I also think that making any player flagged for a personal foul sit out one quarter would slow the roll of some of the too-aggressive players...
Greg Sankey on SEC officiating
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That’s been my concern for years. Some of the stuff they are missing can also be serious injury concerns for players. This past game they literally would not blow plays dead when the pile started getting “pushed”. That’s been outlawed! Period. The previous week Bama was flagged for it. Clearly they’ve been coached not to do it again. The first time in the Ut game our guys stopped like they should and the Ut guys went 25 more yards. Ridiculous!
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The problem is, of course, that they don't see the initial foul most of the time...
The neutral zone is the space between the two scrimmage lines extended to the sidelines. (Rule 2-21-2) Its width is equal to the length of the ball (11 inches).I'll have to find the video showing the South Carolina defender holding onto the facemask of Florida's Tyrie Cleveland all the way down the field. Of course, it was not shown on national TV and the announcers didn't help matters with their commentary. Maybe that's why there was no holding call - I don't know and seems to me the SEC should come out after the game with a post-game report of all these concerns complete with proper video showing what really happened.
The other "pick" play is questionable because from what I understand the NCAA rule allows a wide-out to block within one yard. If you look, Hammond's foot was one yard downfield and he releases while Trask is still a runner. That is borderline to no foul and not nearly as egregious as they made it sound.
Then we have all the calls made against Florida in the first half - some of which to me were ticky tack calls at best like the two 'lining up in the neutral zone'. They also screwed up several ball placements which went against Florida - so in spite of all the outcry, I really feel we weren't really given the benefit from the officiating as some would say.
Then in the LSU and Auburn games prior to the South Carolina game, Florida got jobbed on quite a few occasions.
Bottom line is there's incompetence every where and it impacts every team in the SEC and many outside the conference.
I think the only way to overcome this is to make sure you play good enough to win, in spite of the officiating.
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The face mask I mentioned:
Per NCAA, Offensive pass interference is contact by a Team A player beyond the neutral zone that interferes with a Team B player during a legal forward pass play in which the forward pass crosses the neutral zone. It is the responsibility of the offensive player to avoid the opponents.
It is not offensive pass interference when, after the snap, a Team A ineligible player immediately charges and contacts an opponent at a point not more than one yard beyond the neutral zone and maintains the contact for no more than three yards beyond the neutral zone. (A.R. 7-3-10-II).
The line of scrimmage was just past the 5 (roughly 5-1/4 yard line). The contact was made about the 2.5 to 3 yard line. The UF receiver did not immediately charge and contact an opponent not more than one yard beyond the 11" neutral zone. He left the line of scrimmage and ran to the left, sought out the defender covering number 84, and blocked him a good 2.5 to 3 yards past the line of scrimmage. It was as textbook a case of offensive pass interference as you will see, even more egregious than the infamous Clemson PI in the cfp title game vs Bama.
As for the question of a facemask on the play that should've never occurred due to illegal procedure, it ironically would've been better for UF to just have the holding called on them (10 yds from spot) then to have both holding & facemask called (offsetting penalties, replay down), so not sure of the point being made with that.
Now that these two items are cleared up, we can get back to making fun of the SECs non-responsive response to its weekend of poor officiating.
First, I say this... There is no on-going conspiracy in officiating. Think about how hard it would be to keep that on the down-low..? It would be practically impossible. Perhaps a single official on a single game, but certainly not an entire conference, week after week, season after season..... with all due respect, but if someone thinks that there is a vast conference officiating conspiracy, you may need to get out of your mom's basement...
The things I really hate about officials are that (I believe) the use of replay has made them very lax / lazy. Many times they do not make the call, but simply allow replay to determine the call. I would love them to make the call as they see it, and then replay could either uphold the call or over-turn it.
I also hate how that officials sometimes have a tendency to play the role of "The Great Equalizer" by whether sub-consciously or not, they seem to favor the lesser team. Perhaps, that's just me, but it seems that way sometimes. Again, perhaps not intentional....
My other hate is not geared toward the officials as it is toward the TV commentators. They almost seem to make an effort to make it seem that the losing team simply got "jobbed" by the officials as a key reason to the loss (doesn't matter if it is an Alabama game or not). Of course, I hate over-reaction/over-dramatization by TV in general.....& yes, I get that there are a few times (a very few times) that a call truly determines the game's result.
