5,500 troops awol

[blackumbrella]

"American Army soldiers are deserting and fleeing to Canada rather than fight in Iraq, rekindling memories of the thousands of draft-dodgers who flooded north to avoid service in Vietnam.


The Pentagon says that the level of desertion is no higher than usual and denies that it is having difficulty persuading troops to fight. The flight to Canada is, however, an embarrassment for the military, which is suffering from a recruiting shortfall for the National Guard and the Army Reserves. "

source

 

[NOSty]

LOL...they thought they would get a free ride off the government tit. Morale nothing, they refused to honor their end of the bargain...not like they were drafted...

 

[TommyMac]

Just separating the wheat from the chaff.

Let's take stock, one loser wants nothing to do with bearing a weapon, he only wants to rattle those pots and pans. The other loser is just a leech looking for a free college education.

Looks like a win situation for the USA to me.

 

[NYBamaFan]

Here is the line in the article that was largely ignored in the analysis of the events...

The Pentagon says that the level of desertion is no higher than usual and denies that it is having difficulty persuading troops to fight.

When I was in the Army, we had 6 kids go AWOL while in Basic Training, and many others during the remaining 3 years of my service. Remember, these are kids. They think that they know what they are getting into, and many cannot handle the lifestyle. You must put up with someone else telling you when, where and how to do everything. You cannot go to the bathroom without permission. That is not easy. Add the possibility of facing death, and it is understandable that some might leave.

The pressures were so high in my unit that one soldier just sat down on the side of the road during a movement and refused to move. We were miles from nowhere and he said, simply "I am done!" He was lifted into the back of a 5 ton truck (he didn't help or hinder) and we never saw him again.

 

[TiderinVA]

The guy that says he has a right to not obey an

order that is immoral, that's total BS. He has a right to disobey an order that he knows is ILLEGAL. There is a big difference between an immoral and illegal order and when we start letting soldiers decide which orders are "moral" and which aren't, we're in trouble.

They need to hunt down those guys that put them in some serious prison time in Leavenworth. These guys are cowards, nothing more. All this mindless psycho babble about moral qualms is total BS and they're cowards. I'd either shoot them or put them in Leavenworth about 30 years with no parole.

 

[jdpas29]

OH NO!!!! we have to fight!??!!??!??

Back up the Waaaaaaambulance!!! _cry: _cry: _cry: _cry:

 

[NYBamaFan]

VA,

It is hard to argue with your assessment that they should be punished, but prison/death seems a bit severe - even in times of war. Threat of death for AWOL convictions would only create worse morale within the ranks, as history has proven. They are only kids. A dishonorable discharge, combined with restitution of any signing bonus (worked off scrubbing pots & pans before the discharge) would probably suffice. Remember, a dishonorable discharge follows you the rest of your life - with repercussions akin to a felony conviction in the job market...

 

[Pluck and Grit]

Yeah, I can see it being desertion numbers as usual. Even in the 90's, when we were relatively at peace, I remember hearing about guys deserting here and there. This was back when I was USN.

 

[Pachydermatous]

Plus, AWOL count is sometimes partly an administrative number. When I went home on my first leave, I lost my wallet (containing orders, meal tickets and money) on the bus. Loss of orders meant technically AWOL, so I turned myself in to the Memphis air base. They put me (at the time a private) up in the transient officers' barracks and gave me run of the field, chow hall and movie while I awaited new orders and tickets. The Air Police chipped in and provided spending money during my stay. But for the best part of a week I upped the AWOL count by one.

 

[Queasy1]

This guy went AWOL from the Navy and protested the ship he was to serve on as it left port.

Here is what he could have been doing.

His ship was the USS Abraham Lincoln which is the aircraft carrier that is providing a crucial role in the tsunami relief efforts.

This boy is an a$$hat.

 

[Queasy1]

Here is an essay from a Lt. Col. serving in Iraq on the media aiding and abetting the enemy.

I just read yet another distorted and grossly exaggerated story from a major news organization about the "failures" in the war in Iraq. Print and video journalists are covering only a small fraction of the events in Iraq and more often than not, the events they cover are only the bad ones. Many of the journalists making public assessments about the progress of the war in Iraq are unqualified to do so, given their training and experience. The inaccurate picture they paint has distorted the world view of the daily realities in Iraq. The result is a further erosion of international public support for the United States' efforts there, and a strengthening of the insurgents' resolve and recruiting efforts while weakening our own. Through their incomplete, uninformed and unbalanced reporting, many members of the media covering the war in Iraq are aiding and abetting the enemy.

 

[CrimsonNan]

From the article:

Through their incomplete, uninformed and unbalanced reporting, many members of the media
covering the war in Iraq are aiding and abetting the enemy.

