i've had the same thoughts as mlh on this one. this year, pass to setup the run. next year, run to setup the pass. it's all about utilizing your talent and experience.
Air Bama....or Power running game?
- Thread starter Crimson Hawk
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I agree with playing to what you have in the huddle, and this year I can easily see some WR's breaking out, and with Croyles ability to get the ball to them in a hurry, I favor the passing game this year. I thought Auburn's best progress last year was in the passing game, no doubt. They put games away with the pass. They could have put Va Tech away early if they had stuck to it, but they got conservative and it got too close for comfort. I'm all for running out the clock with the run, but if your at your best with the pass I say stick to it. The game has evolved somewhat into favoring the pass with the idea of exploiting individual matchups, and if you can exploit anything, why not a 30 yarder to a six plus burner who can shake one tackle and head for six? I believe Radar and CMS want to do this anyway, they know what they have better than anyone and I can easily see air bama incorporated this year. I also believe our O-line is very capable, I keep hearing the younger ones are more talented anyway.
I have to disagree....I watched two games between Louisiana Tech and Hawaii over the past few years when I lived in Louisiana and neither team knows what a running game is (neither have fullbacks on their roster)....until Tech found a good running back last yearbamahuey1 said:
but those were two of the most horribly boring games I've ever watched partly because they took 100 hours each
granted Tech and Hawaii don't have the same caliber of athlete but they have the talent to successfully run the system
the law of averages says will yield that the more times you attempt a pass, the more times you will be unsuccessful (as well as successful)
now the percentage of drops and incompletions was probably not any higher than in a 'Bama/Auburn game but because there were so many more attempts it made it seem much much more pronounced
Ole Miss was the same way....it was just painful to watch them play a game under Cutcliffe because of that system
in each of the three cases mentioned there have been no balance....somebody mentioned Boise State earlier, well Boise averages more rushing yards a gaem that they do passing and this is because they throw the ball something fierce to open the game and cram it down your throat in the second half
the flip side is Florida under Steve Spurrier, Florida State in their heyday and USC today....just like Boise, they passed the ball to no end but had a running game that could do just as much damage and look at the success they achieved
case rested
Cutcliffe doesn't run a pass-first offense. It's a pro-style offense that has always run the ball a lot. Their scheme is frighteningly predictable with their personel dictating the play that will take place, adding no sense of unpredictability what so ever.
People content with "being the toughest team that they faced this year" and "bloodying their noses" will not witness an offense that will win anything. You have to throw the ball to win now. Yeah, it's a fact. Running the football with success, averaging 140-150 ypg rushing, is a must. However, this oldschool thought of just running and throwing the deep ball every now and then and "surprising them" with playaction passes...wow.
Alabama's offense is usually not anything special, and this is the reason for it. The defense has always been the saving grace for Alabama, and when Alabama has not won, more often than not, it has been because of an inept passing game. Alabama's career leader in passing yardage is Andrew Zow, with 5,983 yards. Alabama has averaged over 200 yards passing once since 1995. Alabama has only averaged over 200 yards rushing twice since 1995. Yes, that equates to horrible offense. Alabama is in the bottom tier of the SEC offensively the past decade and there has been no sign of improvement, at all.
FORTUNATELY, Alabama's defense has been one of the best the past decade, with 5 of Bama's 10 defenses allowing fewer than 20 pts. per game.
Alabama's offense has averaged 23.6, 24.3, 22.4, 20.9, 29.2, 20.7, 26.5, 28.2, 25.5, and 24.6 points per game since 1995. Is it a coincidence that Bama's two most successful years offensively led to 2 of the 3 SEC West Titles Bama has won in that span? 02 and 99. Hmmm.
The offense dictates what kind of season Alabama has. Alabama's defense is almost always good. The grind it out, smash mouth game does not work anymore. You have to pass at least for over 200 yards per game, a feat Alabama has not accomplished but once since 95.
What is it with Bama?? While teams such as Florida, Tennessee, Georgia, Auburn, LSU have forged ahead with pro style passing attacks that lead to 30+ pt seasons, we remain in the mid-lower tier of the SEC every year points and passing wise.
Until this program learns how to throw the ball we aren't going to win BIG. We will have the routine 7-8 win seasons. And that's fine. But if you want to win anything of importance you have to be able to actually pass the ball.
