Some schools will never win a MNC and some schools are destined to win one.

[wastedmason]

You can put the greatest coaches in college football now, the ones who have won or are considered MNC contenders and put them at certain schools and they would never achieve a MNC. I'm not talking about putting them at the Vandys and Dukes of the world but at the Auburns, Texas A&Ms, West Virginias of college football.

I have lived long enough to see Bama win MNCs from 2 different coaches, Bryant and Stallings as well as I have Oklahoma, USC, Notre Dame, Nebraska, Florida, LSU, and Miami. Throw in the ancient coaches, Bowden and Patereno's multiple championships, from FSU and Penn State, then you have for the most part covered the past 46 years of MNC teams. There is a few, Texas, Georgia, Tennessee, Ohio St., Michigan, Clemson, and a very few others who have won 1 MNC in my lifetime. Add all those schools together and you have the cream of the college football crop. The ones who have a realistic shot at winning a MNC with a great coach year in and year out.

There is the Pitt., Georgia Tech/Washington, Colorado and BYUs who have won a MNC but they are anomalies more than real potential MNC type schools. I doubt I will ever see them win a MNC in my lifetime. Those extremes happen from time to time but for the most part you will get the MNC from one of the schools in the second paragraph above. Given one of those schools have a great coach!

Take everyone of those MNC coaches in my lifetime and put him at an Auburn, West Virginia, Texas A&M, Oklahoma State, Wisconsin, UCLA, Oregon, Kentucky, South Carolina, Louisville ect., and I don't think anyone of them could have won a MNC at those schools. Maybe coach Bryant and possibly another or two could have but it would have been an anomaly like Jackie Sherrill did at Pitt. They wouldn't have produced multiple MNC at one of those schools I don't believe. Being in the state of Florida helped Bobby Bowden, but he did do something from nothing which is phenominal to me.

On the other side, I believe there has been some great coaches who most likely would have won a MNC at one of the aforementioned colleges had they been fortunate to have coached there. Ralph "Shug" Jordan comes to mind. Even Tubberville!!!_surpris And I am sure there is many more in that category who would have been better served at one of the historically top programs.

Each one of the top programs have went thru down periods with less than great coaches in my lifetime. But for the most part each one has bounced back and bounced back with a great coach at the helm. We are on the verge of seeing our beloved Tide come back from the ashes with a great coach at the helm! To little or no surprise. Because our history destines us to!!! Just as Auburn is destined to remain where they are.

Auburn has had some great coaches in my mind, Jordan, Pat Dye, Tubberville. But their identity as a whole is being the second college in the state of Alabama, a step below the University of Alabama. If you even mention that they are from the state of Alabama then their fate is sealed. The best decade of Auburn football has left them with no MNCs! Why?! Destiny can be a cruel fate for some as well as it can be for their coaches. Tubbs will not ever win a MNC in his lifetime, even though he has performed a superhuman feat at Auburn. He caught us down but he also has proven he can win when he shouldn't have. At Auburn that is commendable in my mind. He would have done a better job than Phillip Fulmer has at Tennessee I propose!!!

We are on the way back to the top, but that should be no surprise. Its our destiny! Hasn't it always been? I can't wait till September!!!! Roll Tide Roll!!!!!!!!

I Be Wasted!!!!!

 

[GrayTide]

Somehwere in that article you make sense WM, not sure where though. For starters some schools will be perennial contenders for the NC and others will not. The same logic applies to NCAA basketball, UNC, Duke, UCLA, and Kentucky will probably always be in the hunt, but Alabama, USC and PSU are unlikely to ever win a NC in basketball. Those basketball schools mentioned however are not likely to win a NC in football. As for coaches; I think Tuberville would have been more successful at UT than Fulmer because he is a better coach and would not have had to go head to head with Alabama 365 days a year. Tuberville did a respectable job at Ole Miss and due in part to our problems over the past decade has been successful at AU, but he is not going to win a NC at either of those schools. The comment about great programs coming back can be validated by OU. After being a national power and winning a NC under Switzer the program was rocked with scandal and fell on hard times. Such great hires as Gary Gibbs, Howard Schnellenberger, and John Blake failed to return OU to national prominence and it wasn't until Bob Stoops was hired that the program was resurrected. IMO we are on the threshold of a return to greatness, but winning a NC becomes more difficult every year. To win a NC is this new age of college football requires, great coaching, superior talent, and a lot of luck.

