This should not compare to going to a bowl game. We are obligated by the SEC to go to one of the bowls with an SEC tie in if invited, in return all 12 schools get a share of the bowl proceeds. In contrast we would have had to spend money to host a game in a trny that is an experiment at best. I also agree with the idea that we should demand more from our BBall program, if they want to play in the postseason next year then work hard and EARN a bid to one of the big two. If these players had half a heart they would refuse to play in anything less than the NCAA's, setting the standard for future Tide teams that anything less is unacceptable by their standards, not just the standards we set as fans. This CBI looks like another opportunity for an average coach like CMG to claim trips to the post season on their resume. I for one would like to see CMG be a little more like billy the kid and demand more from these guys, make 'em want it. Going to the CBI would be like being rewarded for underachieving all year. Ridiculous argument.
Ideas/predictions for CBI (?) or NIT
- Thread starter WPtider
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This is another excellent point. It also ties in with my earlier point: even a crappy bowl game makes $$ for the Athletic Department, gets televised nationally (thus exposure for UA).
The players "voted" not to play hard for over a month's worth of games in the SEC regular season. I am, quite frankly, not interested in what the players want at this point.
As they watch 113 other teams play postseason basketball, maybe they will decide to play with intensity and purpose next season, when Ron Steele makes his much-heralded return to the court.
My question was is it really about the money? No one answered it though. The excuse is that the players didn't earn a post season, yet when you compare it to similar situations in football then the excuse goes back to money. Which is it? Is it money or is it to punish the players and coach? If it's money then I don't really want to hear any of the other crap because it comes down to lack of financial support.
By the way, here's the teams that can afford to go to this apparently incredibly expensive tournament:
Richmond at Virginia - 7 p.m.
Rider at Old Dominion - 7 p.m.
Brown at Ohio - 7 p.m.
Houston at Nevada - 9 p.m.
Cincinnati at Bradley - 7 p.m.
Miami (Ohio) at Tulsa - 8 p.m.
Valparaiso at Washington - 9 p.m.
Utah at UTEP - 9 p.m.
I notice two things about this list. There are some small schools on the list. Rider is a private school with 5,000 students yet they can afford such a lavish expense (note the sarcasm). On the other hand, you see some traditionally good teams such as Cincinnati and Utah.
There's a reason they have been places Alabama has never been and part of that is because they are committed to their teams. Alabama could have gone, competed, perhaps even won and in the least gained more experience. They could have shown they care about the team and don't quit on the players (seniors included). You can never criticize the young men for doing something the administration is unwilling to do.
You had better believe some of the schools on this list will return to national prominence and continue to achieve things that Alabama never has. I count three teams on that list that have won national championships. They could "sink" to the level of this tournament, yet we are to believe that it is somehow beneath Alabama? Alabama has chosen it's place in basketball, I just don't expect to hear any complaining in the future because it seems most people support this half hearted attempt at competing in basketball.
KrAzY3,
There is a distinction between THIS particular collection of players and the PROGRAM as a whole. I'm sure it would make the current players feel warm and fuzzy to get to keep playing; it would spare them the embarrassment of sitting at home while their contemporaries play ball. However, I'm of the opinion that the AD bought these players a Christmas trip to Las Vegas and paid cupcakes like Troy, Belmont, SE Louisiana, Southern Miss, Nicholls State, [Wofford, UT Pan American as part of the LAs Vegas deal], and Chicago State to come to Coleman to play because that's who Gottfried wanted/could get to come play. The Belmont story needs no repeating. However -- and this is a huge point -- the remaining cupcake teams accounted for 7 of Alabama's 16 regular-season victories. When Georgia couldn't beat ANYBODY in January, they still managed to beat Alabama.
I hate it for Mychal Riley that he missed that shot, but I hate it more for him that he and his teammates decided to sleepwalk through a navigable schedule with a mediocre record built on beating bad mid-majors in Tuscaloosa.
I halfway think your statement about the message being sent to the fans and players is correct, and I approve of it. Players: Alabama isn't going to reward you for a poor season. That's the best thing for the PROGRAM in the long run.
By the way, are you crying about Billy Donovan kicking his players out of the plush practice facility? I'll bet that hurts their feelings. I wonder how badly that will damage his program. I'll bet nobody will want to go play for him now.
