How Do The Economies Of European Countries Compare With Individual States In The US?

Tide1986

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Yet you've got Americans who want this type system. Un-freakin-believable. :rolleyes:
I suspect the difference is between those who want to be individuals (which seems to be the traditional American way) versus those who are okay with communal living of a sorts. Our geography and its lower population density seem to enable our individualistic world view whereas the geography of Europe and its higher population density (and of course its history of vast destruction) seem to lead to more of a communal world view.
 

4Q Basket Case

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I struggled with this concept when I completed that candidate survey in another thread. On one hand, I feel that businesses (even the alternative energy ones) should live or die on the free market. On the other hand, I can justify governmental interest in the exploration and development of a variety of energy sources since energy is critical to driving our economy and even the defense of our country. I can find my way to being okay with government investment in the development of energy sources or with government being completely hands-off. I do not, however, agree with punishing some sources of energy while investing in others.
Being a free-marketeer myself, I also struggled with that. Eventually, I came down in favor of subsidizing R&D aimed at increasing production.

I actually view that as a national security issue. In other words, the less we depend on foreign (and often unstable or unreliable) sources of energy, the more secure we are as a country and an economy.

Since I view national security as one of the few legitimate purposes of government, I view funding R&D for domestic energy production as legitimate expenditure.

Where I differ with the current administration is favoring R&D on unproven technologies over proven petroleum-based energy. I'd find all of them, but have a fixed time frame (5-10 years) by which they have to be economically viable, or face discontinued subsidy.
 

TIDE-HSV

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I suspect the difference is between those who want to be individuals (which seems to be the traditional American way) versus those who are okay with communal living of a sorts. Our geography and its lower population density seem to enable our individualistic world view whereas the geography of Europe and its higher population density (and of course its history of vast destruction) seem to lead to more of a communal world view.
That view is not universal in the US. It's greatly different in New England, for example. I just finished a very interesting book which makes the case that the US is actually made up of 11 "nations." The view you speak of is most prevalent in "Greater Appalachia," settled primarily by Scots and Scot-Irish...
 

TIDE-HSV

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Why does Tidewater get his own country?
LOL! Occurred to me also, reading the book. According to Woodard, the westward expansion of Tidewater was cut off by the burgeoning Scots-Irish Appalachian population. I sort of have a foot in each camp, Tidewater and Greater Appalachia. One thing he notes is that immigrants from different areas or countries, Germans into Appalachia, for example, tended to adopt the mores of the region into which they migrated. I agree that this is generally true...
 

4Q Basket Case

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LOL! Occurred to me also, reading the book. According to Woodard, the westward expansion of Tidewater was cut off by the burgeoning Scots-Irish Appalachian population. I sort of have a foot in each camp, Tidewater and Greater Appalachia. One thing he notes is that immigrants from different areas or countries, Germans into Appalachia, for example, tended to adopt the mores of the region into which they migrated. I agree that this is generally true...
Interesting point about Germans adopting the culture of Scots-Irish.

A few years ago, a fascinating book came out called "Born Fighting," by Jim Webb. You may remember him as a Reagan Republican turned conservative Democrat who mounted a short-lived presidential campaign last year.

Anyway, it's an honest, warts-and-all depiction of the strongest culture going.

They're very bottom-up. Anybody can be the chief, but you have to earn it. And if you fail to maintain the trust of the tribe, they'll boot you. They'll assimilate just about anybody, provided the newcomer works hard, doesn't ask anybody for anything, and is willing to band together with the tribe to provide a common defense against threats. The church is very important, but it too is bottom-up....as in Scottish Presbyterianism vs the top-down English Episcopalianism (which of course came from Roman Catholicism -- about the most top-down, hierarchical organization on the planet).

The warts are that they make mules look agreeable, they hold grudges to the grave, and to their own detriment, they have been exceedingly slow to recognize the value of formal education.

The History Channel made a mini-series out of it, but the execution wasn't up to their normal standards. The book is infinitely better.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Interesting point about Germans adopting the culture of Scots-Irish.

A few years ago, a fascinating book came out called "Born Fighting," by Jim Webb. You may remember him as a Reagan Republican turned conservative Democrat who mounted a short-lived presidential campaign last year.

Anyway, it's an honest, warts-and-all depiction of the strongest culture going.