 

[PattheCatinSaudi]

Maybe coach Bryant and possibly another or two could have but it would have been an anomaly like Jackie Sherrill did at Pitt. They wouldn't have produced multiple MNC at one of those schools I don't believe.

Johnny Majors coached their MNC team in 1976.

 

[wastedmason]

Somehwere in that article you make sense WM, not sure where though. For starters some schools will be perennial contenders for the NC and others will not. The same logic applies to NCAA basketball, UNC, Duke, UCLA, and Kentucky will probably always be in the hunt, but Alabama, USC and PSU are unlikely to ever win a NC in basketball. Those basketball schools mentioned however are not likely to win a NC in football. As for coaches; I think Tuberville would have been more successful at UT than Fulmer because he is a better coach and would not have had to go head to head with Alabama 365 days a year. Tuberville did a respectable job at Ole Miss and due in part to our problems over the past decade has been successful at AU, but he is not going to win a NC at either of those schools. The comment about great programs coming back can be validated by OU. After being a national power and winning a NC under Switzer the program was rocked with scandal and fell on hard times. Such great hires as Gary Gibbs, Howard Schnellenberger, and John Blake failed to return OU to national prominence and it wasn't until Bob Stoops was hired that the program was resurrected. IMO we are on the threshold of a return to greatness, but winning a NC becomes more difficult every year. To win a NC is this new age of college football requires, great coaching, superior talent, and a lot of luck.

LOL! It confuses me this morning. I was wasted for the most part when I posted this. The point I think I was trying to make is that certain schools no matter who they hire as a coach for the most part will never be a real threat or contender for MNC. Their is the exception from time to time, and usually its because they back into one or get lucky that better teams beat each other up and win it by default. The BCS though has made that harder for that to happen today though.

Auburns 3 greatest coaches, Jordan, Dye and Tubberville have only sniffed a MNC in my lifetime although "Shug" I think did win one but that was before my time. The point is you have the same schools historically winning the majority of MNC even with different coaches and different decades. While these other second tier schools who can't seem to get close no matter who they hire. I doubt very seriously that Steve Spurrier will even get close at South Carolina but I think he would be a good bet to win one at Florida again or say at Alabama. Conversely, I believe Mike Shula could have coached until he was a hundred and never have won a MNC at Bama or anywhere else.

Not every historically great college football school will be down at the same time. Some will be at times and come back later as the others go down but the MNC will consistently remain between those elite programs for the most part.
Auburns only real chance of ever having a chance to win one is because they are in the SEC. If they ever win the SEC championship then there is a chance but not a good one for them to win a MNC. For Auburn to win the SEC outright that usually will mean that the SEC is weak that year and the voters will not go their way if there is a Big 10 or Pac 10 team with equal credentials. Now if Alabama wins the SEC then we have a much better chance with the voters which does play a part in the BCS configuration if that makes sense.

But it takes a great coach even at these historically great football schools to win a MNC. And of course a lot of luck, but those coaches are better at making their own luck. Les Miles would have never won MNC at Ok. St., but at LSU, he did it fairly quickly. The Saban recruits argument has some truth to it, but he didn't win it the following year after Saban left LSU. He did have opportunity to screw them up and yet he did pull one off. I am not ready to call him a great coach but he certainly has a chance to be.

I think I am confused again, lol!! You are right "Pat". Majors won that one in 76 for Pitt. That will probably be the last one Pitt wins though, in my lifetime.

 

[PattheCatinSaudi]

I think I am confused again, lol!! You are right "Pat". Majors won that one in 76 for Pitt. That will probably be the last one Pitt wins though, in my lifetime.