There is a distinction between THIS particular collection of players and the PROGRAM as a whole. I'm sure it would make the current players feel warm and fuzzy to get to keep playing; it would spare them the embarrassment of sitting at home while their contemporaries play ball. However, I'm of the opinion that the AD bought these players a Christmas trip to Las Vegas and paid cupcakes like Troy, Belmont, SE Louisiana, Southern Miss, Nicholls State, [Wofford, UT Pan American as part of the LAs Vegas deal], and Chicago State to come to Coleman to play because that's who Gottfried wanted/could get to come play. The Belmont story needs no repeating. However -- and this is a huge point -- the remaining cupcake teams accounted for 7 of Alabama's 16 regular-season victories. When Georgia couldn't beat ANYBODY in January, they still managed to beat Alabama.
I hate it for Mychal Riley that he missed that shot, but I hate it more for him that he and his teammates decided to sleepwalk through a navigable schedule with a mediocre record built on beating bad mid-majors in Tuscaloosa.
I halfway think your statement about the message being sent to the fans and players is correct, and I approve of it. Players: Alabama isn't going to reward you for a poor season. That's the best thing for the PROGRAM in the long run.
By the way, are you crying about Billy Donovan kicking his players out of the plush practice facility? I'll bet that hurts their feelings. I wonder how badly that will damage his program. I'll bet nobody will want to go play for him now.
Looking at the teams in the CBI, I don't see how that will last longer than this year. That is the lousiest tournament I've ever seen. I do think it is good for the small schools like Rider because they rarely get a chance for postseason play. But for a school like Virginia (which has slipped drastically as a basketball program) it ought to be an embarrassment.
If he kicked them out of the NIT tournament then you'd have a similar situation. I would have no problem with MG doing things to motivate the players short of telling them to stay home. That's a extreme measure and it's virtually impossible to accomplish anything when you do nothing.By the way, are you crying about Billy Donovan kicking his players out of the plush practice facility? I'll bet that hurts their feelings. I wonder how badly that will damage his program. I'll bet nobody will want to go play for him now.
I'm not a fan of Donovan but he did nothing at all to diminish the ability of the program to compete. If the Alabama team wasn't allowed to wear 'Bama gear or something like that then I would see the logic in it as a motivational tool. Massive difference between that and saying just stay home though. No comparison...
Like I said you have 3 teams with NCs on that list and off the top of my head 5 with final four appearances. For most of those teams being there is nothing to be proud of, but a majority of them are strong basketball programs and can be expected to compete at a higher level in the future. The biggest embarrassment is not being there at all.
Alabama was in a much more embarrassing tournament earlier this season. I have to be in agreement on the pointlessness of that whole thing. They didn't play a single team with a winning record in the whole mess. So for the record the Las Vegas Classic was far worse. However, big difference between seeking out something like that and declining your one chance to play. Alabama could have easily scheduled real competition instead of that farce and to be clear the CBI is a much better field. In the least the CBI has some top 100 RPI teams and the like. My main complaint is turning down your only chance to play. I'm not happy with the regular season schedule and the idea that they chose to spend money on some of those joke games over what would in fact have been a competitive tournament against some solid teams is hard for me to fathom.
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I keep pitching 'em and you keep missin' 'em.
My point is that you CANNOT use your "bad bowl" analogy. UA is obligated as a member of the SEC to accept a bowl bid in football, and UA has a choice to accept NIT/CBI in basketball. It's apples and oranges. So, UA NEVER has to pay to reward a "bad" football season. IF Alabama is one selected to one of the 30-some-odd bowls, they go, period. There have been years in which I thought UA shouldn't get a bowl as a reward for a 6-6 season, but Indy called and we went to Shreveport. UA didn't, however, pay to get an extra game.
UA basketball doesn't deserve another minute of play this season, in my opinion. You keep talking about the players, and I keep bringing up the fact that the players didn't have enough pride to play hard, to beat Belmont at home, or to take care of SEC business at home. They didn't play defense. They didn't rebound. They lollygagged on offense. And many, many people who watched the games with a critical eye will agree with me.
So, to address your questions again: (1) the poor season doesn't deserve a reward, and (2) the poor season damn sure doesn't rate a "bought" reward. It's not an either-or situation; it's a damn-straight both at the same time situation: they didn't earn it, and Mal Moore shouldn't buy it for them, regardless of how much some "fans" whine about inequality. As I said before, that inequality is a fact of life at Alabama. Don't you think if UNC were sitting at 17-16 it would get in the NIT? Probably so. Would a very mediocre 6-6 UNC football team get an Indy Bowl-type bid? Probably not. It's the fact of life of being the #2 sport at a power school.
