Question: Dave Ramsey's Philosophies, Opinions?

Bamabuzzard

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I'm about 60% through Dave Ramsey's latest book Total Money Makeover and was wondering have any of you read his books or watched his show? I never even heard of the guy (I don't watch FoxNews enough I guess) until a buddy of mine let me borrow his book. I began reading it last night and was wondering if any of you had opinions on his teachings?

Thanks- BB
 

Catfish

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I'm about 60% through Dave Ramsey's latest book Total Money Makeover and was wondering have any of you read his books or watched his show? I never even heard of the guy (I don't watch FoxNews enough I guess) until a buddy of mine let me borrow his book. I began reading it last night and was wondering if any of you had opinions on his teachings?

Thanks- BB
I've read some of his stuff and heard his syndicated radio show many times. I think most of his ideas and strategies are spot-on for the average person. Most of them are common sense (no debt- especially credit cards, have an emergency fund, etc.), but his way of explaining them makes them more relatable and evident. Some of his ideas go against conventional wisdom, but he gives his reasoning and it generally seems sound.

Be warned, though. He's a big volunteers fan.
 

BAMAFAN IN NY

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Ive been listening to him on the radio for years. He makes a lot of sense. I was almost through with his "baby steps" before I got divorced and I need to go back through it. If I can remember correctly his steps go something like.

Step 1. Emergency fund... Put 1000 in the bank (even if you have to ignore some bills)

Step 2. The debt snowball... List all your debts from lowest to highest.. Pay the minimum amount on all your bills, and apply every extra penny to your lowest balance. Once that is paid, apply that amount plus the minimum you were paying before to the next lowest debt and keep repeating this until all your debts, except your house, are paid.

Step 3. Fully fund your emergency fund with 3 to 6 months worth of expenses.

Step 4. Save for retirement

Step 5. Pay off the house.

Step 6. Save for kids college if necessary.



Im pretty sure there are other steps but I cant think of them at the moment. His whole deal is to not borrow money ever. And if you absolutely have to borrow money for a house, only do it you can put at least 20% down and your monthly mortgage on a 15 yr fixed rate loan is less than 25% of your take home pay.

Tough stuff that takes a lot of discipline, but if you follow it, you will get out of debt, and start piling up money. I whole heartedly recommend it. If I had a little more discipline I would be doing it right now.
 

Bama323

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I have read a couple of his books, and listened to his show a few times. He makes alot of good points, although I don't entirely agree with everything he says. Basically, he says you should get completely out of debt and live within your means. Pay off the car, the house, the credit cards, etc. That is great advice for what his target audience is, which is people who may be having some financial difficulty.

Where I would disagree with him is that people should be worried about paying off their house quickly. There is nothing wrong with paying off your house, but if you do you are going to lose the tax advantages of being able to deduct mortgage interest, unless you are not paying enough interest for it to matter. That money used to try and pay off the house could be put to better use by saving it in my opinion.
 
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UAME

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I have read a couple of his books, and listened to his show a few times. He makes alot of good points, although I don't entirely agree with everything he says. Basically, he says you should get completely out of debt and live within your means. Pay off the car, the house, the credit cards, etc. That is great advice for what his target audience is, which is people who may be having some financial difficulty.

Where I would disagree with him is that people should be worried about paying off their house quickly. There is nothing wrong with paying off your house, but if you do you are going to lose the tax advantages of being able to deduct mortgage interest, unless you are not paying enough interest for it to matter. That money used to try and pay off the house could be put to better use by saving it in my opinion.
Dave Ramsey's advice and philosophy is as sound as you can find. It is practically a guarantee that if you follow his system, you will be financially set later in life. The problem is that his advice requires a huge amount of self discipline and a postponement of buying all the hotest toys, cars, houses that the credit system will lend you the money to go in debt for. It seems that most people that have found the discipline to follow Dave's plan have first been through a financial catastrophe, and are in a position of starting from rock-bottom. Those people now know that you can "live without" for a while because that has been forced on them. If you can recognize and adopt Dave's plan before financial hardships hit you, then you will be much better off and in a much shorter period of time.

For instance, in the post I quoted above, Dave's opinion about home mortgages is the way to save you the most money, insuring that you pay the absolute minimum amount you can for your home. The 20% down prevents you from having to pay PMI insurance, which is money that you never recover. The "tax advantages" you mention (which are the tax breaks you receive against the INTEREST that you are PAYING) are minuscule compared to the amount of money you would save on a shorter mortgage. All you have to do is look at the $ amount of interest that you will pay to the bank over the course of a 30 year loan. Then, look at the $ amount of interest paid on a 15 year loan. Subtract the difference (which would be the money you avoid paying the bank) and then calculate what that money would earn you over those second 15 years if you had it invested in a mutual fund. Even a very, very conservative growth (profit) due to a slow stock market would still blow those "tax advantages" out of the water.