I wish it had been Jackie, he had some great teams at Pitt. Wannstat is never going to win a BCS championship.

 

[Brian McCat]

Bryant did win a share of an MNC at Kentucky in [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_SEC_National_Champions"]1950[/ame].

 

[alextupelo]

Bryant did win a share of an MNC at Kentucky in 1950.

Welcome back, how's Kentucky looking this spring/summer.

 

[Brian McCat]

Welcome back, how's Kentucky looking this spring/summer.

Hey, thanks!

The biggest questions are at receivers. Losing 3 NFL draft picks from the receiving corps is a big blow at Kentucky. Coming out of spring practice, no clear starting QB was chosen. It will probably be Pulley, who has SEC game experience. UK's strength on offense is a full stable of running backs.

Their D is probably the the best UK defense in over 30 years. Can't say if they'll stop everything that gets run at them, but they are guaranteed to hit hard.

Altogether, I think 6 or 7 wins is likely, although 8 is not out of the question with the schedule.

I'm looking forward to our visit back to your place this season. Should be fun.

 

[wastedmason]

Bryant did win a share of an MNC at Kentucky in 1950.

Thats 12 years before my time. Kentucky is about in the same boat as Auburn to me. If they were to ever win the SEC and run the table, it would be considered a down year in the SEC and they wouldn't be given the same clout as a Big 10, Big 12 or a Pac 10 historically great football team with similar records by the voters. But I sure would pull for UK over the barn to get a shot. I still enjoy how the barn's best season ever left them on the outside looking in, lol!!!

 

[alextupelo]

Hey, thanks!

The biggest questions are at receivers. Losing 3 NFL draft picks from the receiving corps is a big blow at Kentucky. Coming out of spring practice, no clear starting QB was chosen. It will probably be Pulley, who has SEC game experience. UK's strength on offense is a full stable of running backs.

Their D is probably the the best UK defense in over 30 years. Can't say if they'll stop everything that gets run at them, but they are guaranteed to hit hard.

Altogether, I think 6 or 7 wins is likely, although 8 is not out of the question with the schedule.

I'm looking forward to our visit back to your place this season. Should be fun.

And we're glad to have you back, i think most of us are tired of Vandy giving us fits. Hope the hear more from you as we get closer to kickoff.

 

[M2J]

I must say that I somewhat disagree with this theory. It is true that you often see the same schools competing over the years, but a lot has to do with how the program is ran and the talent in the schools backyard.

I think if a team like Auburn or UCLA had a great coach and recruiter like well.... Saban or Meyer or Carroll then a lot would be possible there. If one of those coaches were in Tubby's shoes from when he first got there to now, then their history probably changes dramatically. With Alabama down, they may have taken an absolutely huge advantage in taking over the states recruiting. Well I think even Shula out recruited Tubby in state, either that or a few blue chippers left the state (with Tubs getting a decent share due to the circumstances). If a team like LSU can become a premiere program in the nation I think that Auburn or UCLA could do the same with the right man manning the ship.

Give coach Bryant more time at Kentucky or A&M and Im fairly certain their history changes dramatically for the better. Especially A&M, with the ability to recruit regularly in Texas. So much of this game rests on how much talent a coach can bring in to fit his system, and then how he coaches it. The program can make it easier to bring in talent, but in situations where it doesn't a great coach can sometimes overcome that

 

[Brian McCat]

I think that Bryant left UK at the right time for him professionally. There was an asinine law passed that hamstrung recruiting for football. The gist of it was that Kentucky could only sign 5 out of staters per year to a scholarship, and UK would not participate in any out of state recruiting. They wrongly assumed that Kentucky had a talent pool deep enough to support it.

The pool wasn't deep enough. Kentucky was plunged into the dark ages of football.

 

[deliveryman35]

I must say that I somewhat disagree with this theory. It is true that you often see the same schools competing over the years, but a lot has to do with how the program is ran and the talent in the schools backyard.