People content with "being the toughest team that they faced this year" and "bloodying their noses" will not witness an offense that will win anything. You have to throw the ball to win now. Yeah, it's a fact. Running the football with success, averaging 140-150 ypg rushing, is a must. However, this oldschool thought of just running and throwing the deep ball every now and then and "surprising them" with playaction passes...wow.
Alabama's offense is usually not anything special, and this is the reason for it. The defense has always been the saving grace for Alabama, and when Alabama has not won, more often than not, it has been because of an inept passing game. Alabama's career leader in passing yardage is Andrew Zow, with 5,983 yards. Alabama has averaged over 200 yards passing once since 1995. Alabama has only averaged over 200 yards rushing twice since 1995. Yes, that equates to horrible offense. Alabama is in the bottom tier of the SEC offensively the past decade and there has been no sign of improvement, at all.
FORTUNATELY, Alabama's defense has been one of the best the past decade, with 5 of Bama's 10 defenses allowing fewer than 20 pts. per game.
Alabama's offense has averaged 23.6, 24.3, 22.4, 20.9, 29.2, 20.7, 26.5, 28.2, 25.5, and 24.6 points per game since 1995. Is it a coincidence that Bama's two most successful years offensively led to 2 of the 3 SEC West Titles Bama has won in that span? 02 and 99. Hmmm.
The offense dictates what kind of season Alabama has. Alabama's defense is almost always good. The grind it out, smash mouth game does not work anymore. You have to pass at least for over 200 yards per game, a feat Alabama has not accomplished but once since 95.
What is it with Bama?? While teams such as Florida, Tennessee, Georgia, Auburn, LSU have forged ahead with pro style passing attacks that lead to 30+ pt seasons, we remain in the mid-lower tier of the SEC every year points and passing wise.
Until this program learns how to throw the ball we aren't going to win BIG. We will have the routine 7-8 win seasons. And that's fine. But if you want to win anything of importance you have to be able to actually pass the ball.
The 1992 NC game was a pretty big game. How many passing yards did we have? I agree that you need to have balance, but not that you have to have a pass first O to win big.
Whatever works, I'm all for a good running or passing attack. I think a good coach has to recognize what his team's strengths and talents are and mold those particular attributes. I realize that sometimes watching a team run the ball 80-90 % of the time can get boring to a fan but if that's what your team is good at I say don't kick a winning horse. I think it's a thing of beauty when a team can dominate doing either, but there's something more degrading when you lose the line of scrimage to a good running team.
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runtheoption22 said:
OH WOW!! So much so, I might have to leave the forum for a little while. . .I'm stunned.
The coaching staff has brought in some top-notch WR's and Qb's. He better use them if he wants to continue to recruit top-level talent at those positions. We'll always have to be productive in the running game to be really good, but we've just gotta get more balanced. Even in the wishbone days, Coach Bryant made sure that opposing D's couldn't ignore the threat of the pass. Two of our best WR's, Ozzie and Wayne Wheeler were from the wishbone days.
1992 was 13 years ago. Things have changed. The offense I was referring to was not a pass first offense. Just because you have success passing the ball and may be averaging 250-280 yards per game passing does not mean it is a pass first offense.
In order for this type of offense to work you have to run the ball. USC is the perfect, and I do mean PERFECT example. They are a GREAT running team, however, it is overshadowed by their high flying passing game.
How many innovative offensive minds has Alabama had? Franchione was one...Say what you want about him, but he has a great mind for offense, and under the two years he was here Alabama averaged more yards than any other season the previous decade +.
It takes a good offensive mind to score points. Alabama rarely has had a decent offensive coordinator/staff, and the result has been average/below average offense.
In order for this type of offense to work you have to run the ball. USC is the perfect, and I do mean PERFECT example. They are a GREAT running team, however, it is overshadowed by their high flying passing game.
How many innovative offensive minds has Alabama had? Franchione was one...Say what you want about him, but he has a great mind for offense, and under the two years he was here Alabama averaged more yards than any other season the previous decade +.
It takes a good offensive mind to score points. Alabama rarely has had a decent offensive coordinator/staff, and the result has been average/below average offense.
