feelings toward Bill Oliver

[TIDE-HSV]

PTB jilted Bowden at the alter and hired Curry.

Not correct...

 

[Whammer Jammer]

There is a better chance of Auburn winning a NC than Coach Oliver coming back...can you imagine Oliver and Saban.

Now that said, if CNS wanted him on his staff he would be welcome with open arms and embraced by Bama Fans.

 

[thunderz7]

Not correct...

Bowden "thought" he was at the alter when he came to T-town.
But, he let his ego get the best of his life-long dream.
PTB wanted an interview,
Bowden's ego wouldn't allow an interview.

Technically, one could say Bowden left T-town for t-town, with his feelings hurt.
If the PTB had kissed-up to Bobby,
Bowden would have jumped at the chance to be at Bama,
we could now be the dirtiest team in college football,
and wouldn't have had to worry with the ncaa,
at least not until BB retired.

What a trade off, infractions immunity for thug-ball!

Wonder if widdle Terry woud have take the Barn job with Diddy at Bama?

T7

 

[TIDE-HSV]

The problem is that by defining "PTB" the way you have, you've grossly oversimplified a terribly convoluted chain of events. In each of the events you've set out, the actual actors have shifted back and forth among the BOT, the Prez and the AD. There is no PTB which acts with a single mind and single purpose. The balance of power, if you will, has shifted from time to time. One constant I've noticed over the years is a consistent over-estimation by the public of the power exercised by the BOT (and its members). It's a truism to say that one component or another (more the AD and Prez) has made bad decisions at almost every fork in the road. What's incorrect is to assume that there's some shadowy "PTB" body which has acted together. Nothing could be further from the truth. You may as well go on and define the PTB as including Tom Culpepper and certain "rogue" boosters, since those individuals have played as big a part in our woes as the people you've included. (I can tell you like a good conspiracy theory. Now, you'll be convinced I'm one of them.)

 

[thunderz7]

The problem is that by defining "PTB" the way you have, you've grossly oversimplified a terribly convoluted chain of events. In each of the events you've set out, the actual actors have shifted back and forth among the BOT, the Prez and the AD. There is no PTB which acts with a single mind and single purpose. The balance of power, if you will, has shifted from time to time. One constant I've noticed over the years is a consistent over-estimation by the public of the power exercised by the BOT (and its members). What's incorrect is to assume that there's some shadowy "PTB" body which has acted together. Nothing could be further from the truth. You may as well go on and define the PTB as including Tom Culpepper and certain "rogue" boosters, since those individuals have played as big a part in our woes as the people you've included. (I can tell you like a good conspiracy theory. Now, you'll be convinced I'm one of them.)

I do believe in "some" conspiracies,
but I doubt you are one of "them",
certainly no Culpepper

I don't think of the PTB as a "body which has acted together" with "single mind and single purpose", totally the opposite, never acting as a body, always pulling in too many directions.
I hope that is changed with this last hire.

Yes, the players in the game shift and change, Joab Thomas was a factor in the earlier events I mentioned but gone by the middle.

Some ADs have had more power than others.
My own perception is that, on one end of the spectrum, Hootie had a lot of control, whereas on the other end,
again my opion,
Mal has had much less control.
Any others falling somewhere in between.

You said - "It's a truism to say that one component or another (more the AD and Prez) has made bad decisions at almost every fork in the road."

This appars to be our point of agreement, sorry if I gouged one of the tender spots, :biggrin2:

Shalom T7

 

[LCN]

Exactly . His "ptb" makes a lot of it wrong . In the right area code but , not on the correct street .

 

[dvldog]

All you guys w/feelings for Bill Oliver pls keep it to yourselves. This is a family friendly board.:biggrin2:

 

[TIDE-HSV]

It's closer, now that he's defined it a bit.

 

[Dixiedawg]

Do any of you have an ill feelings toward Bro Oliver for leaving us & going to Auburn - If age wasn't a factor would you welcome him back

I would have a hard time embracing someone who left us for Auburn in this day and age. I would not have a problem with a coach with Auburn ties (don't we have one) just with one that would leave Bama to go to THE hated rival

Didn't Mal leave and go to Notre Dame for a while..?

