A Non-Sports "Sports" discussion based on LSU Women's Basketball team

[Bamabuzzard]

I figured this was the best place to put this because the root of what I want to discuss isn't sports, but something I see a lot of in sports but is also prevalent throughout our society. If you follow women's college basketball you know that LSU's team in general (and Angel Reese individually) has gotten a lot of public criticism for their style of play. Their coach and their players have openly stated they talk trash (unapologetically) and have "attitudes" (unapologetically). Their coach, who I think is a phenomenal basketball coach, has publicly stated she isn't going to apologize for "who they are" as a team. Which is a team that talks a lot of trash on the court and plays with abrasive attitudes toward their opponents. The online criticism and an article by a West Coast journalist have crossed the line in their criticism and I fully agree there isn't any place for that type of criticism. But, in the realm of the real world, I don't know what one really expects when you basically advertise that your team is going to trash-talk you and treat you any way they want. So there you go...

But what I don't understand, is when listening to the LSU coach and players it seems like they want to be able to say and do whatever they want, no matter how abrasive, without any pushback from other players and people in general. They want to be "respected" or better yet "not disrespected" yet in the realm of sports and sportsmanship, they have no interest in giving it. It comes across as very hypocritical.

I was at a HS baseball game this past weekend and a kid hit a home run, as he was running to first he looked directly at the opponent's dugout (which is the first base dugout) did a huge bat flip, and was trash-talking directly at their dugout. Well, anyone who has played baseball at that level or higher knows, the next time he came up to bat he got drilled square in the back by an 80+ mph fastball. The player and his coach went absolutely nuts, yet had no problem completely disrespecting the team two innings earlier.

My point is, I see a lot of society reflecting what I see in sports. "We" demand respect, and are sensitive to being "disrespected" but have no interest in reciprocating to those we demand respect from. I just have a hard time understanding how someone can rationalize that in their mind that it is "okay" for them in the name of "being who I am", treating people with no respect but expecting it in return. I apologize for the vent session, I've just seen too much of it in the last few weeks and needed a therapy post. Thanks for listening.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

I don't have a major problem with their style or trash talking (though I am no fan of Kim Mulkey). I agree with you though. Some criticism like the LA Times story you alluded to went too far, but if you embrace the villain role then you need to be prepared for the backlash that comes with that role.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I don't have a major problem with their style or trash talking (though I am no fan of Kim Mulkey). I agree with you though. Some criticism like the LA Times story you alluded to went too far, but if you embrace the villain role then you need to be prepared for the backlash that comes with that role.

I guess that's what I don't get, is purposely playing a style of play that common sense tells you is going to bring a lot of criticism then playing the victim role once the coals of the backlash get too hot.

But like I said, I see it in other areas of life as well. I see this same thing at work, in the classroom at schools and just in society in general. This demand for respect but zero interest in giving it.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

A culture as entitled and hypocritical as ours will inevitably wind up with a ton of people like this. Personal accountability is basically a fiction for a disturbingly large segment of our society so it should come as no surprise when people are genuinely shocked when having to deal with the real-world consequences of their actions and/or words.

 

[Go Bama]

Lsu women are the modern day Miami Hurricanes football team.

We all know what they're trying to do with the trash talking, but I don't think it gains them much advantage.

Larry Bird was a notorious trash talker, but he states it was not malicious.

Late in his career, Pete Maravich played for the Celtics when Bird was just starting. In one game Maravich passed the ball to Bird who was double teamed. Bird shot and missed. At the next TO, Maravich confronted Bird and said he should have passed. Bird looked at Pete and said, "If you were any %@#&*$! good, they wouldn't be double teaming me." This according to Bird's teammates. I don't know if it's true or not, but it did make me laugh.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Lsu women are the modern day Miami Hurricanes football team.

We all know what they're trying to do with the trash talking, but I don't think it gains them much advantage.

Larry Bird was a notorious trash talker, but he states it was not malicious.

Late in his career, Pete Maravich played for the Celtics when Bird was just starting. In one game Maravich passed the ball the Bird who was double teamed. Bird shot and missed. At the next TO, Maravich confronted Bird and said he should have passed. Bird looked at Pete and said, "If you were any %@#&*$! good, they wouldn't be double teaming me." This according to Bird's teammates. I don't know if it's true or not, but it did make me laugh.

I miss Larry; they just don't make em like they used to. I honestly can't remember the last time I watched an NBA game. TBH, the only pro sport I even like anymore is boxing.

