Alabama QB competition article

[crimsonaudio]

I'd have to disagree with that statement. GMac had a few games that were better than Jalen vs. Clemson in 2016.

2009 SECCG says hi.

 

[4Q Basket Case]

Yes, he carried us through most games, but at the same time he became a liability at his position in games as well. Even in games we ultimately won. Jalen hit a developmental wall and the better defenses started taking advantage of it.

Amen on that. Every single team we played in 2017 knew how to defend Jalen. Only a few had the horses to execute, and they gave us fits. Auburn totally outclassed us that day, and Georgia did so in the first 30 minutes. We were really fortunate not to be down more at the half.

I've said here several times, Jalen is the best bet to avoid an upset. But he's a liability against the 2-3 teams on the schedule that we can't just roll. Shoot, most of the teams we play, we could tell them the play beforehand, and we'd still beat them badly. Actually, as I think about it, playing Jalen is almost like telegraphing the play in that the D knows they don't have to worry about a whole bunch of stuff.

That doesn't work quite so well when you're playing championship-caliber teams in the SECCG or the playoff.

I hope Jalen gets to do what he wants to do. But realistically, in all likelihood, being an NFL QB isn't in the cards, no matter how much he may want it. So if he wants to play pro ball, it'll be at another position, and UA is the best place to learn that. If he wants to coach, where better to learn than under the GOAT?

If after finishing college, he wants to do something other than play or coach football, the dilemma comes. Stay at UA and sit, or transfer to any of the 120 or so schools who would love to have him, play out the last two years of eligibility as a starting college QB, and ride off into a non-football career.

Regardless, I hope he achieves his goals, whatever they may be.

 

[Intl.Aperture]

Here's the catch: Jalen came to be taught, to become more than what he is. He didn't come to be an rpo back, he came to learn to be an NFL ready quarterback. He knows his own weaknesses and is trying to address them, I just think a better quarterback (in the mechanical sense) has come along at an inopportune time, at least for him.
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Yah. You're absolutely right.

But something to consider is this. Mike Shanahan was on one of those talk shows speaking candidly about the development of RG3. He said RG3 desperately wanted to develop into a pure drop-back pocket passer. After his 1st season and the injuries RG3 sustained, Robert and Robert's family approached Shanahan and said, "we don't want him to be the style of QB you had him as this season. We want him to a drop-back pocket passer." Shanahan understood that and tried to make it work but the truth, he conceded, is that RG3 just wasn't that type of player, and his whole game had to include read/option elements and the ability to make defenses honest with his feet.

My whole point in bringing this up is that, while Jalen may WANT to be a pro-style drop-back passer, he may not have all the tools to thrive in that sort of system - and to ignore the OTHER tools he has just to focus on trying to make him succeed in that single aspect may be more detrimental to his overall development. Jalen may not be destined to be that kind of Qb and he needs to be ok with that as well. Not saying he isn't, just saying that despite his best wishes, he may not have the goods to do that at a high level and someone else on the team does. It's ok for them to play 2 different types of ball - but the entire offense of a single team likely won't be able to do both very well...although Tua can run the read/option spread just fine as well more than likely.

 

[GrayTide]

I honestly believe anybody who has ever played organized football and understands the elements of being a QB can see that Hurts does not have the skill set to be a pro style QB. Looking back, if the type QB CNS wants is packaged in Tua, why did he recruit Hurts? Did he truly want a DT QB or was he influenced by Kiffin? Questions that don't really matter now, but it appears that Hurts was done a disservice in his recruitment, except for the opportunity to play for CNS. If you want what is best for the team then let's hope they both stay, if you want what is best for the player then no one should begrudge either of them if one transfers.

 

[drwho]

Jalen's issue is less about him not being good and more about Tua just being that much better.

The entire thread in a nutshell. My hat's off to Jalen-he did a great job, and did ALL that he could. His ONLY problem is that Tua is a better quarterback. Not a knock on Jalen, just a fact.

 

[PA Tide Fan]

Some really great analysis on here recently about the QB situation. I definitely agree that Tua's problems are much easier to fix. Watching the play clock, learning to throw the ball away, and not throwing into coverage is something that he'll get much better at with a little bit more experience. I think his performance in the NCG certainly earns him at least one start at QB which is why I'm convinced he gets the start against Louisville. What's the worst that can happen against Louisville with Tua? Well, I'd say he could throw a ball into coverage resulting in a Pick-Six for Louisville but considering we will probably be at least a 3 TD favorite it's something that the team should easily overcome if it happens and still win. It's not like we're playing another national championship contender in the opener where a turnover could be critical.

 

[drwho]

It will be interesting to see what, if any, stats are released from tomorrow's scrimmage.

 

[BamaMoon]

It will be interesting to see what, if any, stats are released from tomorrow's scrimmage.

I wouldn't look for much of anything.

Occasionally, word leaks out, but I wouldn't expect much officially.

 

[bama579]

I honestly believe anybody who has ever played organized football and understands the elements of being a QB can see that Hurts does not have the skill set to be a pro style QB. Looking back, if the type QB CNS wants is packaged in Tua, why did he recruit Hurts? Did he truly want a DT QB or was he influenced by Kiffin? Questions that don't really matter now, but it appears that Hurts was done a disservice in his recruitment, except for the opportunity to play for CNS. If you want what is best for the team then let's hope they both stay, if you want what is best for the player then no one should begrudge either of them if one transfers.

Hurts was signed and on campus a year/season earlier.

Hope to have both Jalen and Tua for the duration of their collegiate careers.

 

[GrayTide]

Hurts was signed and on campus a year/season earlier.

Hope to have both Jalen and Tua for the duration of their collegiate careers.