I think if a team like Auburn or UCLA had a great coach and recruiter like well.... Saban or Meyer or Carroll then a lot would be possible there. If one of those coaches were in Tubby's shoes from when he first got there to now, then their history probably changes dramatically. With Alabama down, they may have taken an absolutely huge advantage in taking over the states recruiting. Well I think even Shula out recruited Tubby in state, either that or a few blue chippers left the state (with Tubs getting a decent share due to the circumstances). If a team like LSU can become a premiere program in the nation I think that Auburn or UCLA could do the same with the right man manning the ship.

Give coach Bryant more time at Kentucky or A&M and Im fairly certain their history changes dramatically for the better. Especially A&M, with the ability to recruit regularly in Texas. So much of this game rests on how much talent a coach can bring in to fit his system, and then how he coaches it. The program can make it easier to bring in talent, but in situations where it doesn't a great coach can sometimes overcome that

I agree, M2J. While I agree you will always have perennial powerhouses, I really believe that because of parity and the way the NCAA, for the better or worse, has legislated the sport of college football the past 25-30 yrs, that a 'no-name' program has a better chance now more than ever to compete for and even win a MNC. Some examples that come to mind are Miami in '83(They were considered a dead program before Schnelly came along), BYU in '84, and Colorado in '90.

 

[wastedmason]

I must say that I somewhat disagree with this theory. It is true that you often see the same schools competing over the years, but a lot has to do with how the program is ran and the talent in the schools backyard.

I think if a team like Auburn or UCLA had a great coach and recruiter like well.... Saban or Meyer or Carroll then a lot would be possible there. If one of those coaches were in Tubby's shoes from when he first got there to now, then their history probably changes dramatically. With Alabama down, they may have taken an absolutely huge advantage in taking over the states recruiting. Well I think even Shula out recruited Tubby in state, either that or a few blue chippers left the state (with Tubs getting a decent share due to the circumstances). If a team like LSU can become a premiere program in the nation I think that Auburn or UCLA could do the same with the right man manning the ship.

Give coach Bryant more time at Kentucky or A&M and Im fairly certain their history changes dramatically for the better. Especially A&M, with the ability to recruit regularly in Texas. So much of this game rests on how much talent a coach can bring in to fit his system, and then how he coaches it. The program can make it easier to bring in talent, but in situations where it doesn't a great coach can sometimes overcome that

Everything you say makes sense and you may very well be correct. LSU in my opinion finally hired a great coach and with their recruiting base and being the only big time school in a hot bed for talent in Louisiana he took them to the next level. And I really don't see them going down anytime soon unless they screw themselves like we did a few years back. I believe though that if Auburn was located in the state of Louisiana then they would have the same problem as they do in Alabama. Playing second fiddle.

Coach Bryant would have no doubt made a huge difference at UK and A&M if he had of stayed. But ask yourself. Why didn't he? He knew, I believe that he had a much better chance for glory and that the destiny of MNC was a much better possibility at Bama than those other schools he had coached at. I think he knew even the pro's couldn't offer him the opportunity's of success and glory that he had at Bama.

 

[wastedmason]

I agree, M2J. While I agree you will always have perennial powerhouses, I really believe that because of parity and the way the NCAA, for the better or worse, has legislated the sport of college football the past 25-30 yrs, that a 'no-name' program has a better chance now more than ever to compete for and even win a MNC. Some examples that come to mind are Miami in '83(They were considered a dead program before Schnelly came along), BYU in '84, and Colorado in '90.

Actually I think that the BCS that we have now hurts the chances of a lesser known like BYU to win a MNC. Until we have a playoff system in place I doubt you will ever see that happen again. One more good argument for a playoff if you ask me.