 

[2003TIDE]

Once she threatened to sue over an article she didn’t like, I kind of hoped she would. Nice to see the dog catch the car tire every now and then. A lot of people don’t like her or aren't surprised and basically the “coach Karen” is deserved when she goes off and threatens to lawsuits whenever a story is written she doesn’t like.

 

[JDCrimson]

We are sorely missing the lessons of playground justice today...

 

[81usaf92]

I figured this was the best place to put this because the root of what I want to discuss isn't sports, but something I see a lot of in sports but is also prevalent throughout our society. If you follow women's college basketball you know that LSU's team in general (and Angel Reese individually) has gotten a lot of public criticism for their style of play. Their coach and their players have openly stated they talk trash (unapologetically) and have "attitudes" (unapologetically). Their coach, who I think is a phenomenal basketball coach, has publicly stated she isn't going to apologize for "who they are" as a team. Which is a team that talks a lot of trash on the court and plays with abrasive attitudes toward their opponents. The online criticism and an article by a West Coast journalist have crossed the line in their criticism and I fully agree there isn't any place for that type of criticism. But, in the realm of the real world, I don't know what one really expects when you basically advertise that your team is going to trash-talk you and treat you any way they want. So there you go...

But what I don't understand, is when listening to the LSU coach and players it seems like they want to be able to say and do whatever they want, no matter how abrasive, without any pushback from other players and people in general. They want to be "respected" or better yet "not disrespected" yet in the realm of sports and sportsmanship, they have no interest in giving it. It comes across as very hypocritical.

I was at a HS baseball game this past weekend and a kid hit a home run, as he was running to first he looked directly at the opponent's dugout (which is the first base dugout) did a huge bat flip, and was trash-talking directly at their dugout. Well, anyone who has played baseball at that level or higher knows, the next time he came up to bat he got drilled square in the back by an 80+ mph fastball. The player and his coach went absolutely nuts, yet had no problem completely disrespecting the team two innings earlier.

My point is, I see a lot of society reflecting what I see in sports. "We" demand respect, and are sensitive to being "disrespected" but have no interest in reciprocating to those we demand respect from. I just have a hard time understanding how someone can rationalize that in their mind that it is "okay" for them in the name of "being who I am", treating people with no respect but expecting it in return. I apologize for the vent session, I've just seen too much of it in the last few weeks and needed a therapy post. Thanks for listening.

Well honestly the real reason anyone actually cares about LSU and USCe so much right now is because they aren’t Iowa or UConn. Women’s sports outside a brief run in the UFC with Ronda Rousey has never been even remotely comparable to its male counterparts in the same sport. My point is that we are only hearing about this because people are watching the sport far more than they usually do and it’s in a large part because of Caitlin Clark although no one really wants to admit it because it gets into the “you are a racist” game.

I watched the Iowa and LSU game largely because everyone had been talking about it all week and there literally was nothing else to watch. I came away with the fact that there are only two really great players on both teams combined and everyone else reminds me why no one watches the WNBA.

But the entitlement argument… it’s a far different generation than mine. Growing up it was just the people who were born in a considerable amount of money be entitled. Now I find more who have far less than me. It seems a good amount people are also far short sided on believing that High School is the pinnacle of life, and that anything afterwards only matters if they get a free ride or pro deal. I know that is incredibly broad but it’s something I’m starting to see far more often and it could explain alot of things happening from the NIL crisis in college football to the teacher shortages as well.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

But the entitlement argument… it’s a far different generation than mine. Growing up it was just the people who were born in a considerable amount of money be entitled. Now I find more who have far less than me. It seems a good amount people are also far short sided on believing that High School is the pinnacle of life, and that anything afterwards only matters if they get a free ride or pro deal. I know that is incredibly broad but it’s something I’m starting to see far more often and it could explain alot of things happening from the NIL crisis in college football to the teacher shortages as well.

I think we're now experiencing what our parents and especially grandparents did when our generation and generations after them were coming up, cultural changes. I'm certain they saw cultural changes in child rearing and changes in what was acceptable behavior by kids in their day compared to what they were seeing after them. Many of us are now getting into that phase of life where we've lived long enough to experience what they did. But I agree, it is a much, much different culture than what I was raised in wrt social behavior acceptability. Granted, it was far, far from perfect, but still, VERY VERY different in what was socially accepted in behavior.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

The whole generation thing may be part of it. But Mulkey is the leader in all of this and she's 61 so...

 

[81usaf92]

The whole generation thing may be part of it. But Mulkey is the leader in all of this and she's 61 so...

