Politics: General Removal of Statues Thread

[Ldlane]

This is taking things to a very silly extreme.

The University has crossed sabers, and the mascot is the Cavalier, from the English Civil War. The sabers had finger grips, but somebody (and here I honestly think somebody is taking the **** just to see if the University is so stupid that they were willing to take this matter seriously; they were that stupid) alleged that the finger grips on the sword handles was a reflection of the serpentine walls built on the Grounds (UVa's word for "campus") so that students would not have to see and hear slaves who worked on the Grounds. Of course, students who come from a slave society would not be offended by hearing or seeing slaves. They had probably seen lots of slaves in their lives, but whatever.
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Literally, you can hardly see the ripples on the handles, but anyone who knows the slightest bit about swords would know that sword handles often have finger grooves so the soldier carrying the sword can hold onto the thing.
A closeup of an 1850 Staff and Field officers sword will show that grooves on the handle are not uncommon.
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Maybe a better response would be to get rid of the serpentine walls. Or maybe get rid of the university? Jefferson founded the darn thing and we all know what he was famous for.
I honestly believe some student was trying to see if the university would uncritically accept their complaint and comply. The answer is, yes.
We have reached a particularly silly place.

Colonial history is falling.

 

[Tidewater]

It goes both ways.

Which is why MLK's standard is more important now than it ever was:
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."
Nobody is good or bad because of the color of their skin and anyone who judges by the color of the skin is a pea wit. We should just thank them to letting us know that they are a pea wit.

 

[Ldlane]

Rhodes Must Fall - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

Exactly.

 

[Tidewater]

Colonial history is falling.

Honestly, I would expect more debate over evidently taking the side of the Crown over Parliament in the English Civil War, but I doubt many people in these United States could tell which side was which in the English Civil War.

The bigger issue is those gawdawful colors. I mean who in their right minds would adopt blue and orange as the school colors?

 

[Ldlane]

Honestly, I would expect more debate over evidently taking the side of the Crown over Parliament in the English Civil War, but I doubt many people in these United States could tell which side was which in the English Civil War.

The bigger issue is those gawdawful colors. I mean who in their right minds would adopt blue and orange as the school colors?

What if they changed to the Roundheads?

 

[Tidewater]

What if they changed to the Roundheads?

That might be an improvement.
Although, Cromwell was a bit of a nasty fellow.
Better to go with an innocuous mascot, like "the daisies." The UVa daisies. a name that strikes terror in the hearts of the opponents.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

That might be an improvement.
Although, Cromwell was a bit of a nasty fellow.
Better to go with an innocuous mascot, like "the daisies." The UVa daisies. a name that strikes terror in the hearts of the opponents.

You may find this hard to believe, but, when I was at NYU, they still played basketball and won the conference. They dropped it for a long time but are playing again now. Their name back then was "Raging Violets." Now, they're just the "Violets"...

 

[TIDE-HSV]

You know, in one way, I sort of wish Americans were historically-conscious enough to be anti-colonialism and participate in an anti-colonial movement. However, I don't believe it...

 

[NationalTitles18]

You know, in one way, I sort of wish Americans were historically-conscious enough to be anti-colonialism and participate in an anti-colonial movement. However, I don't believe it...

History is schools is too watered down and sanitized. It's bland and often times useless in the way it's presented. My HS history teachers seemed to not care much about teaching it. I wish it were different.

 

[Tug Tide]

History is schools is too watered down and sanitized. It's bland and often times useless in the way it's presented. My HS history teachers seemed to not care much about teaching it. I wish it were different.

Couldn’t agree more. History needs to be taught accurately and well.

 

[Padreruf]

History is incredibly exciting if taught well...

 

[Ldlane]

You know, in one way, I sort of wish Americans were historically-conscious enough to be anti-colonialism and participate in an anti-colonial movement. However, I don't believe it...

I don't believe that it is our job to be "anti" anything. It's my job to teach kids how to think and not what to think. Otherwise, it's nothing more than indoctrination. Kids come from home with their own political socialization, we are taught to challenge that with fact and inquiry. But they need to form their own opinions based on that inquiry.