My .02 cents is that it is not about whether we run the ball more or pass the ball more, but the TIMING at which the plays are called and the fundamental execution of the plays.
The term "predictable" has been linked to the play calling of Shula and Rader when it comes to our offense. I certainly think they deserve a pass on the "predictability" of the offensive play selection due to the amount of injuries that we have had over the past two seasons forcing second and third string players into action. But, I am curious to see how "predictable" the playcalling is if we have minimal injuries this year.
It doesn't matter how "diverse" the offense is if you become predictable as to when you're going to run certain plays. Shula/Rader seem to be creatures of habit when it comes to playcalling. They call running plays on certain down and distances and passing plays on others...........and on a very consistent basis. This makes the job of the defense that much easier.
Keeping a defense guessing is what creates opportunities to put points on the board. But it takes a playcaller who can stay one step ahead of the defense to do that. It'll be curious to see how "predictable" or "not predictable" our offensive playcalling is if we have a relatively injury free season.
The term "predictable" has been linked to the play calling of Shula and Rader when it comes to our offense. I certainly think they deserve a pass on the "predictability" of the offensive play selection due to the amount of injuries that we have had over the past two seasons forcing second and third string players into action. But, I am curious to see how "predictable" the playcalling is if we have minimal injuries this year.
It doesn't matter how "diverse" the offense is if you become predictable as to when you're going to run certain plays. Shula/Rader seem to be creatures of habit when it comes to playcalling. They call running plays on certain down and distances and passing plays on others...........and on a very consistent basis. This makes the job of the defense that much easier.
Keeping a defense guessing is what creates opportunities to put points on the board. But it takes a playcaller who can stay one step ahead of the defense to do that. It'll be curious to see how "predictable" or "not predictable" our offensive playcalling is if we have a relatively injury free season.
I agree with everything you said in this post and your above post. In this day and age you've got to have an offense that puts pressure on the defense. Forcing them to defend more than just run right or run left. I to don't think we need a "pass first" offense to succeed. Instead, what we need is to have the ability to pass the ball with the same effectiveness as we run the ball.SaintDeuce said:
I think a lot of our problem is the predictability of our playcalling. We sure don't keep anybody guessing. Nine out of ten times last year if it was 2nd and 1 you could bank on a play action deep sideline pass that rarely worked. Nothing wrong with the attempt or the play selection. But we got in the habit of calling that play on 2nd and short and we weren't fooling anybody or catching them off guard.
"Innovative" is a good word but I also think "timing" is a good one as well. It is not necessarily what play you call but WHEN you call it.
'buzzard, I agree with the need for balance, but don't believe a pass first O will ever "fly" at Bama. Even if the traditionalists would allow it, as I said before, I think there's a very real danger in trying to change too much, and in the process, losing your identity (see the current state of Nebraska Football) I'll reserve judgement on the predictability issue until CMS is able to field a healthy O.
Unless you are overwhelmingly more talented than your opposition, you need to be able to both run and pass competently. If you can't throw it some, you'll see 8 and 9 men in the box constantly, and if you can't run it, the other team will zero in on coverage and pass rush techniques.
Having said that, I don't think that we should be a "run first" offense, at least not to start with. A running game depends on a strong offensive line. I (and most of the posters here) will be most pleasantly surprised if this year's OL is strong from the beginning of the year. We have some very gifted wide receivers and a talented, if injury prone QB. IMO we should start the year playing to that strength, and blend in the running game to keep the defense honest.
It hurts me to say we should be a "pass first" team, because I've always liked teams such as ours in the 70s which ran most of the time, aand just dared the other guys to stop them.
Having said that, I don't think that we should be a "run first" offense, at least not to start with. A running game depends on a strong offensive line. I (and most of the posters here) will be most pleasantly surprised if this year's OL is strong from the beginning of the year. We have some very gifted wide receivers and a talented, if injury prone QB. IMO we should start the year playing to that strength, and blend in the running game to keep the defense honest.
It hurts me to say we should be a "pass first" team, because I've always liked teams such as ours in the 70s which ran most of the time, aand just dared the other guys to stop them.
