Any Bible scholars here? Can we discuss 2 Samuel 14:14?

[Buckeye Homer]

2 Samuel 14:14 esv
14 We must all die; we are like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again. But God will not take away life, and he devises means so that the banished one will not remain an outcast.

Here's a link to the whole chapter.

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Samuel 14 - English Standard Version

Absalom Returns to Jerusalem - Now Joab the son of Zeruiah knew that the king's heart went out to Absalom. And Joab sent to Tekoa and brought from there a wise woman and said to her, “Pretend to be a mourner and put on mourning garments. Do not anoint yourself with oil, but behave like a woman...

www.biblegateway.com

Notice the word used is "means", as in plural. Christians are taught that faith in Christ, along with living according to God's commandments, saves us from judgment, condemnation, the Lake of Fire, and everlasting death.

However, the verse doesn't say "God devised a mean", it says "means". So, what are the other "means" that God uses so that the banished one does NOT remain an outcast?

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Good topic! We do have some theologians on this board and this invites some interesting conversation to break up the monotony of stale political threads. I hope there is some good participation here. I'll clock in my two cents as well, but I'll need some time to strongly consider the question.

 

[Buckeye Homer]

Good topic! We do have some theologians on this board and this invites some interesting conversation to break up the monotony of stale political threads. I hope there is some good participation here. I'll clock in my two cents as well, but I'll need some time to strongly consider the question.

I think it's an important question and I believe that the answer is good news for ALL people.

 

[Tidewater]

I think it's an important question and I believe that the answer is good news for ALL people.

As with many thing, you have to go back to the original source material. In English, the word "means" is almost always with an "s," as in "ends, ways, and means." I do not take that to mean plural, but I do not read Hebrew.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

It's worse than that. King James' scribes were working from the Greek translation of the original Hebrew written during the Babylonian captivity. You want to see the flakiness of "s" endings, study French...

 

[AWRTR]

I’ll do some research on this, but in context this passage is dealing with David’s son Absalom
being welcomed back into David’s kingdom. The woman speaking in verse 14 is telling a fake story to show David he should forgive his son for killing one of David’s other sons by another mother. I think we have to be careful in how we approach this verse because of the context. It’s not like Isaiah or Jeremiah is saying this.

Without going into the Hebrew it does give a hint of the Gospel when she says, “he devises ways to bring us back when we have been separated from him.” When I put it in the context of David and Absalom’s relationship though it would seem to be more speaking about this life and not eternity/the next life.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I’ll do some research on this, but in context this passage is dealing with David’s son Absalom
being welcomed back into David’s kingdom. The woman speaking in verse 14 is telling a fake story to show David he should forgive his son for killing one of David’s other sons by another mother. I think we have to be careful in how we approach this verse because of the context. It’s not like Isaiah or Jeremiah is saying this.

Without going into the Hebrew it does give a hint of the Gospel when she says, “he devises ways to bring us back when we have been separated from him.” When I put it in the context of David and Absalom’s relationship though it would seem to be more speaking about this life and not eternity/the next life.

Generally, people who are "proof-texting" don't want to be reminded of context...

 

[AWRTR]

Generally, people who are "proof-texting" don't want to be reminded of context...

You’re a bag of laughs.

 

[NationalTitles18]

 

[BamaFlum]

Any time you study the Bible, context is very important. Make sure you look at the three rhetorical devices: audience, message, and speaker also. Is it a prophet that is speaking the words of God? Is it a human working an angle? Etc.

 

[AWRTR]

Any time you study the Bible, context is very important. Make sure you look at the three rhetorical devices: audience, message, and speaker also. Is it a prophet that is speaking the words of God? Is it a human working an angle? Etc.

Well said.

 

[twofbyc]

Well…if I do something, and someone asks me about it, I don’t say it was “mean to an end”.

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[TIDE-HSV]

Well…if I do something, and someone asks me about it, I don’t say it was “mean to an end”.

English Forward

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Translations are just approximations, particularly of an ancient language like Hebrew. Folk who speak only English either forget that or never knew it and therefore see all languages through an English lens...

 

[Padreruf]

I showed amazing self-restraint in staying on the sidelines (LOL). Earl and others handled this incredibly well. Our newest interloper was not interested in serious dialogue, but in a forum on which to pontificate. Context, original languages, type of literature, etc., are all significant aspects of textual interpretation...not to mention the way in which early manuscripts may differ from one another. He had an agenda, albeit limited. I could not stop laughing when you all responded so well...he had no idea as to the type of persons who operate here...

 

[Buckeye Homer]

Well…if I do something, and someone asks me about it, I don’t say it was “mean to an end”.

English Forward

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I was prepared to share other scriptures in order to further Biblical understanding and engender fruitful discussion. Obviously, this is not a community open to such discussion.

 

[Tidewater]

Translations are just approximations, particularly of an ancient language like Hebrew. Folk who speak only English either forget that or never knew it and therefore see all languages through an English lens...

Then why did the prophets write the King James in English?

 

[AWRTR]

Then why did the prophets write the King James in English?

The KJV only crowd is wild to me. The mental hoops you have to jump through to get to that place is quite something. It wasn't even the first English translation.

 

[Tidewater]

The KJV only crowd is wild to me. The mental hoops you have to jump through to get to that place is quite something. It wasn't even the first English translation.

Wait, what?

I do not really read Greek and I only know a few "colorful" phrases of Hebrew from being one of the few goyim at a mostly Jewish school. The kind of Hebrew you would not say to your rabbi.

 

[PaulD]

Then why did the prophets write the King James in English?

I remember my college chaplain at UA telling of when he first used the then-new Revised Standard Version at an Episcopal parish in Birmingham in the early '50s. He got a call that afternoon from one of the dowagers of the church, nearly shaking with rage: "Mr. Woodson, if the 'St. James' version was good enough for Jesus Christ, it ought to be good enough for you!"

Old King James I would have been surprised to know that he'd been canonized!

 

[jthomas666]

The KJV only crowd is wild to me. The mental hoops you have to jump through to get to that place is quite something. It wasn't even the first English translation.

It's called "Controlling the narrative".