Yes...but when push came to shove he could not seal the deal. Ole Miss blasted them 38-27 in the Egg Bowl. He was tough but always fell a little short.
Milroe v Marino - The Football Gods are Unkind
- Thread starter The Ols
- Start date
One is an NFL Hall of Famer and the other was one of the biggest problem children we ever had.
I liked Dan Marino, even when he was at Pittsburgh, but none of us had any idea that he would revolutionized the 1980s passing game the way he did.
Oh so don't mention Marino had FOUR interceptions against Penn State. Like that didn't matter. Nice trying to cherry pick your weak argument. He led that team to 14 points. The #1 team in the country AT HOME all they could muster was 14 points because of Marino's FOUR COUNT THEM ONE TWO THREE FOUR INTERCEPTIONS.Actually, I answered that in the other post. But I'll say it again: blaming Dan Marino for Todd Blackledge slicing up a secondary for 262 yards on only 12 completions is some world class blame shifting.
Also - you better go back and look at who Pitt actually played that was worth a damn those years. Marino's starting career began against WVA in 1979. In his first three years there (he was injured his last year and it cratered his draft status), Pitt only played 7 ranked teams. They were running up points and wins against mostly garbage.
You've cut and paste these poor arguments from the poor article.
And again - you keep cutting out the teams you're talking about with running games for a rather obvious reason: because even you know it doesn't prove the point you want to make.
I'm gonna say it was both their defense and their #3 overall running game.
More plagiarism on your part.
Can you say, "I'm gonna keep pretending Marino is to blame for the Dolphins giving up an average of nearly 37 ppg in the playoffs when they had a top ten defense?"
Amazingly, Marino has just as many post-season wins as Eli, although you didn't mention that.
Sure he has more losses, but his defense didn't hold the 2007 Patriots to 14 points in the Super Bowl, either. In fact, if Marino's "Top 10 defenses" had done that in those games you're blaming on him, he'd have been undefeated in those, too.
Sorry you can't defend these numbers, stats don't lie:
Marino choked in big games: stats don't lie:
'83 playoff team vs Seattle 2 Ints 77.6 QBR
'84 SB vs SF 2 ints 66.9 QBR
'85 vs NE at home 2 ints 54.9 QBR
'90 vs Buffalo 2 ints 72.1 QBR
'92 vs Buffalo at home 2 ints 56.5 QBR
The only playoff loss he played well
'94 vs SD 0 ints 109.8 QBR
1995 vs Buffalo 3 ints 63.4 QBR
1997 vs NE 2 ints 29.3 QBR!
1998 vs Denv 2 ints 65.5 QBR
1999 vs Jax 2 ints 34.6 QBR!
Two-interception Marino was a big game choking turnover machine!
Five times in his career Marino had a top 10 defense in points allowed. Three times he had a top five defense. Twice he had a defense that led the league in fewest points allowed. How'd that work out for two-turnover Danny?
Sorry that I'm stating facts about your choking hero. Can't handle the truth obviously Selma. I'm done with you.
Show us on the doll where Marino hurt you.
When I think of playoff choking quarterbacks I tend of think about Farve, Lamar, and Peyton. They either single handedly costed their team or they had a loaded team that consistently got there but they couldn’t make the late drive at the end to get them over the hump. Some would say Josh Allen, but in many ways i feel that he is more of the Marino and Kelly comparison in which he either is dealing with a glaring roster flaw going against an elite foe or just something stupid happens and they lose.
I just don’t get the idea that Marino is suddenly responsible for scoring 40 something points to counteract his defense when the league average for scoring offense amongst top offenses was still firmly in the low 20s with ppg.
So you're response to me is to simply reassert the debunked argument.
This is why I don't waste time with Jehovah's Witnesses.
Stats don't lie, but liars do use stats.
Every single one of these points you plagiarized from someone else was thoroughly debunked.
50 years from now, he'll still be in the hall of fame and nobody will ever know you existed, too.
That's how every single person acts when I've laid waste to them online.
Every time.
But here's the thing: I'm writing for the open-minded persons who might view the points you plagiarized word-for-word and might want a fuller context to them.
I never had any delusions of converting you.
This is why I don't waste time with Jehovah's Witnesses.
Stats don't lie, but liars do use stats.
Every single one of these points you plagiarized from someone else was thoroughly debunked.
50 years from now, he'll still be in the hall of fame and nobody will ever know you existed, too.
That's how every single person acts when I've laid waste to them online.
Every time.
But here's the thing: I'm writing for the open-minded persons who might view the points you plagiarized word-for-word and might want a fuller context to them.