The thing about Nebraska's ugly, ugly transition was that they were doing the ULTIMATE transition: from a TRUE option offense to a TRUE west coast offense. Bill Callahan loves, LOVES passing the ball in his west coast offense and the emphasis on running the ball is there certainly, but passing is much more important to him. They had an option QB, receivers that were used to blocking, and offensive lineman that were used to annihlating opposing D-linemen instead of sitting back in pass protection. Yeah. Not a great year offensively.
Alabama is an entirely dif. story. We have the personnel for an offense capable of averaging 250-270 yards per game. We would HAVE to run the ball with success, and would probably be running much more than passing.
I keep on going back to USC, but they really are a dynamic example of this offense. They ran much more than passing the ball, and no, it wasn't just because they were always up on opponents. They have a 230 lb back by the name of LenDale White and HUGE offensive lineman. Look what they did to OU! 193 yards and 6.9 yards per carry! Wow. They ran for 322, 278, 197, 186, 210, 216, 235, and 193 yards in games last season. Yeah, they had/have a great smashmouth running game.
However, the KEY to their success offensively and averaging 38 points per game last year was in the passing game. They threw the ball on average 33 times for 272 yards a game. Certainly, they have Matt Leinert, the heisman winner, and that helps. But with this type of balance, 38 rushes, 33 passes, they were able to simply destroy defenses.
This is what Alabama should be looking for offensively. 38-40 rushes a game, 30-32 passes a game. However, the run to pass ratio at Bama has never, EVER been that close. It is almost always 42-49 rushes to 22-26 passes. It is always a run first, run often, and run somemore offense while passing in 3rd and long, obvious play action situation type of offense.
Alabama almost always has a good defense and I truely believe that the key to Alabama's success in the future is a dynamic offense that preaches TRUE balance, not this fake attempt at balance disguised in a Power I Running game offense. In the past decade Bama has averaged more than 200 yards passsing once...when will this trend change?
Alabama is an entirely dif. story. We have the personnel for an offense capable of averaging 250-270 yards per game. We would HAVE to run the ball with success, and would probably be running much more than passing.
I keep on going back to USC, but they really are a dynamic example of this offense. They ran much more than passing the ball, and no, it wasn't just because they were always up on opponents. They have a 230 lb back by the name of LenDale White and HUGE offensive lineman. Look what they did to OU! 193 yards and 6.9 yards per carry! Wow. They ran for 322, 278, 197, 186, 210, 216, 235, and 193 yards in games last season. Yeah, they had/have a great smashmouth running game.
However, the KEY to their success offensively and averaging 38 points per game last year was in the passing game. They threw the ball on average 33 times for 272 yards a game. Certainly, they have Matt Leinert, the heisman winner, and that helps. But with this type of balance, 38 rushes, 33 passes, they were able to simply destroy defenses.
This is what Alabama should be looking for offensively. 38-40 rushes a game, 30-32 passes a game. However, the run to pass ratio at Bama has never, EVER been that close. It is almost always 42-49 rushes to 22-26 passes. It is always a run first, run often, and run somemore offense while passing in 3rd and long, obvious play action situation type of offense.
Alabama almost always has a good defense and I truely believe that the key to Alabama's success in the future is a dynamic offense that preaches TRUE balance, not this fake attempt at balance disguised in a Power I Running game offense. In the past decade Bama has averaged more than 200 yards passsing once...when will this trend change?
how does it makes sense to limit the diversity in your playbook? especially when your level of talent is not completely dominant... which is the case now at BAMA.
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This is a real good point. I hope that we can get to the point were we dont have to trick people , so to speak to win. I'd love to be be like Miami U. They rely on talent and execution to win. Not a thick play book. I love the way the Cowboys of the 90's and Giants with Parcells played. Neither of these teams had thick play books. Jimmy Johnson wasn't a great coach. He had a great eye for talent and was a motivator. He ran the ball at will which set up the passing game. The Cowboys didn't run a lot of different formations with 4 or 5 WR routes in the passing game. Their passing game was slants and outs and teams knew what was coming they just couldn't stop it. Even the Cowboys D back then was simple. They didn't blitz alot.
Last year during pratice, before the season started, I was thinking we were going to be throwing the ball 40 times a game. From what was in the papers it sounded like all we were doing in scrimange was throwing the ball. I was afraid that it would have hurt us when the season started which I was dead wrong.
I prefer a power running game that sets up the pass as a fun and gun type O.