I understand that Hurts had already played as a freshman when Tua was signed. My point was if CNS wanted a pro style QB why did he recruit Hurts?

 

[B1GTide]

I understand that Hurts had already played as a freshman when Tua was signed. My point was if CNS wanted a pro style QB why did he recruit Hurts?

I think that Saban wanted someone who could run an RPO offense, which is why he brought in Jalen. As it turns out, Jalen has not been good enough at the "P" part of the RPO offense, turning it into a run option offense.

I think that Saban is done with this experiment.

 

[BamaInBham]

I think that Saban wanted someone who could run an RPO offense, which is why he brought in Jalen. As it turns out, Jalen has not been good enough at the "P" part of the RPO offense, turning it into a run option offense.

I think that Saban is done with this experiment.

Agree. Also think that the original idea was to develop Jalen into a pro-style QB. That was explicitly stated. The problem was that Jalen started much more quickly than anyone envisioned, that along with the fact that Kiffin was the OC (who used what he had well, but did not spend much time developing the QB), meant that Jalen's strengths were accentuated and his weaknesses were avoided rather than developed. Thus, Jalen's and Bama's desire to develop him as a passer never materialized as they originally envisioned. But CNS's desire has always been to have a balanced O in the sense of the ability to both run and throw, not that that means there are necessarily the same number of runs as passes.

On another note: I'm a bit surprised at the number of fans who want a 2 QB system of some kind. I doubt that it comes to pass and hope it doesn't. If Tua is the QB the threat of the run and pass are fully in play, with Jalen it is primarily the run, and even the run is primarily him running, which further restricts the ability of the O. Again, with Tua we have the RBs running, QB running and a fully developed passing game, with Jalen it is primarily Jalen running, less RB running and a limited passing game. I.e., there is no real additional threat with Jalen for which a D must prepare. Their focus just becomes more limited with him in the game. IMO, some are overrating Jalen's potential impact.

 

[CaliforniaTide]

I think that Saban wanted someone who could run an RPO offense, which is why he brought in Jalen. As it turns out, Jalen has not been good enough at the "P" part of the RPO offense, turning it into a run option offense.

I think that Saban is done with this experiment.

It wouldn't surprise me part of the experiment was to be able to analyze daily spread concepts to know how to better combat them defensively.

 

[KrAzY3]

I honestly think Hurts was far less of an experiment than some people seem to think. Did Saban want some mobility from the position? Sure, but he actually tried that dating all the way back to Fanuzzi. Tua is mobile as well, but I think it is easy to forget Hurts is actually younger than Tua. In an alternate reality, the guy could be a redshirt freshman this year, he just ended up in a position where he's an 18 year old starting at Alabama. That wasn't the plan though, obviously.

I'm also pretty sure the plan wasn't for Hurts to play under four different offensive coordinators either. I am tempted to say the expectations were for Hurts to develop more as a passer, but on what timeline? He's still a teenager. He never really got a chance to develop for a few years under a stable situation, under someone that knew how to develop QBs. He wanted to develop as a passer, but I don't think he or anyone else expected that to be a quick process. I'd assume that was the hope from the start, to develop over time, and while that ship might have sailed (at Alabama at least, remember he could transfer, sit a year and play two more) it would be pretty rational to hope to develop his passing game over three or four years on campus.

 

[LA4Bama]

I honestly think Hurts was far less of an experiment than some people seem to think. Did Saban want some mobility from the position? Sure, but he actually tried that dating all the way back to Fanuzzi. Tua is mobile as well, but I think it is easy to forget Hurts is actually younger than Tua. In an alternate reality, the guy could be a redshirt freshman this year, he just ended up in a position where he's an 18 year old starting at Alabama. That wasn't the plan though, obviously.

I'm also pretty sure the plan wasn't for Hurts to play under four different offensive coordinators either. I am tempted to say the expectations were for Hurts to develop more as a passer, but on what timeline? He's still a teenager. He never really got a chance to develop for a few years under a stable situation, under someone that knew how to develop QBs. He wanted to develop as a passer, but I don't think he or anyone else expected that to be a quick process. I'd assume that was the hope from the start, to develop over time, and while that ship might have sailed (at Alabama at least, remember he could transfer, sit a year and play two more) it would be pretty rational to hope to develop his passing game over three or four years on campus.

That's interesting; I did not realize Tua is older than Jalen. My goodness, Jalen is unbelievably strong for a 19 year old!

 

[drwho]

I wouldn't look for much of anything.

Occasionally, word leaks out, but I wouldn't expect much officially.

I wasn't expecting anything, just curious what might get out.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

I wasn't expecting anything, just curious what might get out.

All that I’ve seen so far is that Tua had 15-20 reps and did well (accurate etc.)

No rep count on Jalen but he supposedly had a mix of very good throws and very bad throws.

 

[JDCrimson]

It really got messed up when we couldn't get Cooper Bateman elevated to a game managing QB in 2016. So that Jalen could redshirt or just come in situationally. Go along with the fact that Kiffin did virtually nothing to develop the QBs we had.

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[drwho]

It really got messed up when we couldn't get Cooper Bateman elevated to a game managing QB in 2016. So that Jalen could redshirt or just come in situationally. Go along with the fact that Kiffin did virtually nothing to develop the QBs we had.

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Or Barnett . . .

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[Crimson White]

I think Barnett would have had a chance to be the starting qb by year's end in 2016 had he not split too soon.

All's well that ends well, though, if Tagovailoa plays to what most think is tremendous potential. In a kind of meandering way, the fall of the team in 2000, and the subsequent ncaa problems led to St Nick Saban. Wild how things turn out sometimes.