I never had any delusions of converting you.
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It was kind of irrelevant - but since you think it matters so much, what can you tell me about those INTs?
1) the last two were in the final six minutes of the game when Pitt was trailing, 41-14, and had literally nothing at all to do with the outcome of the game.
2) in the first instance (the third pick), Marino hit the receiver in the hands at the goal line on the previous play and HE DROPPED THE BALL when he was hit. Blaming Marino for that is absurd.
3) the exact same thing happened in the 2nd quarter on his second pick.
In both cases, the announcers were praising where he placed the ball, but the receivers didn't hold onto it.
Well, they didn't. The first one, yes. The last one - a Pick Six - only mattered in that it turned a 41-14 rout into a 48-14 rout.
I'm still not sure how Marino NOT throwing those INTs exactly helps their defense tackle the Penn State receivers, who as I noted had 262 receiving yards on only 12 catches.
That word doesn't mean what you think it means.
In the first 14 minutes. And two receivers dropped passes GOING INTO THE END ZONE.
But I'm sure you can explain how that is Marino's fault.
And I'm sure you can explain how the fumbles by his two backs that resulted in points were his fault.
And the roughing the kicker penalty that kept a Penn St drive going when they'd been stopped.
Yes, two of them when the game was long over.
One of them off a deflection of a sure TD pass.
Entirely Marino's fault his receivers couldn't catch when he put the ball right in their hands.
Entirely his fault.
But just to show that not even YOU actually believe this argument you just presented:
Put Marino on Penn State and Todd Blackledge on Pitt - and tell me who wins the game.
Brett Favre made more colossally bonehead decisions in high pressure games than any big name Hall of Fame quarterback I can think of.
Lamar Jackson does as well. I don’t mean one mistake at a crucial point, I am talking about a series of thunderhead mistakes that make you wonder whether he’s suffering from the after effects of CTE while the game is in progress.
Josh Allen has had the misfortune of running into better teams. And a few mistakes that weren’t his fault, like giving Patrick Mahomes a short field.
You football geniuses and savants just don't see it.
www.rollingstone.com
10 Biggest Chokers in Sports History
Alexander Ovechkin, James Harden, Dan Marino and other great athletes who couldn't seal the deal.
www.rollingstone.com
You probably already remember but Favre's last play ever was a turnover.
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You football geniuses and savants just don't see it.
10 Biggest Chokers in Sports History
Alexander Ovechkin, James Harden, Dan Marino and other great athletes who couldn't seal the deal.
That’s not the greatest list I’ve seen but it’s Rolling Stone so that tracks.
Barkley was the Suns best player in the early 90’s but they lost to Jordan’s Bulls in ‘93 and Hakeem’s Rockets in ‘94-95
It’s not like the Suns blew it because of Barkley. They went 6 with the Bulls and 7 with the Rockets twice.
Stockton is also absurd with the Jazz and especially to single him out and not name Malone too.
But they also just kept running into tough teams in the West like Drexler’s Trail Blazers and Payton and Kemp’s SuperSonics.
The Jazz also lost 2 Finals in a row to Jordan’s 2nd 3-Peat Bulls teams and both went 6 games.
Jim Kelly I could maybe go either way.
The Bills lost the 1st SB off a missed FG
Kelly was injured in the 2nd or 3rd one I believe.
They got beat the last two by the Aikman/Emmitt cowboys.
He only played awful in one of those where he threw 3-4 picks. I think that was vs the Redskins.
My point is it’s not Kelly’s fault they lost all 4 SB’s
Team sports it’s hard to blame one guy unless it’s somebody like Farve who was reckless with the ball or Barry Bonds who just always no showed.
Sports like Tennis and Golf are easier to find actual choke artists.
Guys that just always melted down on the Back 9 or Guys or Gals who choked in Grand Slam Semis or Finals.
You football geniuses and savants just don't see it.
10 Biggest Chokers in Sports History
Alexander Ovechkin, James Harden, Dan Marino and other great athletes who couldn't seal the deal.
Neither you nor the ignoramus you cited from a music magazine has addressed the bushel of points Marino’s supposedly “great defenses” surrendered in the playoffs, either.
Finding someone else that agrees with your ignorance doesn’t exactly constitute an argument.
Marino played at the same time as Kelly.
In the same division. And Marino was the better QUARTERBACK, too.
Then remember Kelly had not one but TWO HOF receivers (Andre Reed, James Lofton), a HOF running back (Thurman Thomas), and a HOF defensive end (Bruce Smith).
