Bad News For People Who Hate Good News (economy added 243,000 jobs in January)

MegaVars

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Nov 17, 2002
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Its funny because you act like these things will never run out. The only question is if it will be in our lifetime or not. I'd rather be prepared personally.
I'm not "acting" like anything. I'm not naive, I know that our energy sources we use today will run out some day, but the ideas that are popping up these days for energy sources are, imo, ways of flashpan corporations to get some quick cash and then fold.
 

Bama4Ever831

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Sep 13, 2005
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I'm not "acting" like anything. I'm not naive, I know that our energy sources we use today will run out some day, but the ideas that are popping up these days for energy sources are, imo, ways of flashpan corporations to get some quick cash and then fold.
I'll agree. Some definitely are like the whole ethanol thing....
 

crimsonaudio

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Sep 9, 2002
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I heard the same things in the 60s when cars were lucky to hit 20MPG and spewed lots of pollutants.
Yah, and you know the auto manufacturers are 'holding back' because it would be awful if one of them developed a technology that was light-years ahead of the others. They're probably all in collusion, too.

</sarcasm>

Seriously, auto manufacturing is among the most cut-throat businesses on earth - if there was a chance ANY major auto manufacturer could push the efficiency of their vehicles significantly, don't fool yourself into thinking they'd sit on it because electric and hybrid cars give them the ability to 'slack'.

Fact is, we had gas powered cars in the 80's that are more efficient than most cars on the road today. While the modern internal combustion engine is remarkably efficient, we're building safer and safer (read: heavier and heavier) cars today while trying to push the MPG up. Very tough equation. If you study the efficiency of the modern engine, it's actually quite remarkable.

Sure, there can be improvements, but if you think the auto manufacturers are sleeping on tech because they don't 'have to use it' to meet standards, I'd say you're way off base - if any of them had some tech that allowed a significant improvement in fuel efficiency (that held the same standards wrt reliability, etc) you can believe they would be implementing it ASAP.
 

bama_wayne1

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Jun 15, 2007
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If you want the "leave me alone" approach we can do that, just make sure to be consistent with all other things.... i.e. abortion, gay marriage, etc....
It's my understanding that abortion is legal just not government funded, as for gay marriage, do what you want, I don't have to answer for other people's activities. Just remember when they want kids if they can't manage it on their own don't look to the public for answers.
 

Bamaro

TideFans Legend
Oct 19, 2001
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Jacksonville, Md USA
Yah, and you know the auto manufacturers are 'holding back' because it would be awful if one of them developed a technology that was light-years ahead of the others. They're probably all in collusion, too.

</sarcasm>

Seriously, auto manufacturing is among the most cut-throat businesses on earth - if there was a chance ANY major auto manufacturer could push the efficiency of their vehicles significantly, don't fool yourself into thinking they'd sit on it because electric and hybrid cars give them the ability to 'slack'.

Fact is, we had gas powered cars in the 80's that are more efficient than most cars on the road today. While the modern internal combustion engine is remarkably efficient, we're building safer and safer (read: heavier and heavier) cars today while trying to push the MPG up. Very tough equation. If you study the efficiency of the modern engine, it's actually quite remarkable.

Sure, there can be improvements, but if you think the auto manufacturers are sleeping on tech because they don't 'have to use it' to meet standards, I'd say you're way off base - if any of them had some tech that allowed a significant improvement in fuel efficiency (that held the same standards wrt reliability, etc) you can believe they would be implementing it ASAP.
Not necessarily. Sometimes innovation is expensive. As a manufacturer you dont want to be out there on a limb by yourself trying to sell a better product which cost you a lot of money to develop and manufacture while your competition continues to pump out cheaper products.
 

rizolltizide

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Jan 4, 2003
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Not necessarily. Sometimes innovation is expensive. As a manufacturer you dont want to be out there on a limb by yourself trying to sell a better product which cost you a lot of money to develop and manufacture while your competition continues to pump out cheaper products.
Let's be real, Ro. If GM, or let's say even Toyota, introduced a standard sized vehicle or SUV similar to what is currently available that got 50 miles to the gallon, do you not think they would recoup their R&D in a relatively quick fashion? There would be no competition.
 

crimsonaudio

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Sep 9, 2002
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Not necessarily. Sometimes innovation is expensive. As a manufacturer you dont want to be out there on a limb by yourself trying to sell a better product which cost you a lot of money to develop and manufacture while your competition continues to pump out cheaper products.
I'd suggest you likely aren't very familiar with the auto manufacturing industry. The industry literally THRIVES on that very thing - massive risk on new technology. There is CONSTANT pressure to improve their vehicles in order to encourage folks to upgrade when it's not necessary. Everything from safety to luxury to energy efficiency. Think about the money the auto manufacturers have spent on electric and hybrid tech KNOWING that they would likely never recoup unless they sold extremely well.