They're very bottom-up. Anybody can be the chief, but you have to earn it. And if you fail to maintain the trust of the tribe, they'll boot you. They'll assimilate just about anybody, provided the newcomer works hard, doesn't ask anybody for anything, and is willing to band together with the tribe to provide a common defense against threats. The church is very important, but it too is bottom-up....as in Scottish Presbyterianism vs the top-down English Episcopalianism (which of course came from Roman Catholicism -- about the most top-down, hierarchical organization on the planet).

The warts are that they make mules look agreeable, they hold grudges to the grave, and to their own detriment, they have been exceedingly slow to recognize the value of formal education.

The History Channel made a mini-series out of it, but the execution wasn't up to their normal standards. The book is infinitely better.
He cites Webb's book several times...
 

Tidewater

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Come to think of it, low flat and marshy kind of fits. Let him rule :)
My ancestors came to the Tidewater in 1622, and settled in the malarial swamps of Warresquoyack County (named after the tribe whom the English found there. They moved upcountry, however, as they wore the soil out growing tobacco, and have lived in the Piedmont or Appalachia since the mid-1700s.
 

TIDE-HSV

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My ancestors came to the Tidewater in 1622, and settled in the malarial swamps of Warresquoyack County (named after the tribe whom the English found there. They moved upcountry, however, as they wore the soil out growing tobacco, and have lived in the Piedmont or Appalachia since the mid-1700s.
If you haven't read Woodard's book yet, I'd highly recommend it...
 

TIDE-HSV

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Onto the list it goes.
If I bring another book into the Tidewater estate, Mrs. Tidewater might kick me out, though.
Tried hiding them on Kindle? :) There's another book cited, which I have but never finished - "Albion's Seeds," which I'm going to pick up and finish...
 
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Tidewater

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Tried hiding them on Kindle? :) There's another book cited, which I have but never finished - "Albion's Seeds," which I'm going to pick up and finish...
I was going to suggest that or contrast it with Woodward.
I find Fischer's argument compelling. A lot of people do not, but I believe that culture, like water, is nebulous, but very powerful. Think Niagara Falls...
Growing up on the eastern edge of Appalachia, in an area in which the Scotch-Irish settled specifically because there were no Church of England vicars this far west, I thought the letters between "L" and "M were "Mac" and "Mc."
 
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TIDE-HSV

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I was going to suggest that or contrast it with Woodward.
I find Fischer's argument compelling. A lot of people do not, but I believe that culture, like water, is nebulous, but very powerful. Think Niagara Falls...
Growing up on the eastern edge of Appalachia, in an area in which the Scotch-Irish settled specifically because there were no Church of England vicars this far west, I thought the letters between "L" and "M were "Mac" and "Mc."
Before the phone book started shrinking before cells, we had about six pages of those. I found that part of the book fascinating, in that more of my heritage comes from there than any other. I'll be frank and say that I found myself resisting some of his reasoning, because it was none too flattering, but the more I read, I concluded the same - culture rules. People from other cultures get sucked into the ambient one in which they dwell...
 

dvldog

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"People from other cultures get sucked into the ambient one in which they dwell"

Good to know. I was figuring I'd have to start learning Spanish.:wink:
 

tidegrandpa

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Before the phone book started shrinking before cells, we had about six pages of those. I found that part of the book fascinating, in that more of my heritage comes from there than any other. I'll be frank and say that I found myself resisting some of his reasoning, because it was none too flattering, but the more I read, I concluded the same - culture rules. People from other cultures get sucked into the ambient one in which they dwell...

 

CaliforniaTide

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I loved reading both Woodard's and Webb's books. My family's history on my dad's side is interesting, in terms of the paths they have taken. My grandfather was born in Arkansas. His ancestors came from the UK (wasn't the UK then though) and arrived in North Carolina, and ended up fighting for the good guys in the American Revolution. Moved to Florida, traversed across Alabama to present-day Arkansas. During the Great Depression, they moved to the Central Valley (much like The Grapes of Wrath). My grandfather met my grandmother at San Jose State. Grandmother was born/raised in Hawaii (saw Pearl Harbor occur while walking to Sunday School), and her family had originally come straight from St. Andrews with a pit stop in Illinois.

Being the history guy in the family, I will eventually take over the genealogical research. I have a nagging suspicion that we have some German and/or French in there somewhere.