I know Bro Oliver was well loved just wonder if all is forgiven


MODS: If you think this is pot stirring or cotroversial delete it, thanks

Mal was at Notre Dame after losing his job at the Capstone during one of the many coaching changes. Coach Oliver went to Auburn because he was passed over in Tuscaloosa, after we ran CGS off and it was a way for him to become part of the retirement system in the state. He was/is a defensive masterrmind and was highly coveted by Steve Spurrier and if those two had teamed the Gators would have been invincible and probably won the SUPER BOWL after laying waste to the college football community.

 

[4Q Basket Case]

Like the old Confederate Railroad song says "When you leave that way you can never go back".

Crimson Legacy, LCN and Confederate Railroad got it right.

I don't have the mean-on for Oliver that I do Gene Jelks, Tom Culpepper, Roy Kramer and Rick Johannigmeier. And you can't ignore his greatness as a DB coach and DC.

But he also did some things you just can't forget. Tried to effect a coup against Stallings. Then, when that didn't work out, went to the rival (bad enough in and of itself). But then he compounded an already bad situation and said he never was an Alabama man, and always wanted the Auburn job.

I wouldn't turn him away at the front door, but I'd watch the silverware every instant he was in the house.

 

[BamaLaw]

...Coach Stallings was run off by the same people that caused Coach Fran to flee ie Randy Ross and others.

First of all, where do you get your information regarding Randy Ross's part in anyone being run off?

Stallings was run off by one person and one person only...Bob Bockrath.

Bockrath wasn't even around during Fran's brief stay at UA.

In what way was Ross supposed to have been involved in either of these men leaving? I've seen Randy accused on this board of everything except the war in Iraq; however, I've never seen or heard anyone back their accusations up with any sort of substance. Randy is a fine man who genuinely loved/loves The University of Alabama. Fortunately for him, he has landed at SMU in a similar, if not identical position to the one he last held at Alabama. Without some sort of evidence to substantiate your accusations, I'll never believe that Ross ever had a hand in any such coup.

 

[jthomas666]

I was on campus during Bryant-Perkins-Curry-Stallings; here's what it looked like from my perspective.

Bryant brought in Perk, many say he left for money;(wrong) Perk took a pay cut to come to Bama.

PTB would not get behing Perk with anywhere near the facilities upgrades he wanted, everyone wanted a voice, too many hands in the pot, too many knives in the back.

All of this may well be true; my guess is that Perkins just couldn't fill the void in the AD's office left by Bryant, and all of Bear's boys started trying to grab a little power for themselves. And right there were sown the seeds of discontent that caused the bulk of our woes ever since.

The fact remains, though, that Hugh Culverhouse offered such a sweet deal that even if Perkins did have the full support of TPTB, even if he had managed to collect all the various reins of power, he'd still have been an idiot to pass up the Bucs job. And just to sweeten the deal, Culverhouse then dropped a few million on C&BA.

PTB jilted Bowden at the alter and hired Curry. (I despise Bowden, but not making that hire was a BIG mistake)

You already mentioned how Bowden's ego got involved. I also think Joab had a sincere belief that he needed to make a statement that football was not the be-all end-all for the University. Keep in mind that the decision was made while the whole Brent Fullwood fiasco was fresh in the news.

In the end, Curry turned out to be little more than a facade. He did well enough due to the Bama name and because he did have a hell of a staff, but he could never quite make the job his own, and he finally fell victim to his own insecurities. I do wonder who else besides Curry and Bowden were in the mix.

I also think Steve Sloan was not a strong enough AD to effectively shield Curry in the first few years. It might not have mattered in the end, but who knows.

PTB ran off Oliver and Stallings.

Hootie made a verbal agreement w/ Oliver, but then Hootie got the boot. There's no reason to expect a new AD to live up to a verbal agreement by his predecessor--particularly one who lost his job due to NCAA violations. Oliver just got impatient. All he had to do was wait a couple of more years. You can't blame Oliver's defection on TPTB.

Bockrath ran off Stallings, just one of the many, many, many stupid decisions that marked his tenure at AD. It might have been justified if there had been a viable replacement already lined up, but as we all know . . .

PTB had a son named Mike (it didn't work)

Just a bad decision. Period.

Fran was a good coach (not much of a man)
But the PTB never told him the truth.

I've never bought this argument. Fran was given all the info that was available. No one could have predicted the travesty that was the NCAA's ruling. Fran just didn't have the guts to stick with Bama through reconstruction.

PTB had a friend named Mike (it didn't work)

Like the previous Mike, just a bad decision.

