Happy Secession Day

[Bazza]

From the band "America":

The biggest crowd we ever played for..The Beach Boys Party at the Washington Mall, D.C. July 4, 1984...also on the bill Ringo Starr, Julio Iglesias, Three Dog Night, Justin Hayward among others...and 700,000 guests!

 

[Tidewater]

Happy Secession Day everybody.
A British historian's take.

Forgive the goofy football stuff in the video, but Dr. Ferreiro is correct: the arrival of the French navy in American waters was a game changer. The British no longer had unchallenged control of the seas.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

 

[DzynKingRTR]

View attachment 51558

Hey now that 40% pays for roads that are always broken, helps pay the salaries for the people that decide how much money to take, cops that shoot unarmed brown people, and pay for people that can't or won't work.

 

[81usaf92]

View attachment 51558

The fact that we still dumb the revolution down to “what happened in Boston” is still amazing.

 

[Tidewater]

The fact that we still dumb the revolution down to “what happened in Boston” is still amazing.

In the Semiquincentennial thread, I posted Parliament's proposal to tax the colonies through their own legislatures and only so far as to pay the salaries of royal customs collectors and soldiers needed to defend the empire.. A proposal the colonists rejected,
Like many wars, there were multiple causes.

 

[Bazza]

 

[Tidewater]

What was the political controversy?

• After the Seven Years' War, the Crown stationed troops in North America (which had generally not happened before). This rankled the colonists.
• Parliament attempted to turn the colonies into a money-making proposition, not only making the colonies pay for their own defense, but to actually making money off the colonies. Colonists, after a century of benign neglect, objected.
• English Whig pamphlet writers (the "Commonwealthmen") in the mid-1700s had warned of gradual encroachments of royal power, and colonists read their writings, putting them on the look-out. As Burke said of the colonists, "They augur misgovernment at a distance; and snuff the approach of tyranny in every tainted breeze." Even if British treatment of the colonists in the 1760s and 1770s was not unbearable, the colonists saw it as the entering wedge for worse treatment.
• In the settlement of the Seven Years' War, the Crown had drawn a line along the western frontier and guaranteed the Indians there that British subjects would not attempt to settle west of that line. A lot of colonial leaders had already purchased land west of that line (as an investment) and were thus defrauded (in their view) by the Crown.
• The English, who had moved Scots to Ulster in "the Plantation of 1603," decided to move the Ulster Scots out in the mid-1700s, by "racking rents." Many Ulster Scots moved to America, bitterly resenting their treatment. Convincing the Scotch-Irish to fight the Crown was not difficult.

Those are probably the five most significant ones.

 

[81usaf92]

In the Semiquincentennial thread, I posted Parliament's proposal to tax the colonies through their own legislatures and only so far as to pay the salaries of royal customs collectors and soldiers needed to defend the empire.. A proposal the colonists rejected,
Like many wars, there were multiple causes.

Well you also have the Proclamation line issue.

 

[crimsonaudio]

 

[Tidewater]

Well you also have the Proclamation line issue.

Agreed. That was what I was referring to here:

In the settlement of the Seven Years' War, the Crown had drawn a line along the western frontier and guaranteed the Indians there that British subjects would not attempt to settle west of that line. A lot of colonial leaders had already purchased land west of that line (as an investment) and were thus defrauded (in their view) by the Crown.

 

[92tide]

The Brits gave us a bicameral legislature
The idea of a Bill of Rights
The English Common Law
And (by negative example) the need for a written constitution.

Not bad.

but apart from that, what have the Brit’s ever done for us /s

 

[92tide]

View attachment 51564

one of my favorite memes

 

[81usaf92]

Agreed. That was what I was referring to here:

My point is more that in general we tend to base everything on “taxation without representation”, “we are tired of kings”, and “everything that happened to Boston”, but the fact is that it was far more complex than what we make it out to be. Also much of what the British did before the Revolution is far more rational than what we make it out to be.

 

[Tidewater]

I think the big "gun grabs" in Virginia, Massachusetts, and North Carolina gave rhetorical ammunition to those who saw tyranny approaching. They could poit to the gun grabbers and say, "See? I told you they were up to no good!"
Once the shooting started, it was difficult to stop, to put that genie back in the bottle.

 

[jthomas666]

What I don't understand is the cognitive dissonance of the "Don't Tread On Me" crowd and the desire to elect the Dear Leader to Nanny them forever and ever.

They're fine with Trump nannying them so long as Trump oppresses the people they think should be oppressed.

 

[75thru79]

My point is more that in general we tend to base everything on “taxation without representation”, “we are tired of kings”, and “everything that happened to Boston”, but the fact is that it was far more complex than what we make it out to be. Also much of what the British did before the Revolution is far more rational than what we make it out to be.

To be fair, do you think fourth and fifth graders will understand all that other stuff? The history has been dumbed down because they are teaching it at such a young age. Taxation without representations sounds cool. All that other stuff...not so much.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Happy Secession Day everybody.
A British historian's take.

Forgive the goofy football stuff in the video, but Dr. Ferreiro is correct: the arrival of the French navy in American waters was a game changer. The British no longer had unchallenged control of the seas.

If we had pressed forward with the "turtle," the one-man submersible, it might have had great impact on the fleet. The first attempt failed only because the pilot couldn't attach the bomb to the bottom of the ship. An idea way ahead of its time...

 

[81usaf92]

To be fair, do you think fourth and fifth graders will understand all that other stuff? The history has been dumbed down because they are teaching it at such a young age. Taxation without representations sounds cool. All that other stuff...not so much.

TBF Woodrow Wilson thought changing the history curriculum to the south politically fighting for States Rights sounds cooler than slavery too….

 

[Tidewater]