How Did We Get Here, and What Do We Do Now?

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Given the clown car circling a dumpster fire that was caused by a train wreck of a presidency we have today, it's interesting to look back and ask (1) how in the world did we get here?, and (2) OK, we're here. What do we do now?

How we got here goes back to the 2016 election.

2016 was a weird election. I didn't think Donald Trump had a chance. I'm not convinced that he thought he had a chance when he began his run -- I thought it was strictly for name recognition and to enhance his business ventures.

But the Democrats nominated perhaps the most dislikable candidate of all time in Hilary Clinton. She clearly looked down her nose at a minimum of 75% of the country. Then she made maybe the dumbest political blunder ever when she said the quiet part out loud, calling them deplorables. As is said about Republicans a lot, "When someone tells you who they are, believe them the first time."

Then in 2020, the American public had recognized its mistake and opted for a Democrat who ran as a moderate. That's not the way Biden governed, but it is the way he ran. And it worked. Biden wins against an incumbent President -- not easy to do.

Then he squandered his middle support by governing from the far left -- not at all how he ran.

Then comes 2024 when the Democrats circled up to form a firing squad. First they insisted, despite all evidence to the contrary, that Biden was fully up to another 4 years. This after carefully scripting his public appearances and shielding him from all unscripted questions for the last 2-3 years of his term and enlisting the help of a water-carrying mainstream broadcast and print media.

Essentially, they asked the American public, "Are you going to believe us or your own lying eyes?" Again, for all practical purposes calling the American public stupid, but this time adding blind.

So when the first debate happened and Biden hopelessly pantsed himself, they coronated a wholly unqualified Kamala Harris, who essentially ran on good vibes.....because she had no substance (no surprise there....for that very reason, she was among the first to drop out of the 2020 Presidential) and was unable to articulate a case for herself beyond, "I'm not Donald Trump."

The Democratic Party's real mistake was in denying Biden's mental and physical decline for years, thereby precluding a truly open primary season. Unfortunately, come June 27 they couldn't turn back the clock. With only 18 weeks between the debate and election day, they had a problem. Then they compounded the problem by dithering for a month before coronating Harris.

In fairness, after frittering away precious time, there was only a bit over 90 days until the election. They were stuck. But if they had done the right thing 12-18 months prior, that wouldn't have been the case.

The Democrats thereby blew a golden opportunity to dominate the American political scene for a generation by defeating the most beatable Republican since Herbert Hoover.

Donald Trump is reprehensible on so many fronts. And yes, it will take some years to undo the damage he's doing. The Democrats could have prevented all of this (twice!) by running a moderate and by having a bit of faith in the American public.

That's all history and can't be undone. So what do we do now?

The answer, if there is one, lies in Congress. First, the Democrats have to get off the identity politics and obsessing over how deranged Donald Trump is. They're not wrong on that. But until they offer tangible alternatives that aren't flying in out of the far left, it's been proven over and over again to be a losing argument.

They have to offer some concrete ideas that appeal to middle America, not just the deep blue coastal states.

For example, change the debate on extension of healthcare insurance subsidies. Those were part of the response to COVID, and were originally approved with a sunset date. The extension without any apparent end comes across as gimme, gimme, gimme.

Put forward the idea that, for the good of the country, everyone has to have insurance. Each individual has several options to achieve that, but one way or another, everyone must have it -- which comes across as "we're in this together and we'll solve it together."

Note that this was the original position of Obamacare (including income-based subsidies) and Republicans blew it up.

It's a golden opportunity to cast Republicans as ideologues who either don't understand or don't care about the consequences of their positions. Simultaneously, put forward an idea that has universal appeal. But so far all we hear is how Republicans are killing poor babies and people of color -- class and identity politics when the real issue affects every single citizen no matter their demographics.

Republicans in Congress have to grow a spine and (1) do their job, and (2) quit kowtowing to Trump's unhinged and forever changing dictates. For some, that's a pipe dream. But I think real support for Trump's policies is shallow. They don't vote against them because, with good cause, they fear retaliation. Grow a spine and do the right thing, retaliation be damned.

Start with taking back the sole authority to levy tariffs. It'll be vetoed, which means a goodly number of Republicans will have to be on board for an override.

We're beginning to see small indications of Republicans going against Trump. It'll be interesting what they'll do after the 2026 election when Trump becomes a lame duck.

A long time ago I heard Margaret Thatcher speak before a small audience. The most memorable line I took from her was, "I've found that the right thing to do, defined as something you can explain to a class of 10 year olds in 30 second or less, is almost invariably the best political move as well."

