.com

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Marino is not a worse playoff quarterback than Farve or Peyton.

Also comparing anyone to Brady is a dead argument from the get go because Brady is an anomaly. Only Rodgers can really say that he played with less talent and even his Super Bowl run makes you wonder if some of this stuff is scripted or pushed in a specific direction at times. So we possibly could have the same argument for Rodgers that we have for Marino if things didn’t go a specific way in 2010.

Marino is one of the greatest of all time. But he was severely limited by his roster when other teams in his own conference were stacked. The Bills and Broncos were some of the best rosters ever assembled not to win a superbowl in the 80’s and it was because they kept running into deeper teams from the NFC. Does anyone think Phil Sims or Doug Williams were better than Elway because they absolutely destroyed them in a SB, or do people realize that the opposing defense plays a huge role in the outcome as well.

No one except Skip Bayless ever really brings up Peyton Manning’s overall SB QBR… Why? Because everyone pretty much realizes one game was in a monsoon, one game was against a pretty good defense, one game was against a defense in the GOAT discussion, and one was against an elite defense and a season that everyone knew Peyton was carried by his own defense. I bring this up to say that we are talking about a guy that had far more talent around him than Marino ever did.

Additionally if you want to bring up playoff chokers as a test for greatness denial then you unfortunately have to bring guys like Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, and Nick Foles into the “HOF” worthy discussion because of their playoff performances too. Thats why I don’t hold playoff chokes against quarterbacks unless the context forces me. I think there is enough evidence to prove that much of Marino’s issues were largely due to the lack of resources around him.

 

[saturdaysarebet]

Marino is not a worse playoff quarterback than Farve or Peyton.

Also comparing anyone to Brady is a dead argument from the get go because Brady is an anomaly. Only Rodgers can really say that he played with less talent and even his Super Bowl run makes you wonder if some of this stuff is scripted or pushed in a specific direction at times. So we possibly could have the same argument for Rodgers that we have for Marino if things didn’t go a specific way in 2010.

Marino is one of the greatest of all time. But he was severely limited by his roster when other teams in his own conference were stacked. The Bills and Broncos were some of the best rosters ever assembled not to win a superbowl in the 80’s and it was because they kept running into deeper teams from the NFC. Does anyone think Phil Sims or Doug Williams were better than Elway because they absolutely destroyed them in a SB, or do people realize that the opposing defense plays a huge role in the outcome as well.

No one except Skip Bayless ever really brings up Peyton Manning’s overall SB QBR… Why? Because everyone pretty much realizes one game was in a monsoon, one game was against a pretty good defense, one game was against a defense in the GOAT discussion, and one was against an elite defense and a season that everyone knew Peyton was carried by his own defense. I bring this up to say that we are talking about a guy that had far more talent around him than Marino ever did.

Additionally if you want to bring up playoff chokers as a test for greatness denial then you unfortunately have to bring guys like Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, and Nick Foles into the “HOF” worthy discussion because of their playoff performances too. Thats why I don’t hold playoff chokes against quarterbacks unless the context forces me. I think there is enough evidence to prove that much of Marino’s issues were largely due to the lack of resources around him.

Why didn't Marino win at Pitt then when he had a future NFL team around him? NO ONE ever attempts to even answer that one. Why not???

Other teams and QBs have won SBs with lesser running games than Marino had. He had not one but TWO HOF coaches that won two Super Bowls without Marino. Marino was drafted by Miami right after they were in the Super Bowl. Do you think David Woodley led them to the Super Bowl or was it their Killer B's defense? All myths to protect two-turnover Danny.

Marino's post-season performances vs his regular season stats in playoff years has a precipitice falloff. Can you say CHOKER???? I know you can.

Look which QBs raised their regular season game to the post-season the most! None other than Alabama and Green Bay's Bart Starr, followed by Terry Bradshaw, Kurt Warner and yes, Eli Manning.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

When Eli Manning retired, he was 7th all-time in completions, yards passing and touchdown passes combine that with TWO Super Bowl MVPs, the only player to match or better that???? TOM BRADY. That's it. That's the list.

So?