Yeah and Saban was the leader last year for Alabama and we had a bunch of overly entitled players who worried more about who the quarterback was and how much they were getting paid. In the world of NIL the coach basically calls plays and sets up staffs.

This generation is horrible about entitlement

 

[Bamabuzzard]

The whole generation thing may be part of it. But Mulkey is the leader in all of this and she's 61 so...

That's a good point. I don't follow women's basketball much but in the few interviews I've watched of Mulkey I was taken back and not in a good way. I'm certain she's an excellent basketball coach, but her philosophy on how she wants her team to function, some would call immature and a lack of sportsmanship. But again, what is accepted in today's culture wasn't when I was growing up, so there you go.

 

[81usaf92]

I think we're now experiencing what our parents and especially grandparents did when our generation and generations after them were coming up, cultural changes. I'm certain they saw cultural changes in child rearing and changes in what was acceptable behavior by kids in their day compared to what they were seeing after them. Many of us are now getting into that phase of life where we've lived long enough to experience what they did. But I agree, it is a much, much different culture than what I was raised in wrt social behavior acceptability. Granted, it was far, far from perfect, but still, VERY VERY different in what was socially accepted in behavior.

The truth is that all generations are pretty much the same in that they have extreme highs and lows but ultimately they are different based on resources available. I mean every American kid has a phone these days and it has basically killed any sense of self reliance.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

Yeah and Saban was the leader last year for Alabama and we had a bunch of overly entitled players who worried more about who the quarterback was and how much they were getting paid. In the world of NIL the coach basically calls plays and sets up staffs.

This generation is horrible about entitlement

The team that was an OT away from playing for a National Championship? Anyway not really my point.

My point here is this is Mulkey's brand she encourages the whole thing

 

[81usaf92]

The team that was an OT away from playing for a National Championship? Anyway not really my point.

My point here is this is Mulkey's brand she encourages the whole thing

Maybe but at this point the players are in control so who is to say Mulkey isn’t doing it out of necessity.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

That's a good point. I don't follow women's basketball much but in the few interviews I've watched of Mulkey I was taken back and not in a good way. I'm certain she's an excellent basketball coach, but her philosophy on how she wants her team to function, some would call immature and a lack of sportsmanship. But again, what is accepted in today's culture wasn't when I was growing up, so there you go.

Definitely fair. But I have a hard time blaming kids for that when kids aren't really the ones that set the tone or set boundaries for what is and isn't acceptable. Kids are supposed to push boundaries to see where the line is. Adults are the ones who are supposed to help them find that line. So, I tend to blame society/adults as opposed to younger generations.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

My cousin who is 49 coached a 15-16 year old summer showcase baseball team several years ago. He had one kid who was about 6'1 and right at 180 lbs. In other words, a pretty big kid for that age. They were sucking it up at practice one day and my cousin had them running. This kid told my cousin he wasn't running. After some back and forth, the kid still refused to run so my cousin told him to "pack his 'stuff' and get the hell out of here" and that he was done playing for him. The kid bowed up on my cousin and got right in his face threatening to whip his "aspirin" right then and there. My cousin told me he had one of two choices, let the kid punk him in front of the team and lose all respect, or call the kid's bluff and give him a life lesson. So he gave the kid a life lesson and put him on his back with a forearm across the kid's throat and while the kid was wheezing for air he heard "You ever get in my face again, you'll have my knuckles in the back of your throat. Now get your 'stuff' and get out of here." The kid gets up crying, gets his stuff, and never comes back.

My cousin told me he would have NEVER in a million years even considered doing that to one of his coaches at that age. He would have eaten a box of nails before doing that.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Definitely fair. But I have a hard time blaming kids for that when kids aren't really the ones that set the tone or set boundaries for what is and isn't acceptable. Kids are supposed to push boundaries to see where the line is. Adults are the ones who are supposed to help them find that line. So, I tend to blame society/adults as opposed to younger generations.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you at all, I think there are multiple dynamics in this and areas of responsibility that yes, ultimately fall at the coach's feet. I don't excuse the coach's behavior whatsoever.

 

[81usaf92]

Definitely fair. But I have a hard time blaming kids for that when kids aren't really the ones that set the tone or set boundaries for what is and isn't acceptable. Kids are supposed to push boundaries to see where the line is. Adults are the ones who are supposed to help them find that line. So, I tend to blame society/adults as opposed to younger generations.

I never blame kids. Parents/guardians and School Administrators are more to blame.

But at the same time expecting a college coach to be able to police a bunch of millionaires who can freely shop their talent once they get angry at a coach or wants more money is not fair either.