The Republicans can also change the party's nomination rules. Currently, the highest vote count gets all the delegates -- even if that vote count is only a plurality of votes. It enables a candidate (Trump) with a hard core of support to take over the party, even if the majority of the party doesn't see things his way.

Contrast with the Democrats who have a largely proportional allocation of delegates. It's not exactly proportional because there are some super-delegates and you have to have a minimum vote count to get any delegates. Plus, you can't allocate partial delegates, so you have to have a process to address that.

Still, it's generally headed in the direction of proportionality. Which keeps an outlier candidate with a hard core of support from hijacking the whole party.

If the Republicans had allocated party delegates like the Democrats do, it's unlikely that Trump could have amassed the power he has.

What do you think? Aside from howling at the moon about how bad Donald Trump is (and he is that bad), how do you think we as a country should actually address the problem?
 
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Given the clown car circling a dumpster fire that was caused by a train wreck of a presidency we have today, it's interesting to look back and ask (1) how in the world did we get here?, and (2) OK, we're here. What do we do now?

I think if we want to look back at ONE DECISION that would have changed everything going forward, it was Clinton's refusal to turn the White House over to Al Gore in 1999. I won't say that BEGAN anything, but if you're looking for one moment that changes everything afterwards, that's it.

I'm not gonna argue the pedantic points of "what Clinton really did", and I completely understand the "meh, this was about sex and you'd have lied under oath, too" aspect of the argument. However:

- Gore then runs in 2000 as the incumbent President with a booming economy and peace, meaning he very likely wins that election straight up. He has cleared out the scandals and the dangling participles of Clintonism.

- it very probably ends the political dreams of Hillary Clinton, too. I'm less sure of this one, but it is the most probable outcome.

- the Democrats actually show they'll hold THEIR OWN accountable for so-called law and order

- I cannot conceive that Al Gore invades Iraq in 2003.

- Gore can run for a second full term, and he does so again with long peace as well as an economy growing at 3.8% in September 2004.

- as a result of this election, Gore appoints two justices to the Supreme Court (when the choices were Roberts and Alito), giving the liberals a 6-3 advantage before he retires in 2008.

A Democratic Party in charge of the White House for 16 years with no Iraq War, no "Hillary should be our President", and a SCOTUS majority along with (probably) lower deficits is a completely different world in 2008.
 
I can sum it all up in one sentence.

"There are too many people making money off political division in this country."

I have no problem with people who have opinions.

But if you dive deep into who is making the profits off political division, you'll find the answer you're looking for.

Now who are these people? :unsure:
 
A lot of what you said is true. But laying most of the blame at the feet of the Democrat Party is disproportional.

The people who need to grow a spine is the American voters. We have enabled all of this with our laissez-faire straight party ticket voting over the last 40 years. We did this to ourselves. Democrats would not pursue identity politics if they werent rewarded for by its voters. Republicans would not pursue criminality politics if they werent rewarded for it by its voters. Bottom line is, neither choice being good mind you, more voters chose criminal politics than impotent politics to take over a largely stable and improving economy and society compared to what we have now.

We. Are. To. Blame. We enabled every bit of what we are suffering right now.

Given the clown car circling a dumpster fire that was caused by a train wreck of a presidency we have today, it's interesting to look back and ask (1) how in the world did we get here?, and (2) OK, we're here. What do we do now?

How we got here goes back to the 2016 election.

2016 was a weird election. I didn't think Donald Trump had a chance. I'm not convinced that he thought he had a chance when he began his run -- I thought it was strictly for name recognition and to enhance his business ventures.

But the Democrats nominated perhaps the most dislikable candidate of all time in Hilary Clinton. She clearly looked down her nose at a minimum of 75% of the country. Then she made maybe the dumbest political blunder ever when she said the quiet part out loud, calling them deplorables. As is said about Republicans a lot, "When someone tells you who they are, believe them the first time."

Then in 2020, the American public had recognized its mistake and opted for a Democrat who ran as a moderate. That's not the way Biden governed, but it is the way he ran. And it worked. Biden wins against an incumbent President -- not easy to do.

Then he squandered his middle support by governing from the far left -- not at all how he ran.

Then comes 2024 when the Democrats circled up to form a firing squad. First they insisted, despite all evidence to the contrary, that Biden was fully up to another 4 years. This after carefully scripting his public appearances and shielding him from all unscripted questions for the last 2-3 years of his term and enlisting the help of a water-carrying mainstream broadcast and print media.