Much of Dave's advice has to be understood within the framework of his entire financial philosophy. Take life insurance: you will hear Dave say that the ONLY life insurance he approves is "term life." Term life means that you pay the insurance company for a policy worth $X for a term of so many years (20 years is a typical term.) How it works is that at the end of the term (20 years) if you haven't died, the insurance company owes you nothing. Your policy is over and both you and the insurance company walk away from the deal. If you are young, you can buy term life dirt cheap. On "whole life" insurance, you pay higher premiums, but the policy builds "cash value" over its life (which means that the insurance company invests your monthly payments for all those years, earning 10%-15% on them, then pays you back a tiny fraction of those profits when its over.) It's pretty clear to see why Dave would recommend you keep that money earning for you, rather than giving it to the insurance company. However, self-discipline again is a key part of Dave's plan: to use term life properly, you need to be "self-insured" by the time the term expires. That means you have a savings/retirement plan that you funnel your money into so that you have enough saved to support your family in the event of your death. If you only take half of Dave's advice and buy the cheap term insurance, but then blow the money you are saving in insurance premiums, then you will be in serious trouble at age 55 or 60 when your term insurance expires. You won't have enough saved to provide for your family, and (if you can even qualify) the premiums for a new life insurance policy will be too expensive.

My point is you can trust Ramsey's plan, but you'd better jump completely in and follow his entire model for personal finances. If you try to pick out the bits and pieces that sound good (i.e., "term life is cheaper than whole life") without understanding all the implications, then you might find yourself in trouble.
 

Bamabuzzard

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The problem is that his advice requires a huge amount of self discipline and a postponement of buying all the hotest toys, cars, houses that the credit system will lend you the money to go in debt for.
People call this a "problem" in his system but it is not a "problem" with his system it is just a law of nature if you ask me. Kind of hard to get around it.
 

BigTex

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He is excellent. I have read some of his stuff and even took a class at my church that he authored. Someone said here that his way requires a lot of discipline. And they are correct !! The class is called " Financial Peace " I believe. If you get a chance to take it , go for it...
 

Bamabuzzard

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He is excellent. I have read some of his stuff and even took a class at my church that he authored. Someone said here that his way requires a lot of discipline. And they are correct !! The class is called " Financial Peace " I believe. If you get a chance to take it , go for it...
One message I've gotten so far out of the book I'm reading (that he harps on through the book) is there is no such thing as "good debt". And that people make the grave mistake of "playing games" with debt to try to get financially ahead and the overwhelmingly majority not only fail but put themselves in a financial crisis by doing so.
 

bamanut_aj

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I started listening to him about 10 - 12 years ago when he started his local talk show up here on 99.7 WWTN. A few years later, I read his book "Financial Peace". I've even gone to one of his seminars; not just a church offering the class. He's "been there" so you can't help but listen to him.....what he put himself through is so common these days it's ridiculous. He also dug himself out and the way he did is what he teaches. I absolutely love his philosophy and strategy. I don't follow all of it (my wife and I both have truck payments), but we do everything we can to cut expenses and basically live within our means. Common sense stuff.
 

Bamabuzzard

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I started listening to him about 10 - 12 years ago when he started his local talk show up here on 99.7 WWTN. A few years later, I read his book "Financial Peace". I've even gone to one of his seminars; not just a church offering the class. He's "been there" so you can't help but listen to him.....what he put himself through is so common these days it's ridiculous. He also dug himself out and the way he did is what he teaches. I absolutely love his philosophy and strategy. I don't follow all of it (my wife and I both have truck payments), but we do everything we can to cut expenses and basically live within our means. Common sense stuff.
We're in NO WHERE NEEEEAR the mess any of the people in his book were and really aren't "in a mess". But we definitely can do better with our finances. I like and agree with a lot of what he's said so far and have already implemented several things. I'm excited about seeing what we can do with his advice.
 

bamanut_aj

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We're in NO WHERE NEEEEAR the mess any of the people in his book were and really aren't "in a mess". But we definitely can do better with our finances. I like and agree with a lot of what he's said so far and have already implemented several things. I'm excited about seeing what we can do with his advice.
same here. I've heard people call in who are 25,000 dollars or more in debit JUST ON CREDIT CARDS! Not mention their mortgage, car notes, etc. I'm thankful that we are where we are, but like you, we could do better. We don't use the 'cash only' basis, and there are times that dammit, we just don't feel like cooking so we go eat. We are by NO MEANS Dave Ramsey teetotal'ers.
 