How about this: beat Belmont at home in November, beat a bad Georgia team on the road in January, and a bad Auburn team at Auburn in February, and we're not having this conversation; we'd probably be talking about the NIT.
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Perfect comparison. He's doing things that might hurt their feelings and might affect recruiting. That was one of your earlier arguments against this decision by UA. Now you're crawfishing on it. The program is bigger than any 1 (or 15) players. If they wanted to play in the postseason, they should have handled their business. Even with Title IX, the UA AD is not a welfare state.
And...the biggest point...whether you like it or not, the decision is made and Alabama is staying home. It's a lesson that might do all of them (coaches included) some good.
I started this basketball season excited. Even the loss to Belmont had me thinking (that'll hurt their pride and get them going.....WRONG). When SEC play started, my excitement waned, but the masochist in me made me watch every game I could catch, and my eternal optimism had me seeing wins in all of their road losses right up to the last minute. After the last post-tornado three rimmed out, I was ready for this season to be over; and I don't think even I had enough left in the tank to watch any more. I would rather settle for the three game season that ended 2-1 in the last two weeks. It's time to put it to sleep and wait for next year.
PS. For those who think the University "OWES" these players the opportunity to play on, I say these players OWE us around 50 hours time that we wasted watching them sleep through games this year while hoping they would wake up. Too little too late.
PS. For those who think the University "OWES" these players the opportunity to play on, I say these players OWE us around 50 hours time that we wasted watching them sleep through games this year while hoping they would wake up. Too little too late.
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The argument that Alabama is just a football school is not a very strong one to be honest. While factual it doesn't justify not competing, especially given some of the threads here asking when the team will turn the corner. If you want to become like Florida for example you have to show everyone you are willing to do what it takes. Alabama did that in football, they went out and paid for Saban and did what ever they could to show people they WOULD compete in football. Even a fraction of that devotion to the basketball team would send the same message. I'd have to answer a question like this to a recruit. "Well you see son, we just don't really care about basketball that much". I can't blame them for going to another school or leaving early under those circumstance.
Secondly, I will reiterate that this (to me) is not a performance issue. It is a commitment issue. I don't think most of the teams on the list are happy to be there. But they are not going to give up on their season either. As I said several of those teams have accomplished more than Alabama ever has and the reason is that commitment to the program. Even if they have a underachieving team and a questionable coach they're not going to stay home and just give up.
I'm sure you are a great guy but I think your reality is selective. Perfect comparison? That's like comparing getting fired to being sent home early. Florida still has a season, Alabama does not. Very poor comparison. If they had chosen a motivation tool like Donovan did I'd have no complaint at all. Does Saban hurt recruiting when he disciplines players? I don't think so, but if Alabama came out and said they were not going to play in a bowl game for what ever convoluted reason you better believe it would hurt the team. When the supposed motivation tool (and I don't believe it is that, I think it's just being cheap) is that the season is over I think no one will gain anything from it. Except for the teams that get to recruit against Alabama...
Check back in a few years and we'll see if Alabama has finally lived up to their potential. I don't think anything will have changed though, it isn't just the coach and players it's the entire program. It wasn't any different under other coaches. It hasn't been different under other groups of players. You can't say your team really isn't that important and argue over Saban's salary for a few days as being too lavish a expense and expect anything great out of them.
I've never been what you would call a true fan of basketball in general, at least not to the degree of football. I am though a fan though of most all sports programs from The University of Alabama. With the Tide not in the tourneys, and no other team holding my interest, I'm going to be equally absent from the March Madness contest.
In my mind basketball season is over. See you on the other boards.
:cheers2:
In my mind basketball season is over. See you on the other boards.
:cheers2:
Actually, Hobbs was not fired until after the 50 point blowout at Auburn in '98. In '97, Hobbs said that we declined the invitation to the NIT because he needed to use that time to recruit.
The arrest part is correct. That was Anton Reese.
Krazy, unfortunately, practice does not make perfect; only perfect practice makes perfect.
CMG has been here now 11 years. He has a losing record in the SEC over his tenure. The Elite 8 team that he constantly mentions was 17-13 going into the tournament and was likely one of the last few in. The last couple years have been more horrid than the others.
His teams, save the year TR Dunn was here, make halfhearted efforts at best on defense, and we are absolutely dependent on the 3-point shot for our offense. I'm glad he did it, but how do you think the last 3 games go if Riley does not go out of his mind from 3? We're likely not having this discussion.