Essentially, they asked the American public, "Are you going to believe us or your own lying eyes?" Again, for all practical purposes calling the American public stupid, but this time adding blind.

So when the first debate happened and Biden hopelessly pantsed himself, they coronated a wholly unqualified Kamala Harris, who essentially ran on good vibes.....because she had no substance (no surprise there....for that very reason, she was among the first to drop out of the 2020 Presidential) and was unable to articulate a case for herself beyond, "I'm not Donald Trump."

The Democratic Party's real mistake was in denying Biden's mental and physical decline for years, thereby precluding a truly open primary season. Unfortunately, come June 27 they couldn't turn back the clock. With only 18 weeks between the debate and election day, they had a problem. Then they compounded the problem by dithering for a month before coronating Harris.

In fairness, after frittering away precious time, there was only a bit over 90 days until the election. They were stuck. But if they had done the right thing 12-18 months prior, that wouldn't have been the case.

The Democrats thereby blew a golden opportunity to dominate the American political scene for a generation by defeating the most beatable Republican since Herbert Hoover.

Donald Trump is reprehensible on so many fronts. And yes, it will take some years to undo the damage he's doing. The Democrats could have prevented all of this (twice!) by running a moderate and by having a bit of faith in the American public.

That's all history and can't be undone. So what do we do now?

The answer, if there is one, lies in Congress. First, the Democrats have to get off the identity politics and obsessing over how deranged Donald Trump is. They're not wrong on that. But until they offer tangible alternatives that aren't flying in out of the far left, it's been proven over and over again to be a losing argument.

They have to offer some concrete ideas that appeal to middle America, not just the deep blue coastal states.

For example, change the debate on extension of healthcare insurance subsidies. Those were part of the response to COVID, and were originally approved with a sunset date. The extension without any apparent end comes across as gimme, gimme, gimme.

Put forward the idea that, for the good of the country, everyone has to have insurance. Each individual has several options to achieve that, but one way or another, everyone must have it -- which comes across as "we're in this together and we'll solve it together."

Note that this was the original position of Obamacare (including income-based subsidies) and Republicans blew it up.

It's a golden opportunity to cast Republicans as ideologues who either don't understand or don't care about the consequences of their positions. Simultaneously, put forward an idea that has universal appeal. But so far all we hear is how Republicans are killing poor babies and people of color -- class and identity politics when the real issue affects every single citizen no matter their demographics.

Republicans in Congress have to grow a spine and (1) do their job, and (2) quit kowtowing to Trump's unhinged and forever changing dictates. For some, that's a pipe dream. But I think real support for Trump's policies is shallow. They don't vote against them because, with good cause, they fear retaliation. Grow a spine and do the right thing, retaliation be damned.

Start with taking back the sole authority to levy tariffs. It'll be vetoed, which means a goodly number of Republicans will have to be on board for an override.

We're beginning to see small indications of Republicans going against Trump. It'll be interesting what they'll do after the 2026 election when Trump becomes a lame duck.

A long time ago I heard Margaret Thatcher speak before a small audience. The most memorable line I took from her was, "I've found that the right thing to do, defined as something you can explain to a class of 10 year olds in 30 second or less, is almost invariably the best political move as well."

The Republicans can also change the party's nomination rules. Currently, the highest vote count gets all the delegates -- even if that vote count is only a plurality of votes. It enables a candidate (Trump) with a hard core of support to take over the party, even if the majority of the party doesn't see things his way.

Contrast with the Democrats who have a largely proportional allocation of delegates. It's not exactly proportional because there are some super-delegates and you have to have a minimum vote count to get any delegates. Plus, you can't allocate partial delegates, so you have to have a process to address that.

Still, it's generally headed in the direction of proportionality. Which keeps an outlier candidate with a hard core of support from hijacking the whole party.

If the Republicans had allocated party delegates like the Democrats do, it's unlikely that Trump could have amassed the power he has.

What do you think? Aside from howling at the moon about how bad Donald Trump is (and he is that bad), how do you think we as a country should actually address the problem?
 
Can’t link it, but go to YouTube and search for “Dumb Americans” by George Carlin. The correct video is just under 11 minutes. It answers exactly how we got here. JD touched on some of this).
 
Since Citizens United, we have ceased being Citizens and are now Subjects. Your boss is the guy who signs your checks. We don't sign the checks that pay our "Representatives".

Both partys and every Congress Critter is owned by a billionaire or billionaires. We'll need a populist blue wave like 1933. It took four years of a great depression to get that last time.
 