Bamabuzzard

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same here. I've heard people call in who are 25,000 dollars or more in debit JUST ON CREDIT CARDS! Not mention their mortgage, car notes, etc. I'm thankful that we are where we are, but like you, we could do better.

As I was reading some of these people's stories I was amazed at the credit card debt many had accumulated. Yeah, "$25,000+" was very common in many of those examples of credit card debt. I understand why extreme measures such as immediately selling the house, getting a second job etc. had to be done. These people had this debt PLUS car notes, house note, student loans, you name it. Good night alive!!!

But all buckled down and are now in wonderful financial position and are seemingly stress free from a financial perspective (because we all know life is never going to be stress free). I congratulate them all. Great job.
 

UAME

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Notice I didn't say there was a problem with Dave's system - there's just a problem within our society that we expect to have all we've ever had growing up + more, we don't like the feeling that our peers have better things than we do, etc.

My wife and I are graduates of FPU at our church. We have never been 100% on Dave's plan, but we have paid off all our debt and my wife has been able to quit her job to raise our 3 kids (ages 6, 3, and 18 months). There's no way we have anywhere close to 6 months expenses saved in funds we could liquidate quickly, but Dave's plan has us much better off than we were. Like was mentioned, we still eat out too much and we're about to take a vacation that we really can't afford - but, it won't be lingering on the credit card when we get home.

About 2 years ago, my son was in ICU about 2 weeks, and out of about $100k in medical bills, we were left with about $6k to pay out of our own pockets. Dave's principles had us in a position to absorb that, even though it was a huge blow. We haven't been on a trip since, and we finally reached the point where we've said, "To heck with it, we need a break!"
 

Bodhisattva

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It's a sad commentary that people can make millions peddling common sense to the public. Accumulate equity, not debt. Revolutionary!

I know more people than I can count who have six figure incomes .... and the debt to go along with it. They act as if the sole purpose of their income is to expand their debt base. They buy more crap that any human should be allowed to own. After years and years of $100,000+ income they still live paycheck to paycheck. Stupid.
 

Bamabuzzard

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It's a sad commentary that people can make millions peddling common sense to the public. Accumulate equity, not debt. Revolutionary!
I know more people than I can count who have six figure incomes .... and the debt to go along with it. They act as if the sole purpose of their income is to expand their debt base. They buy more crap that any human should be allowed to own. After years and years of $100,000+ income they still live paycheck to paycheck. Stupid.

He admits nothing in his book is "his" creation. But "common sense" principles that have been around for years. He just packages in a way that a lot of people "get" and he admits that throughout the book.

But remember the thing about "commone sense".....It ain't too "common". :)

But I do agree with what you're saying. I have a friend that makes $125K/year and who's wife is a RN and they live paycheck to paycheck. They buy too much junk overspend on everything.
 
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Bodhisattva

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He admits nothing in his book is "his" creation. But "common sense" principles that have been around for years. He just packages in a way that a lot of people "get" and he admits that throughout the book.
I'm certainly not slamming Ramsey. The public on the other hand ...

But remember the thing about "commone sense".....It ain't too "common". :)
Common sense sure seems to be a scarce resource.
 

Bamaro

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Dave Ramsey's advice and philosophy is as sound as you can find. It is practically a guarantee that if you follow his system, you will be financially set later in life. The problem is that his advice requires a huge amount of self discipline and a postponement of buying all the hotest toys, cars, houses that the credit system will lend you the money to go in debt for.
You sure got that right. In this I want it, I want it NOW, and I want more of it society that we have people will find that impossible to follow.
 

Bodhisattva

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But I do agree with what you're saying. I have a friend that makes $125K/year and who's wife is a RN and they live paycheck to paycheck. They buy too much junk overspend on everything.
I knew this couple - she's an attorney and he's a financial manager (insert comments re: irony) - and their intelligence is inversely related to their income level. They live in the relatively low cost area of Virginia Beach and have no children. However, the more they make the worse acquisitions they'd accumulate. They have massive house, several expensive German cars, a yacht, country club membership, etc.

If one can afford it - great. Work hard and enjoy life. Well, they have virtually no furniture in their house. They only drive one car because they can't afford the insurance on the others. They live in a very nice neighborhood, but their house from the outside pales in comparison because they've never been able to afford to maintain their landscaping. They never use the yacht; neither of them knows how to pilot it. Neither plays golf, so the country club membership is useless.

All they have is for appearances. If they'd dial things back just a little they could enjoy all they have. They have this keeping-up-with-the-Joneses mentality that is beyond stupid. And I doubt the people they are trying to impress even give them a second thought.