************************

Probably not so much "uninformed" or "incomplete" as their unbalanced reporting, done on purpose, to make things look worse than they are. And, of course, they are aiding and abetting the enemy. Wonder why the media hates America so much that they prefer the enemy to win? :mad2:

 

[Tidewater]

"American Army soldiers are deserting and fleeing to Canada rather than fight in Iraq, rekindling memories of the thousands of draft-dodgers who flooded north to avoid service in Vietnam.


The Pentagon says that the level of desertion is no higher than usual and denies that it is having difficulty persuading troops to fight. The flight to Canada is, however, an embarrassment for the military, which is suffering from a recruiting shortfall for the National Guard and the Army Reserves. "

source

"During the Vietnam war an estimated 55,000 deserters or draft-dodgers fled to Canada. There were amnesties for both groups in the late 1970s under President Jimmy Carter, but many stayed.

One who [stayed in Canada] is Jeffrey House, a Toronto-based lawyer, who represents some of the deserters. He said that at least 25 had reached Canada in recent months with the help of "railroad" organisations, and believed that the immigration board would back his clients."
Wow! 25 of them in recent months?
Jeremy Hinzman (of South Dakota) is engaging in post-facto rationalizations for desertion. Hinzman "became disillusioned when no weapons of mass destruction were found." More likely, he became "disilluioned" when his platoon sergeant made him do his job, or spoke harshly to him.
Hopefully, he will get a chance to come visit Fort Leavenworth. The maximum penalty for sesertion is execution. Unfortunately, the last time the Army executed a convict was 1968, and if they ever do one again, it will be by lethal injection.

 

[Tidewater]

VA,

It is hard to argue with your assessment that they should be punished, but prison/death seems a bit severe - even in times of war. Threat of death for AWOL convictions would only create worse morale within the ranks, as history has proven.

You know that, after 30 days, this guy guilty desertion, not of AWOL. And we are at war. And executions for desertion have worked in the past. Not that they are likely in this case, but I would like to see Little Jeremy pay us a visit at Fort Leavenworth, however.

 

[exiledNms]

Probably not so much "uninformed" or "incomplete" as their unbalanced reporting, done on purpose, to make things look worse than they are. And, of course, they are aiding and abetting the enemy. Wonder why the media hates America so much that they prefer the enemy to win? :mad2:

Hold it...you're saying that not everything that the media reports is accurate & unbiased? I'm shocked...shocked I tell you...(OK, not really)

 

[Pachydermatous]

More on AWOLs:

Anyone who's ever been in service knows what I'm talking about. Just as in civilian life, there's the bottom of the barrel in every military and this is home for most AWOLS. You have those who go on leave are are too drunk or doped to find their way back. Others are too dumb. Some think Sarge is a meanie and leave in a huff. Others learned all about military life from Hollywood and are crushed by reality. Many are just plain afraid of getting shot --- these are the types who invent contorted political reasons for fleeing and get the most play in the media. Others are just slow between the ears, like the dumbo in the story above who thought the Army was an entrance exam for college. Still others are those gentle souls who spend life in a terminal daze --- they wander off the reservation and end up working in a car wash in Topeka.

Altogether, they form the most useless and helpless percentage of recruits. You surely won't sleep soundly knowing they are on guard. Like the poster said above, we are well rid of them.

 

[Piglet]

I'd feel more sympathy for these guys if they hadn't volunteered for soldier duty in the first place. Yeah, it's possible to have moral objections to what we're doing over there. I have some of those myself. But then, why sign up? As it is, it sure looks like they enlisted just to get the benefits and then got cold feet when the guns went off.

The armed forces are the ultimate SERVICE sector. You go there to SERVE your country, not to benefit yourself. Maybe people gotta have that explained to them these days, in which case it's a sadder world than it was in my day.

 

[TiderinVA]

NY, these are not "kids". They are ADULTS.

Other than in some cases drinking legally, they have all the rights and priveleges of being an adult and unfortunately for them, the obligations of being one also.

As for shooting deserters not working, I'd argue that it DOES work. I wonder how many young people you know today. The ones I know don't give a rats fanny about the repurcussions of a dishonorable discharge. They laugh that off because it has little effect on their future plans. How will it hurt them? Making them ineligible for VA benefits? Make them ineligible for veteran's preference in Civil Service jobs? 99% of them don't care about that stuff.

Being shot or doing 30 years hard labor in Leavenworth, that they would care about. Unfortunately, as a society, we don't have the testosterone to do what needs to be done. We're a "touchy-feely" nation now, where "everyone is a victim" and "no one is responsible for their actions". No doubt they'll get off scot free.