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Not even good arguments.

Marino was the ultimate choker in big games. Check out his performances in the post-season when Miami lost due to his poor play:

Marino choked in big games: stats don't lie:
'83 playoff team vs Seattle 2 Ints 77.6 QBR

Entirely Marino's fault that David Overstreet fumbled the ball away and then Fulton Walker fumbled the ensuing kickoff after Seattle took the lead with 75 seconds left. Entirely Marino's fault that Uwe von Schamaan missed the game's first PAT, which meant that even had Marino done a drive, he couldn't have done more than tie.

And entirely Marino's faut that the #1 defense in the NFL let a team that averaged 25.1 ppg score 27 points.

'84 SB vs SF 2 ints 66.9 QBR

Entirely Marino's fault that the Dolphins defense gave up 38 points, 28 in the first half.
Entirely Marino's fault that Miami ran the ball 9 times for 25 yards.

And hardly choking as Miami was a 3-point underdog.

'85 vs NE at home 2 ints 54.9 QBR

Marino did play poorly - as did the entire Dolphins team.
This is the one obvious "what the hell happened" but every QB has those games.

'90 vs Buffalo 2 ints 72.1 QBR

You cut out the part where Marino threw three TDs in that game.
And you also cut out the part where his defense gave up FORTY-FOUR points.

All of this including Buffalo being a 7-point favorite is entirely Marino's fault.

'92 vs Buffalo at home 2 ints 56.5 QBR

Buffalo was favored (2.5).

Entirely Marino's fault that the Dolphin defense couldn't stop either Thurman Thomas or Kenneth Davis.

The only playoff loss he played well
'94 vs SD 0 ints 109.8 QBR

Entirely his fault Stoyanovich missed the game-winning kick, too.

1995 vs Buffalo 3 ints 63.4 QBR

Buffalo was favored (3.5).

Entirely Marino's fault that Miami's defense allowed 341 rushing yards.

I'm trying to figure out how Marino losing all these games where his team was the underdog is some sort of proof he was some bad choker.

1997 vs NE 2 ints 29.3 QBR!

New England was a 5-point favorite.
Marino at this point is also 36 years old.
And New England beat Miami twice during the regular season that year.

1998 vs Denv 2 ints 65.5 QBR

Against one of the greatest teams of all-time (Miami was a 13.5-point road dog).......

It is entirely Dan Marino's fault that the Miami defense gave up 38 points.
Also entirely his fault his backs had 13 carries for 14 yards.

1999 vs Jax 2 ints 34.6 QBR!

Anyone who even remembers this game is laughing their butts off that you would even cite this as evidence of anything against 38-year-old Dan Marino.

Miami's defense gave up 62 points - 55 of those in the first 2.5 quarters - and it would have been worse if Jacksonville hadn't just said, "To hell with it, let's run and prepare for next week."

Remember when Marino allowed Fred Taylor to race 90 yards on a run from scrimmage for that TD in the first quarter???

Marino played terrible.
So did every single player on the Dolphins.

Five times in his career Marino had a top 10 defense in points allowed. Three times he had a top five defense. Twice he had a defense that led the league in fewest points allowed.

1983 - #1 - they gave up 15.2 ppg and then surrendered 27 to Seattle.
1984 - #7 - they got blistered for 28 points in a half and 38 total
1990 - #4 - they to smoked for 44 points in a playoff game
1995 - #10 - they got mauled for 341 rushing yards and 37 points
1998 - #1 - they got drilled for 38 points in a playoff game


AVG NUMBER OF POINTS SURRENDERED BY MIAMI TOP TEN DEFENSES IN PLAYOFF GAMES WHEN DAN MARINO WAS THE QB: 36.8

How'd that work out for two-turnover Danny?

Well, how many years did Marino's offenses average 37 ppg? I mean, the very games you cite just made the argument he didn't have jack squat on defense.

Marino played for not just one but TWO hall of fame coaches that BOTH WON TWO SUPER BOWLS without Dan Marino. They knew how to win Super Bowls.

Let the record show that Don Shula was twice as good at LOSING them as he was at WINNING them.
In fact, Donnie holds the record for most Super Bowls lost.