The things I really hate about officials are that (I believe) the use of replay has made them very lax / lazy. Many times they do not make the call, but simply allow replay to determine the call. I would love them to make the call as they see it, and then replay could either uphold the call or over-turn it.
I also hate how that officials sometimes have a tendency to play the role of "The Great Equalizer" by whether sub-consciously or not, they seem to favor the lesser team. Perhaps, that's just me, but it seems that way sometimes. Again, perhaps not intentional....
My other hate is not geared toward the officials as it is toward the TV commentators. They almost seem to make an effort to make it seem that the losing team simply got "jobbed" by the officials as a key reason to the loss (doesn't matter if it is an Alabama game or not). Of course, I hate over-reaction/over-dramatization by TV in general.....& yes, I get that there are a few times (a very few times) that a call truly determines the game's result.
But it did....the pics show that it did, and that's what Baz was talking about...good stuff though.:Joker_PDT_08:
on TideFans.com on TideFans.com
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For the record, I don't buy the conspiracy theory stuff of refs trying to protect elites, it's just been bad officiating. I was at Bama-UT game and I thought from start to finish that was a very poorly officiated game, with numerous calls going against both teams, plus just a seemingly lack of control of the game by refs.
As bad as the SEC has been this year, the NFL has been worse. Its unwatchable now. That being said, what bothers me more than the missed calls, mainly because they never are going to be perfect, is the secrecy. The constant claim that they are held accountable and that they are judged, but then when there is an obvious mistake, you hear nothing, or worse, you get some bullcrap explanation that defends the officials. For example, 3 or 4 years ago, Bielema baited an official into calling a personal foul on an Alabama lineman by acting like he was pushed. The official called it, it was obvious on the replay what happened, and he even danced about for getting the call. The next week the SEC claimed that they had called something that happened earlier (BS) but that the coach shouldn't have celebrated on camera like that.
Just own it. The official I respect the most is that umpire that a few years ago missed the call at first that cost the pitcher a no hitter. He screwed up, but afterwards, he owned up. No one is perfect, but he owned his mistake like a man. Why do we have to pretend these guys are perfect when they obviously aren't, and we aren't supposed to criticize and we aren't allowed to know when they are wrong. Cut the crap.
Football is a complicated game, and even though I played for 12 years, there are still situations where I look and am not sure if the call is right and I don't understand the interpretation of the rule, or if they just screwed up. They would have me believe that the former is much more common than the latter. The problem is that right now I don't believe them because I know that if they are wrong, they aren't going to admit it anyway. If they'd be honest all the time, we'd be more forgiving when they do make mistakes.
Just own it. The official I respect the most is that umpire that a few years ago missed the call at first that cost the pitcher a no hitter. He screwed up, but afterwards, he owned up. No one is perfect, but he owned his mistake like a man. Why do we have to pretend these guys are perfect when they obviously aren't, and we aren't supposed to criticize and we aren't allowed to know when they are wrong. Cut the crap.
Football is a complicated game, and even though I played for 12 years, there are still situations where I look and am not sure if the call is right and I don't understand the interpretation of the rule, or if they just screwed up. They would have me believe that the former is much more common than the latter. The problem is that right now I don't believe them because I know that if they are wrong, they aren't going to admit it anyway. If they'd be honest all the time, we'd be more forgiving when they do make mistakes.
9:00 EST kick off, maybe it was past the bedtime of the refs.
Ok, only slightly kidding. The conspiracy stuff, I just don’t buy. Of course, anything is possible, however the entire conference leadership, and a bunch of officials risking federal prison time simply does not seem feasible to me.
I have been an official, albeit not for football, for 30+ years. The things I have read about myself online after games is amazing. I should be rolling in the dough from all of the times I have been bought off!
Never, not ever, have I ever been instructed by any governing body that a certain team needs to win. My officiating experience has including youth, high school, college, and lower level professional leagues. I have officiated playoff and championship games at each level, some on the state level, and some conference and league championship games for college and pro.
Have I made some mistakes that haunt me? Most definitely. There is one in particular that I so wish could be taken back. It was a simple error of losing a player in a crowded situation, and because I did not do what I should have done, most likely the result of the game was opposite of what it could have been. I think the wrong team won, because of my mistake. At the very least, there would have been some very stressful moments for the team that did end up winning.