PTB had a grandson named Mike (it didn't work)

I still think Shula was the right choice at that time. Everyone knew that there was a chance he just wouldn't turn out to be HC material from the very beginning.

I can only hope the PTB are all finally on the same page,
holster their daggers, and get out of the way.

They're not, they haven't, and they won't, and that is why you will be hearing about some major changes within the AD over the next several months, finally clearing out those guys who managed to grab just a little bit of power all those years ago.

 

[thunderz7]

Thanks JThomas

I 'll keep an eye on it.

have a good un
T7

 

[OldNavyTider]

Dixiedog I agree with you. One reason Brother Bill went to Auburn was to stay eligible in the state of Alabama retirement system. I don't look down upon anyone to do what they have to do to qualify for a retirement after they worked their butt off to get it.

So he went to Auburn for a few years....big deal, there's greater things in this world to worry with and he doesn't have a problem speaking his mind and letting people know where his heart truly is, that being at the University of Alabama. I believe Gene Stallings to be a good man and I'm very thankful for what he accomplished at Alabama. However, I admire Bill Oliver's honesty; he doesn't have a problem saying that he and Gene Stallings are not friends.

Brother Bill: Thank you for being part of five National Championships at Alabama. One as a player and four as an assistant. Your defensive game plans in the 1979 and 1992 Sugar Bowls shut down two good offensive football teams. Bill Oliver was not the defensive coordinator in 1978, however he put in the defensive game plan for the 1979 Sugar Bowl.

 

[BAMARICH]

Not going to try to start any kind of firestorm with those who admire XCBO... but I am not sold that he should get all the credit for all great defenses in his tenure. He did, after all, have a lot of help and some of those other guys are still very much overlooked for what they brought to the table... especially one who ultimately was selected to be one of our HC's.

 

[Tide Tales]

Not going to try to start any kind of firestorm with those who admire XCBO... but I am not sold that he should get all the credit for all great defenses in his tenure. He did, after all, have a lot of help and some of those other guys are still very much overlooked for what they brought to the table... especially one who ultimately was selected to be one of our HC's.

And this is the reason exactly why CPB's "anything wrong, my fault; anything right-they did it" is genius.....still! Only a few really 'get it'! Roll Tide!:BigA:

 

[OldNavyTider]

Oh but I do get it. CPB also said in the past to surround yourself with talent. He did just that. Bill Oliver was and is a talented assistant football coach.

CBO was and is no saint but he knows how to coach a defense that can win championships. Wonder why the Old Ball Coach (CSS) wanted his services at USC?

 

[CrimsonLegacy]

Not going to try to start any kind of firestorm with those who admire XCBO... but I am not sold that he should get all the credit for all great defenses in his tenure. He did, after all, have a lot of help and some of those other guys are still very much overlooked for what they brought to the table... especially one who ultimately was selected to be one of our HC's.

I agree with you.Although CBO gets all the credit for those great defenses I don't know if he deserves 100% of the praise. Remember CGS was the HC and I'm sure he had a lot to do with the defenses success.JMHO:BigA:

 

[uaintn]

Pretty good defensive coach. Seems to have been up to something behind Eugene's back. Traitor. Barner. Don't like him.

 

[Tide Tales]

Knew I had recently read of some history on CBO....("Career in Crisis" by John David Briley.) "Oliver was a former Alabama player who had played on the 1961 national championship team. The former defensive back from Livingston, Alabama, had coached football in the high school ranks for three years before joining arch-rival AU in 1966 for the next five seasons. In January 1971, the Bear called him back home and he willingly obliged his former head coach and mentor. Delbert Reed, sports editor of the Tuscaloosa News, would comment some thirty years later, "Bill Oliver was the best assistant coach I ever saw at the University of Alabama." He was in charge of defensive backs.
So he already had nearly 30 years in the education system, if not more, when he returned to the Barn. I appreciate his contributions to the university and the fb team, but I'm unsure if "retirement in the system" was the reason or the justification behind the decision to return to Auburn.
Alabama has more than enough experience promoting assistants to HC without success, so not convinced CBO would have been a successful HC. It is also entirely possible that he was motivated by anger rather than "retirement" reasons. Sometimes the hardest lesson to learn is realizing that one's abilities in one job do not automatically match one's aspirations. Roll Tide!:BigA: