German and French Governments Collapse

[Its On A Slab]

It just illustrates the dynamics of a multi-party state. Israel, Italy (and others) have seen the same problems with trying to manage unstable coalition governments.

Let's say we have a bleed-off of progressives here to the Greens, and a bleed-off of libertarians from the Republicans. And the GOP and Democrats remain minor parties with the other two. And no party gets a majority in the election. Coalitions will have to form, and the disagreements will ensue. It's just part of the way that type of system works(or doesn't work).

 

[Isaiah 63:1]

It just illustrates the dynamics of a multi-party state. Israel, Italy (and others) have seen the same problems with trying to manage unstable coalition governments...

Yep. Games with two players tend to a more stable equilibrium than games with more players...

 

[crimsonaudio]

It just illustrates the dynamics of a multi-party state. Israel, Italy (and others) have seen the same problems with trying to manage unstable coalition governments.

Let's say we have a bleed-off of progressives here to the Greens, and a bleed-off of libertarians from the Republicans. And the GOP and Democrats remain minor parties with the other two. And no party gets a majority in the election. Coalitions will have to form, and the disagreements will ensue. It's just part of the way that type of system works(or doesn't work).

Seems like it keep the extremes from dictating policy better than the two party system.

 

[Its On A Slab]

Yep. Games with two players tend to a more stable equilibrium than games with more players...

And government would collapse if one party takes his ball and goes home. Italy is a good example. How many govt's have they had since WW2? (69 according to the Google monster. An average of one every 1.11 years!)

And the dissension among the ranks of kissing too much behinds to keep the peace.

 

[Tidewater]

Thank you, though I don't understand the reasoning for the separation of powers between the president and PM.

The simple reason is Charles de Gaulle.
The 4th Republic was a bit of a mess. De Gaulle agreed to serve as president in a Fifth Republic, but, unlike other parliamentary democracies, de Gaulle was not going to be some figurehead. He demanded real power, even if he did not want to get involved in the sausage-making of real governing. So, the Gaullists developed this system (the 5th Republic) and got the voters to approve it.
The French President has broad policy-masking powers, but the day-to-day work of governing and enacting legislation is the job of the PM.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

The simple reason is Charles de Gaulle.
The 4th Republic was a bit of a mess. De Gaulle agreed to serve as president in a Fifth Republic, but, unlike other parliamentary democracies, de Gaulle was not going to be some figurehead. He demanded real power, even if he did not want to get involved in the sausage-making of real governing. So, the Gaullists developed this system (the 5th Republic) and got the voters to approve it.
The French President has broad policy-masking powers, but the day-to-day work of governing and enacting legislation is the job of the PM.

I'd add that it was almost a desperation situation. The French government had become unstable because of the number of parties. CDG presented himself as the "savior of France" (yet again), with "only I can fix it" (in his case, he was probably right) and set up the hybrid parliamentarian/executive system they have now. Now, the everyday functions of government hum along, even if broader functions like foreign policy are temporarily suspended. He never forgave "les Anglos" for preceding him into Paris...

 

[Tidewater]

Deutsche Welle does its usual good job analyzing the situation.

Energy: disaster
Public spending: disaster
Migration: incredible disaster
Trade with China: stupid decision
In my view, Angela Merkel will go down in history as one of Germany's worst villains (but probably not the absolute worst).

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Energy: disaster
Public spending: disaster
Migration: incredible disaster
Trade with China: stupid decision
In my view, Angela Merkel will go down in history as one of Germany's worst villains (but probably not the absolute worst).

A disturbing number of European leaders have caught a terminal case of stupid and their immigration and green policies bear this out. I can’t help but wonder if it’s too late to reverse the damage.

 

[JDCrimson]

A villian would seem to indicate she had corrupt intent? Or is it better to suggest she was incompetent in her role? You have a more knowledge on that than me.

Deutsche Welle does its usual good job analyzing the situation.

Energy: disaster
Public spending: disaster
Migration: incredible disaster
Trade with China: stupid decision
In my view, Angela Merkel will go down in history as one of Germany's worst villains (but probably not the absolute worst).

 

[Tidewater]

A villian would seem to indicate she had corrupt intent? Or is it better to suggest she was incompetent in her role? You have a more knowledge on that than me.

I cannot speak to intent, but incompetent does not begin to cover it.
The death and misery her decisions have inflicted on Germany are mind-boggling. She is by far the worst "leader" Germany has had since 1945.

 

[UAH]

If one steps back and considers the circumstances that the US finds itself in in terms of our growing nationa debt when compared to Germany, incompetent governance at all levels, a health care system that cost double that of countries with similar levels of care, a retirement system that is virtually unfunded for future retirees, the hollowing out of our industrial base and middle class due largely to our trade policies vis-à-vis Japan, China and South Korea, etc. Our failures to create an alliance that dealt effectively with the Syrian Civil war and the immigration crisis that largely fell on Europe. On an on ad naseum!

We may be a bit more circumspect in our criticism of other governments failures.

 

[81usaf92]

This is why I said “ Just because Lepen’s party lost the majority, that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a good thing”. A bad stable democratic government is still infinitely better than a chaotically democratically elected one designed to keep a specific party out of power.

 

[Tidewater]

If one steps back and considers the circumstances that the US finds itself in in terms of our growing nationa debt when compared to Germany, incompetent governance at all levels, a health care system that cost double that of countries with similar levels of care, a retirement system that is virtually unfunded for future retirees, the hollowing out of our industrial base and middle class due largely to our trade policies vis-à-vis Japan, China and South Korea, etc. Our failures to create an alliance that dealt effectively with the Syrian Civil war and the immigration crisis that largely fell on Europe. On an on ad naseum!

We may be a bit more circumspect in our criticism of other governments failures.

I get glass houses and all that, but if you compare the situation Merkela inherited in 2005 and what she handed to her successor, the delta is really bad.
Germany had a relatively homogeneous population, the majority of which were smart, well-educated, and hard-working.
Germany got a substantial portion of her electricity from nuclear power plants that were run exceptionally well. Zero-carbon megawatt hours.
The federal government had a handle on debt.
Overall, she inherited a pretty good situation.

Then, she started the closure of nuclear power plants. She closed the carbon-free nuclear plants and now Germany gets 30% of her electricity from coal. Well done, Angela!
She emphasized Russian natural gas (I get it, it was cheap) and ignored increasingly bad Russian nehavior to enable that trade.
She drastically cut defense expenditures (there were more soldiers stationed at Ft. Bragg than there were in the entire Bundeswehr.
Maybe worst of all, she threw open the door to Germany and said, "Anybody who wants to come to Germany, come on. We'll pay you, and you do not have to integrate into German society."
That caused budgetary pressure and societal problems. The attack this evening in Magdeburg is one of the results.
The Chinese trade issue is the result of a lot of neo-liberal hubris in the 1990s (so not originally her fault) that if we treated China like a normal country, they would act like a normal country. That has not panned out, so prudent heads of state were watching and challenging their assumptions.
In every major decision she made, she has screwed Germany. If I was a German, I'd be livid.