Each time I can, I record the games of mine that are on TV. I have heard commentators with incredibly poor understanding of the rules, yet that does not prevent them from espousing their evaluation of our officiating performance. Of course, that only goes to inflame some viewers.
I do believe the vast majority of officials, at least those we see on TV, strive for perfection in each performance. Sometimes we just do not measure up. Sometimes some folks get there that just are not good enough. Generally, the folks that are there deserve to be there.
Feel sorry for them, or me? Nope. I know what I am getting into. I understand fully why coaches get so upset. It is their job on the line. Fans that issue death threats? Absolutely ridiculous.
We have an officiating crisis in many sports. Often I hear fans say,”Those folks should never work another game.” Well, that may be true, however when we run enough off, who replaces them?
Greg Sankey is a weak Commissioner which helps undermine any conference wide issues. IMO, the SEC is equal or better than most other conferences but that is not good enough. As another poster noted, officiating is even bad in the NFL.
Some of the recent changes have been good, including an improvement in targeting enforcement. Most of the cheap shots, always hated (way back to Tatum, Romanowski, et al.), have been removed. OTOH, some of the illegal QB hits are frustrating and PI enforcement has gone haywire this year. Uncatchable balls have been ignored for 20+ years but it's far more than that. Also believe that teams are more undisciplined which adds to the number of violations which tempts the officials to ignore some, thus making the enforcement more subjective - always a bad thing. Could also be that officiating has become less attractive to more talented potential candidates.
Will note again that though conspiracies and fixes can and do occur in various walks of life, it's very difficult to positively identify one. Not even a little proof has been offered to indicate either are involved in football officiating, just "circumstances", usually conflicting, that some construe as proof that one must exist. When it favors the lesser teams it's to "even the competition", when it favors the better teams it's to "protect the cash cows". This past weekend it seemed to favor the better teams, UF and Alabama; how many Bama fans think that is the norm? Maybe 3 :smile:.
Some of the recent changes have been good, including an improvement in targeting enforcement. Most of the cheap shots, always hated (way back to Tatum, Romanowski, et al.), have been removed. OTOH, some of the illegal QB hits are frustrating and PI enforcement has gone haywire this year. Uncatchable balls have been ignored for 20+ years but it's far more than that. Also believe that teams are more undisciplined which adds to the number of violations which tempts the officials to ignore some, thus making the enforcement more subjective - always a bad thing. Could also be that officiating has become less attractive to more talented potential candidates.
Will note again that though conspiracies and fixes can and do occur in various walks of life, it's very difficult to positively identify one. Not even a little proof has been offered to indicate either are involved in football officiating, just "circumstances", usually conflicting, that some construe as proof that one must exist. When it favors the lesser teams it's to "even the competition", when it favors the better teams it's to "protect the cash cows". This past weekend it seemed to favor the better teams, UF and Alabama; how many Bama fans think that is the norm? Maybe 3 :smile:.
Rocko, thanks for your post. That is the other side of officiating that people do not see. I officiated also back in the 80s. I did it one year and decided that I did not need the extra stress. I was already coaching 3 sports in HS. The extra money was not worth the threats, comments, and such. I did my best and never favored one team or player over another. When a coach threatened to kill me over a call, that did it for me. My problem with today’s officials is many are not in the proper position to make an accurate call especially in basketball. Just my 2 cents.
But in the case mentioned, he did! aTm guy was flagged for UC...what did he do to get the uc? Exactly...he saw the first punch and the golden gazelle’s retaliation. Why the instigator wasn’t ejected is beyond me?
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If my choice is between conspiracy and incompetence, I always pick incompetence.
Matt’s crew is the worst. Hubert gets more air time than a Kardashian. The fact that the SEC Office felt things were bad enough to issue a statement says all you need to know. Some of the worst of it is how wildly differently games are called from crew to crew, or even from half to half by the same crew. Zebras should not decide games via calls and no-calls.
There is enough money in SEC coffers to improve the situation.
Matt’s crew is the worst. Hubert gets more air time than a Kardashian. The fact that the SEC Office felt things were bad enough to issue a statement says all you need to know. Some of the worst of it is how wildly differently games are called from crew to crew, or even from half to half by the same crew. Zebras should not decide games via calls and no-calls.
There is enough money in SEC coffers to improve the situation.
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