I prefer execution over trickery.
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This is a real good point. I hope that we can get to the point were we dont have to trick people , so to speak to win. I'd love to be be like Miami U. They rely on talent and execution to win. Not a thick play book. I love the way the Cowboys of the 90's and Giants with Parcells played. Neither of these teams had thick play books. Jimmy Johnson wasn't a great coach. He had a great eye for talent and was a motivator. He ran the ball at will which set up the passing game. The Cowboys didn't run a lot of different formations with 4 or 5 WR routes in the passing game. Their passing game was slants and outs and teams knew what was coming they just couldn't stop it. Even the Cowboys D back then was simple. They didn't blitz alot.
Last year during pratice, before the season started, I was thinking we were going to be throwing the ball 40 times a game. From what was in the papers it sounded like all we were doing in scrimange was throwing the ball. I was afraid that it would have hurt us when the season started which I was dead wrong.
I prefer a power running game that sets up the pass as a fun and gun type O.
I prefer execution over trickery.
Your prefer the power running game as a fun and gun type o? What?? The power running game and fun and gun are two completely different offenses.
Also, if you want to talk about Miami, they are another team has been very solid offensively, keeping a balanced approach; last season running the ball 35 times a game and passing 31 times a game. A very polished offense that averaged just under 32 points a game.
Miami runs a pro-style offense. They distribute the ball well to the TE, FB, RB, as well as WRs. they have a power I Running game as well as a single back running game. They aren't as diversified as USC, and thus they do not average as many points as USC nor do they pack the whallop that you know you're going to see with USC. But, nonetheless, they recruit the best players every year and implement those players into the offense well.
They threw the ball 30 times or more 7 times last year, something that is surely frowned upon by the traditionalist Bama fans calling for the trudging, power, tough guy approach. Hopefully this offensive mentality can be overcome.
Also, if you want to talk about Miami, they are another team has been very solid offensively, keeping a balanced approach; last season running the ball 35 times a game and passing 31 times a game. A very polished offense that averaged just under 32 points a game.
Miami runs a pro-style offense. They distribute the ball well to the TE, FB, RB, as well as WRs. they have a power I Running game as well as a single back running game. They aren't as diversified as USC, and thus they do not average as many points as USC nor do they pack the whallop that you know you're going to see with USC. But, nonetheless, they recruit the best players every year and implement those players into the offense well.
They threw the ball 30 times or more 7 times last year, something that is surely frowned upon by the traditionalist Bama fans calling for the trudging, power, tough guy approach. Hopefully this offensive mentality can be overcome.
I'm not for a "pass first" style of offense. I'm for a balanced offense with the playcaller being able to keep from getting into a rut as it seems we have in the past.Crimson Hawk said:
If anyone thinks that bama can go back to old school "Alabama football" and still stay competitive is sadly mistaken in my opinion. Gone are the days where bama can line up and run the ball 75% of the time and hope to god that the other team doesn't force us to pass. Sure, we'll have our games (one or two a year) that we can do that but not many.
SaintDeuce is correct in that we need to get more innovative with our offense. That doesn't necessarily mean throwing the ball all over the place. It just means that we need to be able to pass the ball just as good as we run the ball and not be so predictable in our playcalling. USC over the past few years has been an animal to stop on offense. First they have great talent, but their playcalling and when they call what plays seems to keep the defense guessing. No one has really been able to get a pattern to their offensive approach.
There is no way that someone can sit here and say that giving the defense more to defend is a bad thing. By us implementing a more innovative offense forces the defense to not zero in on one aspect of our game and force them to defend more than just the run. That can only mean success.
I agree that balance is the key.
As you all have stated, USC, Miami, and Oklahoma are perfect examples of this. However, keep an eye on USC this year. Norm Chow is gone. It will be interesting to see if they can duplicate the past few year's success without him.
As you all have stated, USC, Miami, and Oklahoma are perfect examples of this. However, keep an eye on USC this year. Norm Chow is gone. It will be interesting to see if they can duplicate the past few year's success without him.
SaintDeuce said:
I prefer a power running game over a fun and gun type.
When Miami is at their best is when the running game is working well and setting up the pass. Last year the "U" had a down year, for Miami, thus the 30+ in 7.
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