Counter that with what's happening in the University system where they are teaching in Latino Studies that they be protesting for reparations. This is from a friend that goes to UNM.

 

[B1GTide]

I don't believe that it is our job to be "anti" anything. It's my job to teach kids how to think and not what to think. Otherwise, it's nothing more than indoctrination. Counter that with what's happening in the University system where they are teaching in Latino Studies that they be protesting for reparations. This is from a friend that goes to UNM.

Amen - same for parents. Teach them to think for themselves and the world is their oyster.

 

[Ldlane]

One thing that we do not do is we do not teach students to look through "Historical Lenses" of the people that were living at the time so that they can understand their actions. I mean, if we get down to it, it can be argued that every war until maybe WWII, including the Revolution was fought for "White Supremacy". I mean at the time of the Civil War, unless you were a Quaker, you were probably a "racist".

 

[Im_on_dsp]

One thing that we do not do is we do not teach students to look through "Historical Lenses" of the people that were living at the time so that they can understand their actions.

Human history is littered with people doing things to others that we would clearly see today as abhorrent. Do we really need to look back at those past actions and demand retribution/apologies from anyone whose relatives, or even just the same color skin, that took part in it? Those people are long dead. Why don't we just teach people to recognize what happened, why it may have happened, and hopefully it will lead us to be better as a society going forward.

 

[Ldlane]

Human history is littered with people doing things to others that we would clearly see today as abhorrent. Do we really need to look back at those past actions and demand retribution/apologies from anyone whose relatives, or even just the same color skin, that took part in it? Those people are long dead. Why don't we just teach people to recognize what happened, why it may have happened, and hopefully it will lead us to be better as a society going forward.

That's what I said.

 

[B1GTide]

One thing that we do not do is we do not teach students to look through "Historical Lenses" of the people that were living at the time so that they can understand their actions. I mean, if we get down to it, it can be argued that every war until maybe WWII, including the Revolution was fought for "White Supremacy". I mean at the time of the Civil War, unless you were a Quaker, you were probably a "racist".

As long as understanding the actions does not translate to excusing it. In the past, that is what we have done - excused the abhorrent behavior of people who knew better just because everyone in that period of history was accepting of the behavior. "Everyone was a racist" does not excuse slavery. It explains it, but does not excuse it. It was possible because the people of that time were horrible people, by and large. Life was almost meaningless, and suffering was a part of that short life. So the diminsment of the lives and suffering of those deemed "less" can be understood. But it was still abhorrent.

 

[Tidewater]

One thing that we do not do is we do not teach students to look through "Historical Lenses" of the people that were living at the time so that they can understand their actions. I mean, if we get down to it, it can be argued that every war until maybe WWII, including the Revolution was fought for "White Supremacy". I mean at the time of the Civil War, unless you were a Quaker, you were probably a "racist".

L. P. Hartley wrote, "The past is like a foreign country. They do things differently there."

 

[Ldlane]

As long as understanding the actions does not translate to excusing it. In the past, that is what we have done - excused the abhorrent behavior of people who knew better just because everyone in that period of history was accepting of the behavior. "Everyone was a racist" does not excuse slavery. It explains it, but does not excuse it. It was possible because the people of that time were horrible people, by and large. Life was almost meaningless, and suffering was a part of that short life. So the diminsment of the lives and suffering of those deemed "less" can be understood. But it was still abhorrent.

I believe that is where you taking the learning that you have helps you make your own opinions about the past and how it ties to the current life. That is the purpose of teaching one how to think through "inquiry" and not just presenting facts in logical sequence. It's not the instructor's job to tell you that these people were "terrible people, and these were the "good guys". This is where practice has to get away from me as a teacher "filling an empty cup" by giving you notes, and facts. Methodology has also failed us in the instruction of History.

 

[bama_wayne1]

No matter the cause, it is foolish to erase your history. Remembering your mistakes helps us no to make them again. Remembering our hard fought victories gives us the strength to withstand the next test.