This is a team that runs somebody like Richard Hendrix out on the floor and we have the most success getting him the ball 17 feet from the basket. He is unstoppable down low (when he wants to be, and when CMG decides to get his attention), and we have long stretches where we cannot or do not get him the ball on the block. Think that has something to do with coaching?
How many times do we allow Rico Pickett to lollygag around bringing the ball up the floor, getting it over half court with about 25 seconds left on the clock, then dribble around for a few more seconds before yet another possession ends with 5'10" Brandon Hollinger jacking a 3 from 25 feet? Think that has something to do with coaching?
How many times do we fail to make Florida field the ball on inbounds plays late in a game where we desperatley needed the clock to run out, instead allowing them to roll the ball to halfcourt without even token resistance to make them use clock? Think that is coaching?
I've got more, but that's enough for now. As for the UA's commitment to the program, how's $30 million in renovations to Coleman, for which they have been repaid with two seasons that can charitable be described as "turd in the swimming pool" level? Maybe you don't know this, but it is common knowledge around here that CMG is constantly making demands about what he needs to be competitive, when the biggest thing he needs to be competitive is to get off his rear end and coach up some basketball players.
CMG has been here now 11 years. He has a losing record in the SEC over his tenure. The Elite 8 team that he constantly mentions was 17-13 going into the tournament and was likely one of the last few in. The last couple years have been more horrid than the others.
His teams, save the year TR Dunn was here, make halfhearted efforts at best on defense, and we are absolutely dependent on the 3-point shot for our offense. I'm glad he did it, but how do you think the last 3 games go if Riley does not go out of his mind from 3? We're likely not having this discussion.
This is a team that runs somebody like Richard Hendrix out on the floor and we have the most success getting him the ball 17 feet from the basket. He is unstoppable down low (when he wants to be, and when CMG decides to get his attention), and we have long stretches where we cannot or do not get him the ball on the block. Think that has something to do with coaching?
How many times do we allow Rico Pickett to lollygag around bringing the ball up the floor, getting it over half court with about 25 seconds left on the clock, then dribble around for a few more seconds before yet another possession ends with 5'10" Brandon Hollinger jacking a 3 from 25 feet? Think that has something to do with coaching?
How many times do we fail to make Florida field the ball on inbounds plays late in a game where we desperatley needed the clock to run out, instead allowing them to roll the ball to halfcourt without even token resistance to make them use clock? Think that is coaching?
I've got more, but that's enough for now. As for the UA's commitment to the program, how's $30 million in renovations to Coleman, for which they have been repaid with two seasons that can charitable be described as "turd in the swimming pool" level? Maybe you don't know this, but it is common knowledge around here that CMG is constantly making demands about what he needs to be competitive, when the biggest thing he needs to be competitive is to get off his rear end and coach up some basketball players.
Check back next year and the CBI will probably not be there. CBI isn't on the same level as the independence bowl, which was explained quite handily by SD. The second-teir bowls we attended came from an invitation that didn't cost us money. The second-teir of College basketball is the NIT, and we haven't turned down an invitation to the NIT in the last decade. This CBI is just another money-making venture, and 3 D1 teams that have the basketball history choose to attend them because they've got a much greater basketball fanbase than the UofA, and those fans are willing to travel to support their team. Even if we hosted a regional CBI game, we couldn't fill the coliseum. The seating capacity for Coleman Coliseum is 15,316 and we averaged 11,348 this year.
ATTENDANCE
This includes the sold out "BIG" games, which says that the lesser games (which accounted for most of their wins) were played to a half empty coliseum. The average attendance for football games; OTOH, was 92,138 and the capacity for BDS is 92138.
ATTENDANCE
The Alabama football fans travel to all of their away games, as well, but not the basketball fans. This is a football first school, and there is nothing wrong with that.
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Okay, let's say we had 11,348 attend this game. In fact, I will be conservative and say that 9,164 fans attend this game. That is the same amount of fans that attended the Arky game, when many fans still thought that the team wasn't putting forth an effort. Alabama charged $8/$12 for non-conference games. I will again be conservative and say that the ticket office would charge an average of $8 per person.
That is
8 x 9164 = $73,312
We would recouped our $60,000 EASILY.
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While that was the "announced" crowd at the Arkansas game, many in the media that covered that game estimated that only about 4000 to 5000 actually showed up. It looked as if only about 3000 to 4000 only went to the Vandy game (weather could have been a factor). If the CBI matched us up with Ohio or Valparaiso, then I would think that only 3000-4000 (a generous estimate IMO) would actually buy tickets. Then it would be likely that UA would lose money for this game.
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