Miami was about like FSU back in the 70's. Neither one was good at all. Even Auburn was a better football school. What happened since? They have the fortune of being in a talent rich state, Florida. And also had a great coach take them to the next level. The state of Alabama, Tennessee, Louisiana, even Georgia can't sustain more than one great program. Some states like Mississippi, South Carolina, Arkansas, North Carolina and Kentucky have trouble producing anything resembling a great football program. Why? I think in reality there is only room in college football for so many great programs in a region.

 

[BamaSkins]

wasted, great post; you caused me to do some research; since 1960 the 12 teams that have won multiple NC's or shared championships are:

BAMA - 4 outright '61, '64, '79, '92...3 shared '65, '73, '78
USC - 4 outright '62, '67, '72, '04...3 shared '74, '78', 03
Miami - 4 outright '83, '87, '89, '01...1 shared '91
Texas - 3 outright '63, '69, '05.........1 shared '70
Notre Dame - 3 outright '66, '77, '88.........1 shared '73
Oklahoma - 3 outright '75, '85, '00.........1 shared '74
Nebraska - 3 outright '71, '94, '95.........2 shared '70, '97
FSU - 2 outright '93, '99
Ohio State - 2 outright '68, '02
Fla - 2 outright '96, '06
Penn St. - 2 outright '82, '86
LSU - 1 outright '07...1 shared '03
you are correct, only a handful of the 100+ Division I teams have a chance to win the NC...our record speaks for itself...Bama will win it again in my lifetime and I'm not a spring chicken.

 

[wastedmason]

wasted, great post; you caused me to do some research; since 1960 the 12 teams that have won multiple NC's or shared championships are:

BAMA - 4 outright '61, '64, '79, '92...3 shared '65, '73, '78
USC - 4 outright '62, '67, '72, '04...3 shared '74, '78', 03
Miami - 4 outright '83, '87, '89, '01...1 shared '91
Texas - 3 outright '63, '69, '05.........1 shared '70
Notre Dame - 3 outright '66, '77, '88.........1 shared '73
Oklahoma - 3 outright '75, '85, '00.........1 shared '74
Nebraska - 3 outright '71, '94, '95.........2 shared '70, '97
FSU - 2 outright '93, '99
Ohio State - 2 outright '68, '02
Fla - 2 outright '96, '06
Penn St. - 2 outright '82, '86
LSU - 1 outright '07...1 shared '03
you are correct, only a handful of the 100+ Division I teams have a chance to win the NC...our record speaks for itself...Bama will win it again in my lifetime and I'm not a spring chicken.

Great work!!! I hope and expect to see another or two MNC's in my lifetime also! Roll Tide !!!!!!

 

[TexasBama]

Paul Bryant would win a MNC at Florida Atlantic. He was that good.

 

[wastedmason]

Paul Bryant would win a MNC at Florida Atlantic. He was that good.

If coach Bryant had of went to Florida Atlantic instead of Bama back then when he came to Bama, I certainly would agree. None of the Florida schools were powers back then and we all know the fertile talent that Florida produces. Florida Atlantic would be the FSU of today.

He possibly could have did it in todays times but it would have been much harder and I doubt he would have won 6 MNC's there as he did at Bama. We were down at the time he came to Bama but our status as a football power had been established many years before he came back as our coach.

 

[GrayTide]

If coach Bryant had of went to Florida Atlantic instead of Bama back then when he came to Bama, I certainly would agree. None of the Florida schools were powers back then and we all know the fertile talent that Florida produces. Florida Atlantic would be the FSU of today.

He possibly could have did it in todays times but it would have been much harder and I doubt he would have won 6 MNC's there as he did at Bama. We were down at the time he came to Bama but our status as a football power had been established many years before he came back as our coach.

I am not sure WM if Coach Bryant would have won a NC at Florida Atlantic. You have to remember that in 1958 there were no scholarship limitations and therefore no parity, the haves and the have nots were clearly defined. Now I do think he would have eventually won a NC had he remained at TAMU, or probably at most any major school. I think were he still around and in his prime he would win a NC but to accomplish what he did, 6 NCs in 24, years may never be accomplised again. He was a great coach, no question, but his timing was also very good.