But it is also difficult to say Kelly choked. Kelly wasn’t playing defense when Buffalo blew a 12–3 lead in Super Bowl 25. He wasn’t playing defense when Washington stormed out to a 37-10 lead the following season, either. And he was injured in the first half when buffaloes defense gave up 52 points to the Dallas Cowboys that would’ve been worse, except Leon Lett slowed down and fumbled the ball at the goal line. Even the fourth loss in a row, the bills defense still gave up 30 points. And Dallas could’ve scored more, but the game was well in hand.
I am still trying to figure out how all these losses that people blame on one individual who didn’t even play defense make any sense to anyone except the woefully ignorant.
And comparing a sport of five players like basketball to a sport with 22 like football is laughably absurd. One player in basketball can make the difference in a championship, but it’s very difficult to say it works that way in football even at quarterback.
I must say I've had more than one chuckle reading this "discussion." At least you two have kept it civil....Thanks for the entertainment!!
What's even funnier is that I wouldn't pull for the Miami Dolphins with all four engines out on the team jet.
Nor am I some Marino sycophant.
What I'm TIRED of in the Net age is just plain lazy argumentation - from anyone. I'm not talking about things about which good people can disagree even strongly. I'm talking about the intellectual yahoos one step from consuming paint chips as part of their regular diet who argue like this:
"Eli Manning is a Hall of Famer. HE WON TWO SUPER BOWLS AND BEAT THE GOAT BOTH TIMES!"
So there you have it. You win two Super Bowls as a QB, you're a Hall of Famer.
Just ask Jim Plunkett.
And in the process of the argument, they ALWAYS work their way back to rings, Super Bowls, whatever.
Here's the problem I have with that: championships are TEAM ACCOMPLISHMENTS, not individual. I don't mind "won X championships" as a CLOSING argument to seal the deal, but it can't be the entirety of the argument, either.
If a person argues thusly:
"Eli Manning during his peak years was one of the best quarterbacks in the game. With Eli at the helm, his teams won a whopping 65% of their games while he finished in the Top 5 in the MVP voting in the league FIVE TIMES, no small feat given his competition included Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. He led his darkhorse team to a Super Bowl championship and captured the Super Bowl MVP. Twice he led the league in TDs and was in the top ten in the league THIRTEEN TIMES, and although he never led the league in passing yardage - very difficult to do given the Brady/Manning peer group - he was in the Top Five FOUR TIMES and in the top ten ELEVEN times."
That sounds like a Hall of Famer, right?
It should - that's the generic case for Aaron Rodgers, except I removed his low INT total, which would have given it away. And that's because Rodgers is an all-time great QB....who won ONE Super Bowl on what was far from his best team.
Eli won exactly half of his games, NEVER finished in the Top Five in the MVP voting (although Aaron only moved out in front in games played with his last two seasons), never led the league in TDs (was in the top 5 three times) and the only time he was better than 6th in passing yards in a season was 2011 - when Peyton Manning missed the entire year.
Eli Manning was an average quarterback, above average on a good day who got damned lucky in one Super Bowl (79 of his passing yards in that game were on the final drive, 32 on the helmet catch, which was nothing but damn luck).
We can disagree on the LEVEL of culpability for Marino in that Miami never won a Super Bowl, although I still don't see how he can be blamed for his lousy defenses. But bad arguments like "but Eli has more passing yards than Elway" shouldn't be made by people with brain cells, either.
Yes, and Kirk Cousins and Drew Bledsoe have more yards than Joe Montana and Dan Fouts, too.
So you don't think Marino was reckless with the ball???? Ever remember him audiblizing out of a pass to a draw play????
Not as reckless as someone like Favre.
Marino’s TD:INT ratio was 1.67 when PI and Holding weren’t called like they are now.
He’s Top 50 in that Category… not too far behind Montana from the same era.
I’m not a Marino fan per se but he carried the Dolphins his entire career and it wasn’t necessarily his lone fault they didn’t win a SB.
Favre did win a SB and was also GB’s best player for years but he absolutely cost them games with brain dead INT’s and Pick 6’s.
If I had to pick between those two alone I’d say Marino was the better QB and less likely to get you beat.
I'm not sure what this is supposed to even mean.
He had 15 fewer fumbles than Eli Manning in six more career games.
Yeah, he had 8 more INTs, but given Eli led the league in that category three times to Marino's one, so what?
He more than made up for it with his additional 54 TD passes.
I'd be very interested in seeing how many of Marino's career INTs were CARELESS and how many were either "bounced right off the receiver's hands" or "heave at the end of a half."
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