The auto industry thrives on the reward from risk, and they are constantly chasing tech that may or may not ever come to fruition (a la Honda's V8 and diesel engines, or many manufacturers' efforts in developing new transmissions 9which tae years and cost astronomical amounts to develop).

The reality is if there is ANYTHING the major auto manufacturers can do that will give them an advantage, especially wrt efficiency, they'll do it.
 

Tide1986

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Nov 22, 2008
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Birmingham, AL

Brown Tax Increase Gains Urgency as California's Deficit Rises to $16 billion


Tax collections have run $3.5 billion below what [Gov. Brown] calculated four months ago. Spending has grown $2 billion above projections...

California, with an economy bigger than Russia’s, lost more than a million jobs in the recession that struck in 2007, costing the most populous U.S. state 24 percent of its revenue. The new deficit estimate increases the urgency of the governor’s plans to increase income taxes on some earners to the highest in the nation, and boost sales levies that are now more than any other state.

Hmmm...California has a $16B budget deficit. Their troubles appear to mirror those of the nation. Will be interesting to see if the tax increases pass, and if they do, how California's economy responds. A $3.5B revenue shortfall is not a good sign.
 
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Bamaro

TideFans Legend
Oct 19, 2001
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Let's be real, Ro. If GM, or let's say even Toyota, introduced a standard sized vehicle or SUV similar to what is currently available that got 50 miles to the gallon, do you not think they would recoup their R&D in a relatively quick fashion? There would be no competition.
Again, it really depends on costs. We are seeing that situation right now with plug in hybrids (i.e. Volt). They have very good costs per mile to drive but the upfront costs are high too.
 

Bamaro

TideFans Legend
Oct 19, 2001
28,816
14,173
287
Jacksonville, Md USA
I'd suggest you likely aren't very familiar with the auto manufacturing industry. The industry literally THRIVES on that very thing - massive risk on new technology. There is CONSTANT pressure to improve their vehicles in order to encourage folks to upgrade when it's not necessary. Everything from safety to luxury to energy efficiency. Think about the money the auto manufacturers have spent on electric and hybrid tech KNOWING that they would likely never recoup unless they sold extremely well.

The auto industry thrives on the reward from risk, and they are constantly chasing tech that may or may not ever come to fruition (a la Honda's V8 and diesel engines, or many manufacturers' efforts in developing new transmissions 9which tae years and cost astronomical amounts to develop).

The reality is if there is ANYTHING the major auto manufacturers can do that will give them an advantage, especially wrt efficiency, they'll do it.
I have no doubt that the internal combustion engine's efficiency can still be improved. I am sure that the manufacturers are actively working on this. My original comment was saying that right now their urgency with this has been mitigated to a degree because battery cars are allowing them to meet CAFE stds for awhile so the urgency with improving the ICE has decreased.
 
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pc2bama

1st Team
Apr 17, 2008
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Brown Tax Increase Gains Urgency as California's Deficit Rises to $16 billion





Hmmm...California has a $16B budget deficit. Their troubles appear to mirror those of the nation. Will be interesting to see if the tax increases pass, and if they do, how California's economy responds. A $3.5B revenue shortfall is not a good sign.
...if a call to increase taxes will pass? In California? Of course it will. The economy will contract even further just like an increase of cost does with just about any item. They could pretend that there are no laws of economics but the economy will react the same either way. Money (i.e. capital) is much like water in that it will find the path of least resistence. CA money is finding less resistence in Texas. I would suspect the exodus of people and capital to continue out of the No-Longer Golden State. The only thing that is golden out there is the lawmakers peeing all over the taxpayers of that state.
 

Tide1986

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Nov 22, 2008
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Birmingham, AL
California is not as liberal as you think it is, and the tax increase probably won't pass.
If I recall correctly, some or all of the possible increases are relegated to ballot measures since the increases were blocked by Republicans in the legislature (some form of super majority, not simple majority, is required to pass tax increases in the legislature).
 

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