Marino choked in big games.

No, he choked in one game you cite, and you didn't cite other big games like when he won in the playoffs to advance or when his contributions won a division or a higher playoff seed.

Marino threw ONE post-season Pick Six.

He even choked at Pitt when he had what Bobby Bowden called the greatest college football team he ever saw. So it wasn't he had no defense, he had no running backs, he had no OL. He had it all at times and still choked.

So what happened?

Are you the prototype for Ray Finkle? Because that's about the only reason I can think of for this stream-of-consciousness presentation of flat out bad arguments. This isn't analysis, this is something personal.

Three interceptions against Florida State in 1980 killed Pitt's national championship hopes.

So did the other four fumbles by Pitt players.
So did the 36 points given up by the Pitt defense.

Four interceptions by Marino against Penn State in 1981 killed Pitt's national championship hopes.

Yes, and it was totally Marino's fault that Pitt's defense gave up 48 points.
Entirely his fault that Todd Blackledge completed 12 passes for TWO HUNDRED SIXTY-TWO YARDS!!!

Marino bears some of the blame, yes, because he threw 2 picks while up 14-0 early. The criticism is slightly more justified here than in most of the non-evidence you cite above. Having said that, when a team only catches 12 passes and they get 262 yards on those passes, the opposing quarterback doesn't tackle receivers in the secondary.

No running game? There are plenty of examples of teams that won Super Bowls with lesser running games than what Marino had in Miami.

Yes, and having read that stupid article, I can completely understand why you cut out the evidence. Citing the 1960s Green Bay Packers - at a time prior to the 1978 passing rules - is so dumb nobody attempting fair analysis would do it, but that didn't stop the guy you cited from making a bad argument.

The greats are supposed to elevate lesser talent.

In Dan Marino's prime, how many other players on his team are in the Hall of Fame?
One - center Dwight Stephenson

So....Marino took Dwight Stephenson and a bunch of nobodies to a Super Bowl.

He didn't have a single wide receiver who is even a CANDIDATE much less a HOFer - and yet he led the league in completions six times and yardage five. His best receiver (Mark Clayton) is ranked the 369th best receiver in NFL history by PFF.

Brady won 4 rings handing off to Antwain Smith, Sony Michel and Leonard Fournette.

Brady didn't play in the 1980s, either.

Manning won his with Joseph Addai and CJ Anderson as his backs.
Mahomes has had Damian Williams and Isaiah Pacheco.
Rodgers had some guy named Brandon Jackson.

So your evidence is......a bunch of MORE RECENT guys when folks RUN THE BALL LESS........

Good Lord.........

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Manning, when he retired, was SEVENTH all-time in completions, touchdown passes and passing yards with TWO SB MVPs. The only other QB to match or better that? Tom Brady. That's it. That's the list.

If you actually think Eli Manning is in the same solar system as Tom Brady as an NFL quarterback because of your carefully cherry-picked data, there is no semblance of reasonable discussion that will ever ensue.

"Oh, but he beat him twithe in the the Thuper Bowl!"

Yes, all by himself.


There is literally no living human being that can even attempt to make a HOF case for Eli without saying the words "but two Super Bowls."

He was 7th in passing yards when he retired - yes, because he played in the flag football era.

That's NOT how you evaluate players.

You compare them WITHIN THEIR ERA against their peers.
Then you compare then against players of the past OFFSET BY AVERAGES.

If Eli Manning averaged 300 ypg but the league average was 400, that's not a point in his favor, it's actually a point AGAINST him because he's BELOW average.

If Fran Tarkenton averaged 250 but the league average was 125, that's a HUGE point in his favor.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

If memory serves, Jimmy Johnson contemplated trading Marino for something like what he did with Herschel Walker in Dallas but was basically told he’d be run out of town if he did.

Could be just a myth.

I don't know about the truth of it, but the league was wise to what he'd pulled to probably not engage him a second time.