A lot of what you said is true. But laying most of the blame at the feet of the Democrat Party is disproportional.

The people who need to grow a spine is the American voters. We have enabled all of this with our laissez-faire straight party ticket voting over the last 40 years. We did this to ourselves. Democrats would not pursue identity politics if they werent rewarded for by its voters. Republicans would not pursue criminality politics if they werent rewarded for it by its voters. Bottom line is, neither choice being good mind you, more voters chose criminal politics than impotent politics to take over a largely stable and improving economy and society compared to what we have now.

We. Are. To. Blame. We enabled every bit of what we are suffering right now.
To clarify, I’m not saying that Trump’s policies, actions and statements are the Democrats’ fault.

Trump’s words and deeds are, blessedly, solely his own.

I’m saying that if the Democrats (1) hadn’t backed Biden to the hilt until June 27, 2024, including pit-bull attacks on anyone pointing out his physical and mental decline, and (2) had instead put forward tangible ideas coherently espoused by a candidate that the true political middle could get behind, we probably wouldn’t be dealing with Donald Trump today at all.

Just as Trump owns his own idiocy, the Democrats own those two massive blunders.
 
I think if we want to look back at ONE DECISION that would have changed everything going forward, it was Clinton's refusal to turn the White House over to Al Gore in 1999. I won't say that BEGAN anything, but if you're looking for one moment that changes everything afterwards, that's it.

I'm not gonna argue the pedantic points of "what Clinton really did", and I completely understand the "meh, this was about sex and you'd have lied under oath, too" aspect of the argument. However:

- Gore then runs in 2000 as the incumbent President with a booming economy and peace, meaning he very likely wins that election straight up. He has cleared out the scandals and the dangling participles of Clintonism.

- it very probably ends the political dreams of Hillary Clinton, too. I'm less sure of this one, but it is the most probable outcome.

- the Democrats actually show they'll hold THEIR OWN accountable for so-called law and order

- I cannot conceive that Al Gore invades Iraq in 2003.

- Gore can run for a second full term, and he does so again with long peace as well as an economy growing at 3.8% in September 2004.

- as a result of this election, Gore appoints two justices to the Supreme Court (when the choices were Roberts and Alito), giving the liberals a 6-3 advantage before he retires in 2008.

A Democratic Party in charge of the White House for 16 years with no Iraq War, no "Hillary should be our President", and a SCOTUS majority along with (probably) lower deficits is a completely different world in 2008.

I have often wondered about what the world would be like with this very scenario. Everything seemed to be headed to a very nice place around 2000. The deficit was dropping, people were happy. Problems would have occurred, but the current mess would have been avoided and I think we'd live in a much moderate country where people got along better.

Trump poses so many long term problems. Destroying the NIH, CDC, FDA, NSF, and going after all climate research and targeting renewables amongst damaging every other branch of the Federal government will hurt us for years. Years could become decades and the damage unrecoverable. He is literally playing into the hands of the Russians and the Chinese while destroying our relationships with Western Europe, Japan, Korea, and other democracies and friendly nations. And he is delivering us to the American Oligarchs, who will be no different than the Russian ones given the chance.
 
To clarify, I’m not saying that Trump’s policies, actions and statements are the Democrats’ fault.

Trump’s words and deeds are, blessedly, solely his own.

I’m saying that if the Democrats (1) hadn’t backed Biden to the hilt until June 27, 2024, including pit-bull attacks on anyone pointing out his physical and mental decline, and (2) had instead put forward tangible ideas coherently espoused by a candidate that the true political middle could get behind, we probably wouldn’t be dealing with Donald Trump today at all.

Just as Trump owns his own idiocy, the Democrats own those two massive blunders.

Joe Biden was another horrible mistake... I kept hoping they'd announce he wasn't running by the midway point of his term and nominate a younger, vibrant, moderate person who could pull us back together.

Nope. We have too many older people who need to step down and relinquish the reigns of power before their mental and physical frailty lead to disaster.
 
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I have often wondered about what the world would be like with this very scenario. Everything seemed to be headed to a very nice place around 2000. The deficit was dropping, people were happy. Problems would have occurred, but the current mess would have been avoided and I think we'd live in a much moderate country where people got along better.

Trump poses so many long term problems. Destroying the NIH, CDC, FDA, NSF, and going after all climate research and targeting renewables amongst damaging every other branch of the Federal government will hurt us for years. Years could become decades and the damage unrecoverable. He is literally playing into the hands of the Russians and the Chinese while destroying our relationships with Western Europe, Japan, Korea, and other democracies and friendly nations. And he is delivering us to the American Oligarchs, who will be no different than the Russian ones given the chance.
anecdotally, i knew a few folks who voted for shrub to “shake things up”

i remember hearing the same sentiment a time or two in 2016
 
Joe Biden was another horrible mistake... I kept hoping they'd announce he wasn't running by the midway point of his term and nominate a younger, vibrant, moderate person who could pull us back together.

Nope. We have too many older people who need to step down and relinquish the reigns of power before their mental and physical frailty lead to disaster.
But that's a hard thing to do when the next generation is full of nimrods like AOC and the fraud-squad. Older Dems are frightened of these people (and they should be) so that leaves them no choice but to back candidates who belong in a nursing home. If the Dem party ever falls fully under control of the left-wing extremists, they may never win another election no matter how ridiculous the Republicans get (and trust me, that's another hole with no bottom.)
 
Joe Biden was another horrible mistake... I kept hoping they'd announce he wasn't running by the midway point of his term and nominate a younger, vibrant, moderate person who could pull us back together.

Nope. We have too many older people who need to step down and relinquish the reigns of power before their mental and physical frailty lead to disaster.
he would have still been light years better that what we’re seeing now. we are going to be digging out of this hole for a really long time
 
I think we still would have had to navigate 9/11 with Gore but we probably could have just focused on Afghanistan from the beginning and maybe caught Bin Laden sooner.

The dotcom crash would still have happened in early 2000.

The sub-prime mortgage cookies were already in the oven in 1999 and would burst anyway. And we still hadnt felt the full effect of repealing Glass-Stegall Act.

We likely still had to deal with Newt Gingrich.

And probably more certainly had to deal with a likely a Hillary Clinton presidency because you can bet Gore would have been under a strong quid pro quo to promote Hillary as his successor.

Bill Clinton likely not resigning saved us from a Hillary presidency and that awful laugh, Obama would have been delayed likely running against Trump with Trump getting elected anyway.

I think we would have ended up with Trump either way but with probably a $20T national debt rather than $35T.

There was Clinton Derangement Syndrome well before TDS. And it infected us well before we got exposed to TDS.

I have often wondered about what the world would be like with this very scenario. Everything seemed to be headed to a very nice place around 2000. The deficit was dropping, people were happy. Problems would have occurred, but the current mess would have been avoided and I think we'd live in a much moderate country where people got along better.

Trump poses so many long term problems. Destroying the NIH, CDC, FDA, NSF, and going after all climate research and targeting renewables amongst damaging every other branch of the Federal government will hurt us for years. Years could become decades and the damage unrecoverable. He is literally playing into the hands of the Russians and the Chinese while destroying our relationships with Western Europe, Japan, Korea, and other democracies and friendly nations. And he is delivering us to the American Oligarchs, who will be no different than the Russian ones given the chance.
 
But that's a hard thing to do when the next generation is full of nimrods like AOC and the fraud-squad. Older Dems are frightened of these people (and they should be) so that leaves them no choice but to back candidates who belong in a nursing home. If the Dem party ever falls fully under control of the left-wing extremists, they may never win another election no matter how ridiculous the Republicans get (and trust me, that's another hole with no bottom.)

If they are too young... YOU ARE TOO OLD.

Hahahaa!
 
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I think we still would have had to navigate 9/11 with Gore but we probably could have just focused on Afghanistan from the beginning and maybe caught Bin Laden sooner.

The dotcom crash would still have happened in early 2000.

The sub-prime mortgage cookies were already in the oven in 1999 and would burst anyway. And we still hadnt felt the full effect of repealing Glass-Stegall Act.

We likely still had to deal with Newt Gingrich.

And probably more certainly had to deal with a likely a Hillary Clinton presidency because you can bet Gore would have been under a strong quid pro quo to promote Hillary as his successor.

Bill Clinton likely not resigning saved us from a Hillary presidency and that awful laugh, Obama would have been delayed likely running against Trump with Trump getting elected anyway.

I think we would have ended up with Trump either way but with probably a $20T national debt rather than $35T.

There was Clinton Derangement Syndrome well before TDS. And it infected us well before we got exposed to TDS.

Action limited to Afghanistan would have been appropriate and so much less costly in terms of good people. And cash too, but mostly the people. Not those who were killed, but so many had injuries, families ultimately broke up. I'm afraid many of our vets and best will suffer for decades yet.
 
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