Plus, Marino was on the downhill slope of his career when Jimmy arrived.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

There were also "rumblings"/rumors that Jimmy Johnson tried to transition to running the ball more, which the Marino apologists always said if he'd had, he'd won a superbowl. But he "always had to carry the team" with his arm. But the rumor was Marino and Johnson butted heads on moving to more of running the ball because Marino wanted to pass the ball. He didn't want to give up his passing attempts.

Johnson knew what it took to win a superbowl because he constructed a team that won two of them. Marino apparently didn't want to go along with it and that's where the "Johnson wanted to trade Marino" rumor came from.

I'm not sure I buy this.

Jimmy drafted something like 37 players across the drafts and not one big name in the backfield.

Now - he DID pick RBs with his top pick in 1998 (John Avery) and 1999 (JJ Johnson), but good Lord.

Yes, he constructed a two-time Super Bowl winner.
BEFORE the salary cap prevented the one way he proved of capable of winning.

I'm not saying he was a bad coach, but I'll admit getting tired of hearing how Jimmy was the greatest NFL coach since Vince Lombardi, too.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

It's almost as if defense and winning your battles on the lines of scrimmage are important to winning football games.

I'll never understand teams' drafting star QBs without the foundational elements in place to let them succeed. Mac Jones to the Pats is one good example among many...

The important thing folks aren't getting is this:

A championship football team requires more than just one superstar player, even at QB.

An NFL team CAN win a Super Bowl without an overly good QB. But when the Baltimore Ravens did it in 2000, they also had one of the greatest defenses ever assembled, too. Same with Denver in 2015. Folks in later years will look and see "oh, Peyton Manning," but he didn't do all that much that year.

Generally speaking, however, championship teams do A LOT OF THINGS well not just play QB.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

I don't know about HS, but DAK has never won anything in college or in the pros. The Cowboys gave away the farm to a QB who has not won a thing...let that soak in. Jerry J. is not as smart as he thinks he is.

I think this is a tiny bit unfair, though.

Dak Prescott played at MISSISSIPPI STATE, hardly a bastion of football accomplishment. And while he couldn't seal the deal, he DID raise them to the first #1 ranking in school history. That's not something to be dismissed.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Why didn't Marino win at Pitt then when he had a future NFL team around him? NO ONE ever attempts to even answer that one. Why not???

Actually, I answered that in the other post. But I'll say it again: blaming Dan Marino for Todd Blackledge slicing up a secondary for 262 yards on only 12 completions is some world class blame shifting.

Also - you better go back and look at who Pitt actually played that was worth a damn those years. Marino's starting career began against WVA in 1979. In his first three years there (he was injured his last year and it cratered his draft status), Pitt only played 7 ranked teams. They were running up points and wins against mostly garbage.

Other teams and QBs have won SBs with lesser running games than Marino had. He had not one but TWO HOF coaches that won two Super Bowls without Marino. Marino was drafted by Miami right after they were in the Super Bowl.

You've cut and paste these poor arguments from the poor article.

And again - you keep cutting out the teams you're talking about with running games for a rather obvious reason: because even you know it doesn't prove the point you want to make.

Do you think David Woodley led them to the Super Bowl or was it their Killer B's defense?

I'm gonna say it was both their defense and their #3 overall running game.

All myths to protect two-turnover Danny.

More plagiarism on your part.

Marino's post-season performances vs his regular season stats in playoff years has a precipitice falloff. Can you say CHOKER???? I know you can.

Can you say, "I'm gonna keep pretending Marino is to blame for the Dolphins giving up an average of nearly 37 ppg in the playoffs when they had a top ten defense?"

Look which QBs raised their regular season game to the post-season the most! None other than Alabama and Green Bay's Bart Starr, followed by Terry Bradshaw, Kurt Warner and yes, Eli Manning.

Amazingly, Marino has just as many post-season wins as Eli, although you didn't mention that.

Sure he has more losses, but his defense didn't hold the 2007 Patriots to 14 points in the Super Bowl, either. In fact, if Marino's "Top 10 defenses" had done that in those games you're blaming on him, he'd have been undefeated in those, too.

 

[davefrat]

Hard to tell if Bama fans hate Marino or Milroe more from a lot of these posts.